starting fluid

[peerlesscowboy]

Has anybody used starting fluid to degrease new moulds? Ya' know, that stuff that comes in aerosol cans that's made for starting reluctant diesel engines when it's cold.
Got a couple of new RCBS moulds in the mail yesterday, wiped 'em dry and thinking it'd be good to squirt 'em down with starting fluid to remove any last vestages of oil?

John C. Saubak

[onondaga]

YUCK! Pretty stinky and way low flash point. Hot water and dish detergent works fine. Mean Green works great too, then a good HOT rinse and dry before you lube.
Gary

[pdawg_shooter]

Starting fluid, (ether) is a great degreeser. However it is so inflammable as to be extremely dangerous to use.

[gray wolf]

Get to close to it and you will take a little nap = ZZZZZzzzzzzzz

[JSnover]

You can use it but it's pretty toxic stuff, especially if it's exposed to heat. Another member had a bad experience a few months back. Use it outdoors and make sure the mold is dry before you go near the pot

[woodyubet]

I use Carburator cleaner or Brake cleaner. Both dry almost instantly.

[stubshaft]

Kroil

[geargnasher]

Most carb cleaners contain a light lubricating oil that is left behind as a residue to keep throttle and choke linkages from seizing, and also to provide a measure of corrosion resistance to the clean aluminum alloy surfaces of carbs.

Starting fluids contain a valve and upper-cylinder lubricant to prevent galling when dry-starting diesels.

As we know, oils in our mould cavities are undesireable. Use Brake cleaner or water-based detergent cleansers.

Gear

[lwknight]

The stuff we get now days is not even ether. Either .
When I was a kid , my dad sold used cars and ether was what he used to clean the nicotine haze
off the windshields. It worked better than anything else.
I tried it recently and it was a no-go. The new stuff just don't cut it.

[geargnasher]

If you get the right brand, K&W IIRC is one of the better ones, it will contain up to 50% ether. It's the other 50%+ that's the rub. I wish the EPA hadn't banned and limited raw hydrocarbon emisisons so much, right now I'm really missing the Global Warming!!!!!

Gear

[btroj]

You Texas boys whine when it gets below 50. I can send you a few 5 below nights if you want, we seem to have plenty this year.

As for mold cleaning, I like good old Comet, hot water and a toothbrush. Seems to work pretty darn well. I also find that many moulds benefit from a cleaning again after the first use. Seems the hearing of the mould brings out more oil. I view the first casting with a new mould as a break in anymore.

Brad

[dragonrider]

Dish soap, hot water, toothbrush is all you need.

[Bret4207]

Yes, I do. I use it for lots of stuff you aren't supposed to.

[JIMinPHX]

The last I checked, which was a while ago, starting fluid was a mixture of ethyl ether & propane.

To get an ether molecule, you basically slam together two alcohol molecules & remove 1 water molecule. That should give you a pretty good idea of what ether's properties are. It is a much stronger solvent than alcohol is & it is much more flammable than alcohol is. It also evaporates very quickly.

I believe that the propane was added to make the ether unattractive to sniff. Ethyl ether is the same stuff that used to be used for anesthesia many years ago. Some thieves have been known to spray old fashioned (100% straight ether) starting fluid into the vents of coffin sleepers on trucks at truck stops, then break in & rob the occupant. Apparently, that doesn't work so well with the modern mix. I think that propane is just plain toxic, but I'm not completely sure about that. I am sure that it has an undesirable effect when inhaled. I'm just not sure how bad that effect is.

Ether will dissolve grease & grime very well, but you need to move quickly to wipe up the dissolved mess before the ether evaporates & leaves the crud behind, now stuck worse than it was to begin with.

As has been said before, there is the flammability issue to consider too. That stuff will start an engine that did not start from gasoline alone. That should put the fire risk into perspective pretty well.

[richbug]

Yes, I do. I use it for lots of stuff you aren't supposed to.


Great all purpose solvent. I have started carrying a can in my range bag for cleaning my AR 22 conversion kit.

Usual caveats apply, some brands have more ether than others(Pyroil/Valvoline is a good one). Use it outside.

[DIRT Farmer]

Most old tractors have a can or 3 in the tool box. Great stuff and it also can be used to get a cold engine to start, I just used it for that today. Great for getting tubless ag tires to pop out to the rim to air them up just set the loader bucket on the rim to keep them in place or leave it on the hub, drying out distrubitor caps and as a propellant on high grade tater guns. Also used in meth production, you might get your picture taken if you buy to many cans.

