help me beat the guy's with jacketed bullets

[canuck4570]

going to shoot this summer in 1000 yards competition
rifle TRG22 in 308
question
my rifle shoot less than 1 inche at 200 yards with 18 gr of 2400 fps is 1820
but need a little more speed
so what would be the best powder that would give me the less velocity spread and shoot around 2200 fps
position insensitive
thank you
I am shooting the RCBS 180 gr bullets

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I use the same FN in my caliber .30 rifles. It is very accurate out to 300 yards. But I think you are going to have serious problems out to 1000 yds due to that FN. I would be more inclined to get a 200 grain spire point for those distances.
Powder.. I find the slower burn rate powders to give good accuracy. Powders around 4350, 4831, 860 seem to give a better smoother shove out the barrel.

[sqlbullet]

H4831 would be my go to powder to start. I load 57 grains behind a Lee 200 gr RN gas checked and felix lubed in my 300 Win Mag with about a grain of polyfill. I don't have a chrono, but this should be a 2300 fps load. In 30-06 I use 42 grains and get good results. 4895 or Varget may work well in 308.

I was shooting rocks out in the desert at about 120 yards on Saturday and think this will print less than an inch at 100 yards. Going to find on on Wednesday, weather permitting.

However, this load is going to go transonic at about 500-600 yards, and likely will destabilize when it does. It is also down 68 minutes at 1000 yards. Even if you could get this bullet up to the 2800 fps (maybe with a paper patch) the 300 win mag should be able to push it, it will still be transonic at 1000 yards.

I love lead bullets, but for distances over 500 yards, it is really hard to compete with the ballistics advantages the shapes other materials make possible.

[PacMan]

Maybe Larry Gibson will chim in here.Seems to be very apt when it comes to rifle and cast bullets.

I really think that i would also contact Veral at LBT and ask his advice also.The more input you get the better.Then all you need to do is make your decission.Sounds easy.Good luck and keep us informed.I wil never shoot that far but my nature makes me wonder.

[koehn,jim]

I personally would not shoot lead at 1000 yards. I love cast bullet loads but they have limitations. At 1000 yards you want every variable elimated, that you can control. I used to use 168 grain sierra HPBT at that range and got great results. I would keep cast bullets within 500 yards and you should get good results but jacketed at maximum range. I am getting one of the grp buy 311365 this month and it might give you a chance, it is a 210 grain spire point with an excellent ballistic co-efficent. I will be happy to send you some for testing after the mold arrives. Good luck.

[Houndog]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I don't think you can be competitive at 1K benchrest matches with a cast boolet in a .308 shooting against the same 308 with match specific condom bullets. I shoot 1K yard matches time to time and one of the "secrets" is to shoot a bullet and load that will stay supersonic all the way to the target. It can be done with a 308 using a 168 Sierra HPBT by using some fairly hot loads and uniforming the meplate AT HIGHER ELEVATIONS (less bullet drag) but at sea level it gets iffy at best. REAL bad juju happens to the bullet's flight when the supersonic shockwave catches the bullet when it falls to subsonic levels. If I were going to shoot 1K targets with a lead boolet I think I would want to start with a MUCH larger round and a much heavier boolet than a 308 could possibly use. I'm sure some of the members here will post far better information than I can about shooting cast at long ranges but keep in mind a 1/2 MOA group ( a little more than 5 inches) at 1K won't get a yawn out of a serious long range shooter.

[USSR]

Guys,

The 168gr Sierra MatchKing is not a good bullet for 1,000 yard shooting. I have shot 1,000 yard F Class for 7 years, and nobody uses that bullet. It was designed for 300 meter competition, and the boattail angle is all wrong for shooting out to 1k. I spotted for one guy using them a couple years ago, and it was pretty frustrating for all concerned. The bullets were going transonic, and it was anybody's guess where some of those bullets were going. In .30 caliber, the most commonly used bullets are the 155gr Scenar or the 175SMK.

Don

[atr]

when in doubt I try IMR 4895...

[Larry Gibson]

Yes cast bullets do have their limitations and expecting to be "competative" at 1000 yards with a .308W is one of them. I have been a long range match shooter for many years and found early on that even being competative at 600 yards is a problem. With the older 5V bulls cast bullets in the .308W and '06 could give decent scores and be "competative up through "Expert" classification. However, to score decently above that takes a hard hold and excellent jacketed bullets these days on the 10X decimal targets. On 100, 200 and 300 yard reduced matchs cast bullets can hold their own but at actual distance getting a 600 yard load that stays transonic and holds 1.5 moa or better fo 20 record shots (required for Master level scores) isn't that easy. Note; many matches are won by "X" count these days, particularly at 600 yards. I've shot my best 600 yard .308W and '06 cast bullet loads at 1000 yards and my scores were Sharpshooter level at best with one to three shots not scoring and were "lost". I normally shoot High Master scores at 1000 yards.

I suggest if you really want to be competative at 1000 yards with your TRG22 that you look at the Sierra 175 gr MK over 44.5 - 45 gr Varget in WW cases with WLR primers. Sorry to say but cast bullets just won't get you there out of a .308W. Yes they do out of BP cartridges but then those don't shoot the scores that High Power shooters do.

Larry Gibson

[btroj]

How you are going to keep those super sonic at 1K I don't know. A 308 needs to be pushed hard to do that with a 155 for Plama. And those tilted have long, like 28 to 30 inch, barrels for a reason.
Give it a shot. It don't start bragging yet, hate to see you choke on a shoe.

Brad

[canuck4570]

last summer I shot to 600 meters with a load at 1800 fps that shot one inch group at 200 metters
and that bullets drop subsonic much before the 600 meters marks and I still manage
5 inch group at 600
most of the shooters here said yes that is possible but the test is the 600 to 900 meters that are range has they said that where it will go bad
your opinion on that
can wait till spring to start this experiment
will keep you informe

[NHlever]

going to shoot this summer in 1000 yards competition
rifle TRG22 in 308
question
my rifle shoot less than 1 inche at 200 yards with 18 gr of 2400 fps is 1820
but need a little more speed
so what would be the best powder that would give me the less velocity spread and shoot around 2200 fps
position insensitive
thank you
I am shooting the RCBS 180 gr bullets

If you have a cast load that shoots that well, I sure wouldn't mess with it, but rather would bring the guys to your turf, and shoot within the capabilities of what you have.

[canuck4570]

the scope set up on my TRG22 is
schmid@bender 5-25x56
the scope has 26 Mil elevation possible on it because its mounted on a 45 MOA piicatinny rail
the reticle has 30 mil of ash mark
that said at 1000 yards I need 31 Mil of elevation whit the load I have
easily obtainable with this set up by going up 21 mil and using the 10 mil ash mark

the load I have I took it in the sticky on this site
now I am shooting 21 gr. of aliant 2400
the bullet are just water cool and give no leading could shoot all day and no problem

will try it to 1000 this spring and report back
I posted this thread in the belief that a little bit faster would help me
will try different powder and also give you a feedback
has they say TO BE CONTINUED

[peerlesscowboy]

I'd try H4831