Lubesizer

[Frank]

I was thinking of getting an RCBS Lubesizer, with the correct sized RCBS or Lyman sizer die, and either brand of punch that matches the boolit top. For example, a flat nose .45 caliber boolit will need either a Lyman or RCBS punch that matches that type of boolit. Can you use a Lyman punch with an RCBS sizer die? Also, can I expect alignment issues versus using the Lee push thru die? Is there anything else I need to consider? Why are RCBS punches so much more than Lyman?

[Sully]

Lyman and RCBS dies are interchangable. Why is RCBS higher? Cause they can..???

Dont know about the deal with the Lee equipment??

[94Doug]

The newer RCBS dies are no longer interchangeable....maybe Lyman in an RCBS, but not an RCBS in a Lyman. The punches shouldn't be a problem. The Lee sizers are a whole different animal. I just obtained my first one, and still have not worked with it much, but I like the concept, and see more in my future. I am saving money. I am saving money. I am saving money.


Doug

[Sully]

What got changed so they ARENT interchangeable anymore?

[94Doug]

There have been a few posts lately indicating that RCBS is now making their dies a bit larger so they won't interchange. I have not experienced this; however it's been a while since I have purchased a new die.

Doug

[Sully]

Oh...hmm. I sort kinda doubt that. Its MUCH cheaper for a compay to purchase a product...re-label it and sell it than it is to tool up and actually produce the part. They are still advertised as being swapable ...

Look at the basic cast bodys themselves. Dont know who makes them but Id bet a dollar to a hole in a donut they are one and the same!

[Sully]

There have been a few posts lately indicating that RCBS is now making their dies a bit larger so they won't interchange. I have not experienced this; however it's been a while since I have purchased a new die.

Doug


I called "Charlie"..( ????) at RCBS and he said "once in a while you will find a die that WONT interchange....but that 98% of them WILL ". I thanked him and left it at that.

[Roundnoser]

RCBS and Lyman sizer dies are no longer interchangeable! I purchased a Lyman 4500 and and RCBS .356" die. It did not go all the way down into the Lyman press. Called Lyman and they confirmed. They said that RCBS enlarged the dia. of the dies, but they could not say why they did it.

Lyman dies will work in the RCBS.

[Frank]

Sully:
I called "Charlie"..( ????) at RCBS and he said "once in a while you will find a die that WONT interchange....but that 98% of them WILL ". I thanked him and left it at that.
You tell Charlie he better be right and it better not be 50%. :shock: :redneck:

[Sully]

RCBS and Lyman sizer dies are no longer interchangeable! I purchased a Lyman 4500 and and RCBS .356" die. It did not go all the way down into the Lyman press. Called Lyman and they confirmed. They said that RCBS enlarged the dia. of the dies, but they could not say why they did it.

Lyman dies will work in the RCBS.

If...IF RCBS enlarged their dies...then they also must have enlarged the bore's in the sizers......and IF they did...then the "smaller" Lyman dies would still fit...but how could they keep from blowing grease all over heck and back. The O-ring seal is at the top...what seals the bottom???

And the NEW RCBS Die I purchased...FITS the "older" RCBS sizer I have to a TEE...so something aint kosher here!

[Sully]

Sully:
You tell Charlie he better be right and it better not be 50%. :shock: :redneck:

Well...frankly Frank...I dont care which one you buy....its not MY money at all...but before Id go off half cocked on what MIGHT be a falsehood....Id buy the Lyman brand new from Midway and buy an RCBS die and try it. You can always return them to Midway but at least you would know.

Personally...I have the RCBS and Im keeping it...and I fully intend on buying RCBS dies because of the company policy towards customers.....something that Lyman lacks greatly.

[C.F.Plinker]

RCBS and Lyman sizer dies are no longer interchangeable! I purchased a Lyman 4500 and and RCBS .356" die. It did not go all the way down into the Lyman press. Called Lyman and they confirmed. They said that RCBS enlarged the dia. of the dies, but they could not say why they did it.

Lyman dies will work in the RCBS.

I have both a 450 and a LAM2 and have both Lyman and RCBS sizing dies. After reading the above post I went downstairs and did a little measuring.

The ID on the die retaining nut is .725 on the Lyman and .727 on the RCBS. The OD of the dies where they go into the reatining nut is .721 for the Lyman and .715 for the RCBS. The die body at the lube holes measured .703 for Lyman and .702 for RCBS.

Based on these measurements, which are limited of course, it looks like the dies should interchange OK.