Yes I have used it to clean moulds, the propane is the propelant to make it spray. Cold propane sucks as a propelant so you have to heat the can on the defroster to get it to spray.

[bumpo628]

Can you use rubbing alcohol?

[btroj]

Rubbing alcohol is not a great degreasing solvent. Too polar. Soap and water will do better than alcohol.
I like Comet as I can make a thick paste out of it and let it sit on the mold for a few minutes to an hour. Gives it time to soak up all the oil and pull some out of the metal. It is also cheap and safe.

Brad

[rockrat]

I use Berryman B-12 Chemtool. It has acetone, ether, alcohol, and mekp. Use it outside and it doesn't leave any oily residue.

[theperfessor]

To clean a new mold I use acetone first and soap and water afterwards. Buy more than one or two cans around here and people will think you're setting up a meth lab. I don't need that grief when other things work better.

[randyrat]

All I can think of when someone says starting fluid "BOOM"

[geargnasher]

All I can think of when someone says starting fluid "BOOM"

LOL. You know what I think of? The angry scream of a 6-71 Detroit two-stroke roaring to life.

Rockrat, you know that, except for the MEK, B-12 has the same ingredients as Rain-X?

Gear

[nanuk]

..... I believe that the propane was added to make the ether unattractive to sniff. ..... I think that propane is just plain toxic, but I'm not completely sure about that. I am sure that it has an undesirable effect when inhaled. I'm just not sure how bad that effect is.


I buy that stuff by the case. multiple uses. degreases good, leave very little if any residue, but some do have lube in them to save the engines.

I think if it says it is OK with a gas engine, it will contain lube. If for Desiel only, then it will be pretty much lube free

as for propane as an inhalent? up here, Propane is becoming the inhalent of choice. easy to get, relatively inexpensive and won't coat the lungs with oil like other stuff can.

Not uncommon to find dead bodies near a cut valve on a large tank, as asphyxiation is a risk.

it is the hypoxia/asphyxiation that gives the euphoric high.
(don't ask...... )

other than that I think propane is pretty harmless. You will die from lack of O2 before you die from propane.

[peerlesscowboy]

Looked on the can, ingredients; Heptane, Diethyl Ether & Carbon Dioxide.

John C. Saubak

[GLL]

I agree with theperfessor and use acetone followed by hot water and Dawn !

I found that starting fluid I have is a mixture of heptane and diethyl either. It works well but straight acetone is much better.

Jerry

[mpmarty]

Tried straight ether. Not so good. Got it from a lab. Comet and brush work much better.

[JIMinPHX]

LOL. You know what I think of? The angry scream of a 6-71 Detroit two-stroke roaring to life.


Detroit Diesels are real screaming beasts just going down the road. Just hope that you never accidentally start one up spinning the wrong way. That's when the death scream starts. It's extra brutal.

The last Detroiter that I fooled with (318?) had an ether bottle built right in. It looked like a propane bottle from a blow torch, but it was starting fluid. There was a lever on the dash board of the tractor (old Dodge C-cab), right next to the front axle air brake disconnect that would let you give her a squirt from the comfort of the driver's seat.

[randyrat]

LOL. You know what I think of? The angry scream of a 6-71 Detroit two-stroke roaring to life.

Rockrat, you know that, except for the MEK, B-12 has the same ingredients as Rain-X?

Gear BTW what is in "Rain-X" anyway?

[randyrat]

I got a free hair cut one time using Starting fluid in a big Ol 780 Holly carb when it back fired in my face. I haven't used it since. BOOM:oops: Trimmed my eye brows also.

[reloader28]

I didnt have very good luck with rubbing alcohol. Didnt seem to work that good.

Boiling takes too long and I didnt like that. Didnt work that great anyway.

Ether worked OK for me as long as I do it outside, but still wasnt that good.

The wife has something called GOO GONE spray gel. Its orange and comes in a clear squirt bottle. You can clean anything. This stuff works really good. Squirt it down and toothbrush the mold half for about 30 seconds or so, rinse and do it again. I do this 3 (maybe 4) times per mold half. Total of about 1 1/2 - 2 minutes per half, 3 - 4 minutes per mold.

Take it out, heat it up and it usually is throwing perfect boolits as soon as its up to temp. I would recommend it.

[nanuk]

Detroit Diesels are real screaming beasts just going down the road. Just hope that you never accidentally start one up spinning the wrong way. That's when the death scream starts. It's extra brutal.

The last Detroiter that I fooled with (318?) had an ether bottle built right in. It looked like a propane bottle from a blow torch, but it was starting fluid. There was a lever on the dash board of the tractor (old Dodge C-cab), right next to the front axle air brake disconnect that would let you give her a squirt from the comfort of the driver's seat.


