Vertical stringing

[singleshotbuff]

Gentlemen,

I'm shooting a Mosin M44, 7.62X54R. Using Jword 180gr RN bullets (because I don't have a proper boolit mold for it yet) and a healthy max charge of IMR-4320. Trying to develop a deer load.

From sandbags at 50 yds, it will group 3 shots into a little over 2". However there is always 2 shots almost touching, less than 3/4" apart horizontally, and 1 shot about 2" low. Still less than 1" horizontal spread for the entire group. I am wondering what is causing this vertical stringing. My thoughts are;

1. My eyes and the iron sights do not mesh very well. Quite probable to me since I wear contacts.

2. Forend pressure pushing on the barrel. I took the upper handguard off, but the forend still goes almost to the muzzle (military stock).

3. Bedding.

4. I also suppose my bag technique could be to blame with iron sights, but I do not have this vertical stringing with my other iron sighted milsurps.

I know that a 2" group from this gun is acceptable, but I'd like to eliminate this vertical stringing if possible. I'm kinda leaning towards cause #s 1 & 2.

Any thoughts/experiences/input?

Thanks.

SSB

[felix]

Your max charge of that powder speed, if truly around 50K cup, should not be vertical stringing. Let's find a young shooter in the neighborhood before altering the gun. In other words, let's first make sure it is not you. ... felix

[singleshotbuff]

Felix,

Could be me, but my Mauser and other iron sight guns do not string vetically so I'm not sure. Any thoughts on trying upward pressure at the forend tip?

SSB

[felix]

SSB, no tellin' what would improve your gun/load. I would try anything that is not permanent at least once, maybe twice, on different days. ... felix

[Four Fingers of Death]

Do you hold your hand between the rifle and the front bag? I find that is a better arangement for milsups and hunting rifles. Also, do you know a classy shot at the range? I always try someone else to factor me out of the equation (although you don't seem to have a problem with the other rifles). Mick.

[Bass Ackward]

I am wondering what is causing this vertical stringing. My thoughts are;

1. My eyes and the iron sights do not mesh very well. Quite probable to me since I wear contacts.

2. Forend pressure pushing on the barrel. I took the upper handguard off, but the forend still goes almost to the muzzle (military stock).

3. Bedding.

4. I also suppose my bag technique could be to blame with iron sights, but I do not have this vertical stringing with my other iron sighted milsurps.

Any thoughts/experiences/input?

Thanks.

SSB


SSB,

You can have many possibilities And fortunately you can eliminate some of them too if you will think about them. Since you shoot other arms, your results should be comparable. For #2, you can move the stock in a different place in the rest for each shot. If things don't change, it ain't that. That leaves #3 as the only possibility (that you mention) Is the gun moving in the stock? Hints can be seen from compression of the wood if you look close enough. Could be, but I doubt it.

I would most likely add coppering to the list. Much harder to determine without a scope. I had a gun three weeks ago that Sweets had no effect on for 30 minutes of cleaning. None. I was ready to give up as it being clean. All patches came out clear as if there was no copper. When it finally started to break, patches looked like denim and it took 3 days of cleaning to get it all out.

[Ivantherussian03]

I always thought and my buddy told me this older military rifle are famous and have tendency to drift vertically. It is one of the flaws the sight design. My mauser did it until I placed a peep sight on it.Good Luck:Fire:

[singleshotbuff]

Gentlemen,

I figured it out (I think). I placed my hand under the forend instead of resting the forend directly on the sandbag. I have been rewarded with sub 1.5" groups so far today. This is all I can expect from this old warhorse, considering the condition of the barrel and my eyes with iron sights.

Mick,

I'd love to let another shooter try it at the range, but my range is my front yard (I live in the middle of 508 acres) and I'm the only one shooting LOL.

SSB

[Ricochet]

I've been shooting groups with my Persian Mauser with 8mm Max boolits that are less than an inch horizontally, but strung about 2 1/2" vertically at best. I'm blaming it on my eyes and those Mauser sights. I have a hard time judging their alignment vertically. Especially as the light fades, when the vertical stringing gets worse.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Gentlemen,

I figured it out (I think). I placed my hand under the forend instead of resting the forend directly on the sandbag. I have been rewarded with sub 1.5" groups so far today. This is all I can expect from this old warhorse, considering the condition of the barrel and my eyes with iron sights.

Mick,

I'd love to let another shooter try it at the range, but my range is my front yard (I live in the middle of 508 acres) and I'm the only one shooting LOL.

SSB

I'll have to come visit :-D

Richochet, we fit Lee Enfield foresight blades to our Mausers, distinctive blede really helps. I just glaze over at the thougth ot those barleycorn sights!

[Ricochet]

That sounds like a good idea. I just can't reliably see where the tip of that Mauser sight is.

[Linstrum]

Yup, an Enfield blade would improve sighting. My Yugo 24/47, 24/52c and WW2 German K98k all have a groove cut into the wood to squint down. As stated, Mosins are not much better. The two best sights I have used are the Garand and the similar French MAS 36. I don't know if it is by design or serendipity, but the Garand can be aimed by using the rear aperture disc as a sight post and the two front wings as another sighting post to aim the rifle with some accuracy in light too dim to use the peep sight, although the peep sight works in light too dim to use the Mosin and Mauser sights. Your not going to win the Palma Match using it that way, but in wartime it probably saved more than a few Garand-equipped U.S. ground pounders' lives where the Garand shooter was able to pull a bead and accurately return fire on a Mauser-equipped soldier attempting to shoot in low light conditions. That, plus being semi-auto with an 8-round en bloc clip makes a big difference.

[Maven]

All, I had problems with the barleycorn when my eyes were good! KCSO sent me a front sight from the Swedish Mauser that I quickly installed on my Arg. Mauser and couldn't be more pleased with it. What I'm suggesting is to use the Swe. Mau. sight since it's practically a tap out-tap in installation if you can't obtain the Enfield blade.

[Ivantherussian03]

Wow, interesting comment on U.S. Infrantry soldier in WWII. I never would have guessed the differences were so great between the garand and mauser.