Roundnoser-- could you make some measurements on the die that you have which doesn't fit the Lyman sizer so I could compare it with the measurements above?

[mack1]

I have a RCBS 458 die that would not fit in my lyman 4500 but worked the bottom down with emery cloth just a bit and now it slips in place. I did not touch the taper.

[462]

"Look at the basic cast bodys themselves. Dont know who makes them but Id bet a dollar to a hole in a donut they are one and the same!"

Sorry, Sully. I have RCBS and Lyman sizer dies and the bodies are not the same. However, the RCBS fits in my Lyman 4500.

[Sully]

"Look at the basic cast bodys themselves. Dont know who makes them but Id bet a dollar to a hole in a donut they are one and the same!"

Sorry, Sully. I have RCBS and Lyman sizer dies and the bodies are not the same. However, the RCBS fits in my Lyman 4500.

They sure look close....

[Frank]

That's it? Anything else to consider? What about the alignment? I don't want to sacrifice anything for speed lubing.

[white eagle]

I have a RCBS die that will not fit my Lyman
I did however modify it so it would
so there are dies that will NOT interchange so BEWARE

[462]

RCBS on the left, Lyman on the right. As stated, both fit my Lyman 4500.

[Sully]

I have a RCBS die that will not fit my Lyman
I did however modify it so it would
so there are dies that will NOT interchange so BEWARE

And was described right in this thread....the gentleman worked the die down with EMERY CLOTH! How much material could he even remotely removed??

This thread smacks of some very basic LACK of dimensional tolerances and "fit and finishes"..? If the die ( which it doesnt even come close to) had a finish of "16 RMS" and the casing bore had the same ( thats a laugh) and the die was ".00025" too large...IT WONT JUST SLIP IN!! ( Thats 1/4 of 1 ten thousandths..or mighty damm tiny) And an RMS finish of 16 makes a MIRROR look like sand paper.

Geeze fellas...someone needs to put a tiny bit of thought behind whats really what before they burn someone or something at the stake!

[Sully]

RCBS on the left, Lyman on the right. As stated, both fit my Lyman 4500.

CORRECT...because by a previous post that stated dimensions...the RCBS was a teenie tiny bit SMALLER than the Lyman!!

[Frank]

I'll attempt to hijack this good discussion. :lol: You can keep talking about die dimensions, that's fine. While you're at it, tell me what's the best lubesizer for alignment issues? I like the Lee but it doesn't put the lube in the grooves. How good is the Saeco brand?

[Roundnoser]

I'll attempt to hijack this good discussion. :lol: You can keep talking about die dimensions, that's fine. While you're at it, tell me what's the best lubesizer for alignment issues? I like the Lee but it doesn't put the lube in the grooves. How good is the Saeco brand?

I have no personal experience with SAECO, but from everything I've read, SAECO is very high quality, and very good with bullet alignment.

[Roundnoser]

C.F. Plinker -- Unfortunately, I had a friend at a machine shop grind the OD to fit my 4500. Midsouth Shooter Supply did not have a Lyman 356 die in stock and I was too excited to wait! -- To emphysize...when I first installed the RCBS die in the 4500, it seated far enough for me to JUST catch the threads on the die nut(?)....and no more It still needed to go down another 1/8 - 1/4 inch (approx)! To remove it, I had to disassemble the lower assembly on the press and tap it out with a short wooden dowl! It was jammed in there TIGHT!

Sully - In my case, I believe the taper at the base of the RCBS / Lyman dies must be the same. Once I ground down the OD on the die so it would fit the 4500, the taper on the bottom of the die fit perfectly...I'm guessing thats the reason it didn't leak from the bottom.

To all -- This had become a pretty hot topic! -- I don't want to add fuel to the fire. -- Keep in mind that the dimensional changes I'm told took place in 2000 - ? (don't know exactly how long ago). So, if you have a 10 + year old RCBS die, it WILL be interchangeable. -- I'm just telling you what The Lyman folks told me when I had my problem a couple years ago.

[462]

"CORRECT...because by a previous post that stated dimensions...the RCBS was a teenie tiny bit SMALLER than the Lyman!!"

When members have said that RCBS dies wouldn't fit their Lyman 45/450/4500s, I understood it that the issue was that the RCBS die was taller, not fatter. I just measured the two dies pictured in my previous post. The RCBS is 1.565" long and the Lyman is 1.562". As C. F. Plinker said, the RCBS die has a smaller diameter.

So, yes, an RCBS may not fit in a Lyman press, because it's too tall And, yes, .003" can easily be removed from the bottom of an RCBS die, thereby allowing it to fit into a Lyman press.

