Ranch Dog in Winchester 94

[Shakey Jakey]

I have found tons of info on the 311-165 ranch dog in the Marlin 30-30 but precious little relating it with the Winchester. Surely some feedback must exist, how about it?

[hiram]

Most people will tell you 10 gr of unique.

I used 7gr and got .375" group for 4 shots at 50 yds.

Have to try it at 100.

[kelbro]

Shoots well in my pre-64 Model '94 but it is a little long.

[Shakey Jakey]

Thats what I have, 1951. Are the problems related to feeding or chambering?

[kelbro]

Feeds fine. Just engraves the bullet when chambering. I have to squeeze the lever closed. I had to trim the brass quite a bit (too much in my mind) to eliminate this issue.

[Shakey Jakey]

Is this a common problem when using this bullet with the Winchester 94?

[kelbro]

Not sure. Maybe mine has a short throat compared to other models. Factory ammo shoots light out in this rifle so I never noticed that it was an issue before.

[Denver]

I have the same issue with both my pre 64 Model 94 Winchester 30/30s. The boolit is engraved by the rifling when seated in the crimp groove before the cartridge is fully chambered. The boolit was designed for the Marlins and does an excellent job in all I have used it in so far.

[Shakey Jakey]

How big of a problem is the engraving with the Winchester?

[Denver]

How big of a problem is the engraving with the Winchester?

I've had it pull the boolit and leave it stuck in the throat when I went to unload it. Bad enough when you're out target shooting, but a real pain if you're out hunting and a half mile or more from the truck. With the boolit jammed tight into the rifling, it's bound to raise pressures and probably doesn't do anything for accuracy either. Not saying you can't use the RD boolit in the Winchester, you just need to be aware that you may have to make some adjustments for it. I use the Lyman 311041 in my 94s and have no problems.

[244ack]

Two of my Winchesters would chamber the ranch dog bullet as long as I sized it .309' I have 2 others with short thoats that would not chamber them. One rifle I firelapped it and it moved the throat ahead enough that it chambers the RD bullet fine now. If you could find a few bullets to try before committing to a new mold would be an option.

[Shakey Jakey]

Too late to wait, picked up the NOE RD copy a couple of weeks ago. I'll load a few and see how it goes, and if not well it'll be listed. I may have put the cart in front of the horse.

[Shakey Jakey]

Just loaded one up, chambered it and it engraves heavily. -FOR SALE- Oh well.

[roysha]

Well it's nice to see that I'm not alone with this problem. I just throated my 1952 vintage 94 32 WS to accept the RD bullet. Now I have the same problem with both the Lee 300 gr. and the RD 350 gr. in my Marlin 444.

Reamers don't cost much more than a box of quality jacketed bullets so I figure it is worth the cost and effort to ream the throat to accept the bullet. But then, I'm a tool junkie, so another reamer or whatever I think I need is fine by me.

[Shakey Jakey]

I would like to try seating the boolit deeper and then crimp with the Lee FCD. Anyone use this approach with any success?

[hiram]

My RD boolit does not engrave the rifling on my win M94

[btroj]

My Marlin was engraving the bullet nose. Easy to solve. Trim cases a bit shorter, seat to crimp groove, go shoot.

As for load data, a 30-30 is a 30-30. I bet what works in my Marlin would work pretty good in a Winchester too. Might need a different size diameter. I really like 16 to 17 gr of 2400 with the RD bullet. Works very well for me.

Brad

[1Shirt]

Would like a dollar for every RD I have put thru my M94. Mine likes 16 gr of 2400 and about 3/4 grain of dac fill. Punches paper very well which is what I mostly use my 94 for anyhow. Been using home made alum GC with the RD, and they shoot fine as well.
1Shirt:coffee:

[pls1911]

Shakey jakey... PM me regarding your NOE mold if you're going to turn it... I have two already and a RD as well. They should work fine in your gun, though you may need to seat .002" deeper. I've had similar problems in some Marlins too, as in my experience the newer guns with micro grooves often have much shorter throats than older guns from the 40s and 50s.
Don't worry about the base slightly below the case neck.... The RCBS 180 FP is way below the case neck whe normally loaded.
Although I have lee collet crimp die, I normally use a taper crimp more effectively.

[kelbro]

I trimmed my brass well under min and still engraved the bullets. I guess I could trim them to ultimately fit so I can crimp in the groove. Even though these rifles don't have much recoil, I just feel more comfortable with a solid crimp with a tubular mag.

[NHlever]

Yesterday I was at a large gun store (spent too much money). I had been reading this thread so I took along a couple of Lee C-309-170-FP boolits as cast. The bore riding section miked .3015. I tried the boolits in a number of Marlin, and Winchester 30-30's, and a few 30-06's, etc. too. The bore riding section wouldn't enter just about all the Winchester 94's, but would enter most used Marlins. It was about 50-50 on the bolt guns in other .30 calibers. I guess the conclusion is that it will depend mostly on the chamber in your Winchester whether, or not it will work. I just bought the Lee mold, and was a bit disappointed that the rifling engraves a bit too much in my nice little Marlin 336 TS 30-30. Fortunately, my Lee C-309-150-FN casts a bit smaller, and feeds like grease. I was using a 1-15 alloy so maybe a different alloy would cast smaller, but I don't have much hope there. Many Marlins I've fooled with recently have little, or no throat in the chamber, and that makes it rough for boolits with a groove diameter band ahead of the crimp groove. These things are just all more challenges, and fun for us to work out I guess.

[Shakey Jakey]

I just picked up a 311041 off ebay, coming out of Soldotna AK. I was fishing in that area a few years ago, small world. Anyway, I'll see which of the 2 works best and use it. The Lyman looks like an older cut so maybe it wont be 2 thou small and out of round.