I work with a guy who told me about them running backwards. some old tractors will do that also, if you stall them going uphill and they roll backwards while engaged.

at the airport I work at, a couple of the heavy equipment has the ether setup you describe. I have also seen retrofits to tractors on the intake.
the joys of living in cooler climates

[JIMinPHX]

When they run backwards, they suck the oil out of the pan & run on that, so shutting off the diesel fuel supply doesn't shut them down. If you don't manage to shut them down some other way, they will run away until they suck the pan dry & will often seize or blow apart from high RPMs if you let them do that. Running a tractor with a DD is not for the faint of heart.

[Freightman]

I have been out of the freight business a long time 18 years but here is how I was told to get the most out of a Detroit. Get up in the morning , pick a fight with the wife, slam finger in the car door, then drive the D-D mad all day.

[Mumblypeg]

I have been out of the freight business a long time 18 years but here is how I was told to get the most out of a Detroit. Get up in the morning , pick a fight with the wife, slam finger in the car door, then drive the D-D mad all day.

That explains why those guys drive like that... I never knew.;)

[dodgyrog]

I use Methanol - soak the mould for 1/2 hour then let it dry completely.
Watch out - this stuff is EXTREMELY flammable and the flame cannot be seen.

[randyrat]

Here we go another "BOOM"

[LAH]

I use starting fluid & have for 10 years. Works great & never one problem. It can be dangerous though.

[bigjake]

Good old mineral spirits (paint thinner) get a little paint brush or those cheap acid brushes you can get at horror freight, like 3.99 for 25 or something.
just scrub mold out and with liberal spirits, wipe out excess, then preheat
It will drop them boolits wonderfully

[Ole]

I have an old can of graffiti remover that i've used to degrease most of my molds.

I bought it for another reason (getting paint off my alley wall), but it's served me well in de-greasing bullet molds. :mrgreen:

I would much rather spray it on new bullet molds than some douchebag's alley art.

[ricksplace]

Hot tap water, old toothbrush and soap. Give it a good scrubbing, and rinse well under hot tap water. The blocks will heat up enough from the hot water they will evaporate the water off and be bone dry in about a minute.

[starmac]

All the old 2 stroke detroit diesels had an emergency kill to shut the air off, even oil will not burn with no air.

[leadman]

There is an emergency shut-off, if it works. Back in Michigan most of the cables were rusted up.

I use Purple Power soap bought from Wally World. About $12 or $14 for 2 1/2 gallons. Just don't leave it long on aluminum as it will etch it. Works great for removing carbon fouling on or in guns. It will remove anodized finishes so be careful.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I used starting fluid in those aerosol cans for 2 years when I was working as an Emergency Road Tech.

One day I had a reluctant older car that would not start. I sprayed some starting fluid into the carb and tried again. It sputtered but died. Tried again.

The third time was the charm. It backfired through the carb and started a fire on top of the engine. There was enough old engine oil and grease to keep it going and this car was gonna burn down to the ground unless I did something fast.

I kept an old wool blanket in a bucket of water in the back of the truck whenever I used the starting fluid. I reached down and grabbed the blanket and spead it over the entire engine compartment and the fire was snuffed out.

I had to replace a plastic fitting on the gas line but other than scorch marks the engine was ok. The whole incident took less than 30 seconds once the backfire happened.

That stuff is dangerous and I would not use it to clean a mold. I use very hot water and Dawn with a toothbrush.

[Mal Paso]

I use Chemtool B12 ( outside ) on molds and save the starting fluid for the 50 mm Potato Cannon.

[reloader28]

Crash, thats funny. Sad but funny. Way off topic here, but it reminded me.

A few years ago I was working on my stock car. I dont remember the circumstances and I wasnt using starting fluid, but when I jumped in to test fire the engine it backfired once and started up.

The backfire blew off the fuel line somehow and was pumping race fuel all over the engine compartment cause it was running. I said "DARN" and managed to turn off the main battery switch and calmly crawled out. Another guy grabbed a fire extinguisher and got the fire out, .......then out again.

We ended up getting a new carb, distributer cap, hoses and rewiring everything before I could get back to the track. The things we do for fun.[smilie=l::bigsmyl2:

[casterofboolits]

Just to degrease moulds I use Dawn dish washing detergent with a tooth brush and rinse with hot tap water and blot dry with a paper towel. The BF is also good for cleaning light surface rust from iron moulds.