Manufacturing tolerances may be what finally determines whether or not the dies are 100% interchangable.

[Doby45]

While you're at it, tell me what's the best lubesizer for alignment issues?

Star, nose first alignment, nuff said. ;)

[Frank]

I've got an idea. How about I push the boolit thru the Lee die with dishsoap, then switch to the Lyman/RCBS type lubesizer just to lube the boolit. Would that eliminate any alignment issues messing up the boolit?

[Sully]

"CORRECT...because by a previous post that stated dimensions...the RCBS was a teenie tiny bit SMALLER than the Lyman!!"

When members have said that RCBS dies wouldn't fit their Lyman 45/450/4500s, I understood it that the issue was that the RCBS die was taller, not fatter. I just measured the two dies pictured in my previous post. The RCBS is 1.565" long and the Lyman is 1.562". As C. F. Plinker said, the RCBS die has a smaller diameter.

So, yes, an RCBS may not fit in a Lyman press, because it's too tall And, yes, .003" can easily be removed from the bottom of an RCBS die, thereby allowing it to fit into a Lyman press.

Manufacturing tolerances may be what finally determines whether or not the dies are 100% interchangable.
And .003 is right at the thickness of a piece of paper!!! A speck of sand ( who knows??) up inside that retaining nut counterbore could stop it from going all the way in at that rate..

It appears that somewhere along the line "they" loosened up the TOLERANCE on machining that body length ( nominal dimension stayed the same....for those that understand nominal and tolerance) and that means sooner or later "some" are going to the LONG SIDE of the tolerance while MOST ARE NOT....hence "some fit and some dont " sort of thing. Its called "cost reduction" by loosening up the tolerance....seen it MANY times in 37 years. Sometimes it works...sometimes it bites ya in the ass!

Seems that sure solved the mystery!!

[C.F.Plinker]

Keep in mind that the dimensional changes I'm told took place in 2000 - ? (don't know exactly how long ago). So, if you have a 10 + year old RCBS die, it WILL be interchangeable. -- I'm just telling you what The Lyman folks told me when I had my problem a couple years ago.

Glad you got it to work in your 4500.

FWIW one of my RCBS dies was bought in 2008 and has only been used in my 450. The other RCBS die was bought in 2010 and, because of my choice of lube, is only used in the LAM2. The Lyman dies go back about 40 years.

[Frank]

Roundnoser:
To all -- This had become a pretty hot topic! -- I don't want to add fuel to the fire. -- Keep in mind that the dimensional changes I'm told took place in 2000 - ? (don't know exactly how long ago). So, if you have a 10 + year old RCBS die, it WILL be interchangeable. -- I'm just telling you what The Lyman folks told me when I had my problem a couple years ago.
I went with green. I liked the color orange better but didn't want a problem with fit. SAECO doesn't make a sizer for big boolits (475).

[ChuckS1]

Late to the party on this one, so I apologize in advance.

But, I have a 4500 I bought new two years ago and the new RCBS dies I have bought over the last two years all seem to fit and work.

I think the only Lyman die I have is a .454.

[Frank]

It doesn't matter. They're both good. I would hope if I broke something the company would fix it. A good product that is backed by a solid warranty is the one I buy.

[thehouseproduct]

I'm fighting this problem for the second time now. I like using RCBS lube dies because they have a single row of holes that is great for bevel base boolits. you lower the boolit, add pressure, release and raise it back out and the bevel base never gets lubed. I have a Lyman 45 and my new die for 45acp boolits won't seat. I am breaking out the sandpaper tonight and I'll see if I can coerce it in.

[Reload3006]

RCBS and Lyman sizer dies are no longer interchangeable! I purchased a Lyman 4500 and and RCBS .356" die. It did not go all the way down into the Lyman press. Called Lyman and they confirmed. They said that RCBS enlarged the dia. of the dies, but they could not say why they did it.

Lyman dies will work in the RCBS.

My new lyman 4500 will not even take Lyman H&I dies I would say they have a bunch of bad presses out there. Dealing with that very issue with Lyman right now.

[thehouseproduct]

I'm fighting this problem for the second time now. I like using RCBS lube dies because they have a single row of holes that is great for bevel base boolits. you lower the boolit, add pressure, release and raise it back out and the bevel base never gets lubed. I have a Lyman 45 and my new die for 45acp boolits won't seat. I am breaking out the sandpaper tonight and I'll see if I can coerce it in.
Very light grind on the Bottom half and it slides right in.