I am in the process of cleaning some moulds I accquired in trades that are heavily coated with mould prep. For that Bartender's Friend and tooth brush work great. After cleaning the mould prep off, I use the Dawn to remove the residue.

[Three44s]

Starting fluid has a bit of oil in it.

Brake cleaner is free of oil so that's what I use for an immediate clean.


Three 44s

[geargnasher]

Use Right Guard Sport aeresol for the produce launcher, Dawn and/or brake cleaner for moulds, and save the starting fluid for mounting tires, if you can get some with enough ether to have the suds to do it. Last weekend I rolled another tire off my Bobcat, had a terrible time getting the appropriate "whooOOOMP" to reseat the tire. %^$#@$% 16.5" tapered-seat wheels! My kingdom for some 100% ether spray!

Oh, and if you want to start a two-stroke Detroit on a cold morning, use a half-full can of ether and an icepick. Puncture the can, quickly toss it in the air filter box, and hit the start switch. Also a good way to blow yourself or the engine up if you don't do it just right.

Gear

[nanuk]

gear, can you explain your process for reseating the bead?

[reloader28]

Nanuk
He means that you squirt a shot of ether into the tire. Throw a match on it or wave a torch at it and hopefully, if you got enough ether in there, it does the proper whooOOOmp like Gear said and the bead is blown back onto the rim. You need to hit the valve stem immediately with the air hose to keep it there and fill the tire. Sometimes its the only way to get a tire bead to seat. Especially on equipment.

Its kind of a controlled explosion. If it dont work, make sure the fire is out and squirt in a bigger dose. Sometimes we've had to do it 5 or 6 times and on the second can of ether to make it work. Fun, but gets your heart pumping. Usually works great.

[nanuk]

reloader28: that is what I thought he was doing. it makes sense in a semi dangerous way if you're not careful. But I can certainly see the value of it.

all my bigger stuff is tubed, but I did have to fight with a 16.5 and an heavy tire once. not like a bobcat, but heavy enough for me.

[geargnasher]

Don't try this at home, Kids! but here's how I use this old trick to reseat the tire beads after taking the weight off the tire, removing the valve core, cleaning the bead area of the tire and wheel, and getting flammable stuff like dry grass out of the way, and donning gloves and a face shield, etc: Spray starting fluid at the crack between the tire and wheel at point-blank range to get the stuff inside the tire, I go all the way around the rim quickly, no more than two seconds of spray in the tire, then "lead off" from the tire five or six feet with the spray to leave a vapor trail away from the tire (like you did with black powder when you were a kid!), then throw a match at it or use the Bic ligher/starting fluid can like a flamethrower to light the trail. If it doesn't blow the bead on the first try, you have to evacuate the tire and get fresh oxygen in there or the second time won't work as well. Like Reloader28 said, if you don't get air to it right away the tire can shrink off the bead in a few seconds as the gas inside cools and contracts, but taking the valve stem core out helps break the vacuum as it cools and you can let it equalize before filling with air if your air source is slow, like a 12V emergency pump. If you burn off all your hair, blister your hand, or burn down half a national forest trying to do this I'm not responsible!

Gear

[nanuk]

Heh... Don't try this at home kids... but in the field where you have no resources, it may be your ONLY hope of a re-install.

I had heard about this some time ago, but it was never fully explained.

As I use tubes in my big Ag stuff, I doubt I'll ever need to try this. on the smaller stuff, a ratchet strap seems to work good.

[pls1911]

Xylene, acetone, laquer thinner, MEK, all by the gallon at your local big box home store.
Berryman's workes as well as brake cleaner too. Wish berryman's came in gallons...

[DIRT Farmer]

I like to leave the tire on the rim, just jack it off the ground, I had a 10.00L 15 hit the trusses in the tool shed. More fun than a boomer and chain, and more reliable.

[starmac]

Dirt farmer you might have used just a tad too much. lol.

The worst one I ever did was a huge rubber tired dozer tire, it weighed 1200 pounds or more and went a good 15 feet in the air. But that was back when you could air up one with gasoline, before I had to start using either.

[Three44s]

On the ether and jumping a tubeless tire back on the bead ..........

As you finnish loading the inside of the tire with ether .......... you sweep out onto the outside of the tire like you are brushing something away with the spray continued.

I and my roudy friends refer to it as a "tail" ...........

You then immediately light this "tail" of ether on the outside of the side wall and the ignition trail sweeps the flame front to the inside of the tire and ............ BOOM!

The rest of the technique is the same ....... plenty of compressed air PRONTO so that you don't lose your tenous hold on the freshly remounted bead.

Three 44s