Hand made cannon

[6bg6ga]

First of all I apologize if this in the wrong section.

Years ago my Dad made a cannon and I can remember watching him shoot it but unfortunately I never watched carefully to see how much powder and the proper procedure for loading it. It shot a 1" ball. He also made his own mold for it. He was handy. Unfortunately I cannot ask him how to do it because he passed away over 5 yrs ago and I wish I had spent more time with this remarkable gentleman.

Anyone have any ideas on a load for it?

[LUCKYDAWG13]

go to graybeard outdoors they have a cannon forum just USE BLACK POWDER ONLY
dont ask me how i know this it was a long time ago :roll:

[rhbrink]

Something to do with the LUCKY part of your handle?

I did something really stupid with a home made cannon once when I was a youngun' don't want to talk about it either!:shock:

[Wots]

[smilie=1:KaaaBooom?

[Shooter]

It is hard to suggest loads when we don't know what it is made of, or how it was made.

[6bg6ga]

It was made on a lathe and turned out of one piece of steel. The barrel has thick walls so its not going to blow up. I have personally seen it hit targets accurately at 100 yrds.

[coopieclan]

Can you show a picture (some pictures)?

[6bg6ga]

If I had it with me right now I would. It is at another residence right now and it isn't feasible for me to pick it up now. Will put pictures up as soon as I am able to do so.

[6bg6ga]

Some pictures of the cannon.

As you can see it is made quite well. Now to start the clean up process to restore it the way it was before Dad passed away.

Any ideas as to a load for it would be appreciated. It shoots a ball measuring 1.030 dia The cannon weighs 27Lbs

Thanks,
Joe

[legend]

That does not look safe enough to shoot,be carefull and save yourself,you have my permission to send it to me in wyoming,which is far enough away from you.....


Ok,see you feel better now you are thinking about it?

[6bg6ga]

Do you like it?[smilie=s:

Just measured the barrel and it was 2.530 dia at the muzzle.

[FrankG]

Shine a light down bore and see if there is a powder chamber in breech . He may have bored a chamber for powder . If so it doesnt need filled completely with powder but will need topped off with filler so there is no air gap between charge and ball.

[FrankG]

How is it breeched ? Threaded breech ? Welded ? Be safe and check it thoroughly before firing.

[Fredx10sen]

Very nice Cannon.

[405]

It looks extremely well made! But, I have the same questions about the ignition/breech system- can't tell from the photos. No matter the system and even with the quality craftsmanship that is evident, I'd for sure use real blackpowder. BTW, the carriage kind of reminds me of those seen on old 16th-17thC square rigger ships except it's a little higher slung and doesn't have the harness rigging on front of the carriage for return to firing/battery postion after recoil.
I like it!

[JIMinPHX]

just USE BLACK POWDER ONLY
dont ask me how i know this it was a long time ago :roll:

I saw a toy cannon pumkin-pussed when I was a kid because nobody in my neighborhood knew the difference between black powder & the other propellants that were available at the time. Fortunately, we were smart enough to stand behind a big rock after the fuse was lit.

[JIMinPHX]

That is a serious looking "toy" cannon you have there. Geeze, a 1" bore. That thing is a little monster.

[JIMinPHX]

I've always wanted to make one, but I never seem to get around to it. I did draw one up though. It's on a little smaller scale than yours is.

[6bg6ga]

Ok,

Looked down the barrel and he bored it straight down. There is no extra chamber if I understand correctly. The other end is thick also as it is 1.9" from the end of the bore to the end of the barrel. The ignition system is a simple fuse, light it and stand back. I don't even know where to get the fuse material. I would assume that black powder would be easy to obtain.

I'm not afraid to shoot it by any means and I know for fact that it is safe. When he was alive I was with him a number of times when he shot it. He always drew a crowd of people when he shot it at some local gun ranges. I generally tried to keep people back a safe distance so I never paid attention to how much black powder went in it or the wad he used because I assumed he would always be around to school me on its operation. Never make that assumption.

[6bg6ga]

Pictures of the Cannon ball mold he made to cast his own.

[HATCH]

My friend Hudson had a bunch of Civil War cannons.
It never fired any balls out of them, he just used newspaper as a wad.

Ever see a piece of newspaper embedded into a 6 inch round telephone pole stump?
At the range of 2 feet, he shredded the stump.

I wouldn't want to even guess the charge.

[Shooter]

I would start with 10 Ga. BP shotgun loads, and work up to maybe 4 Ga.. The barrel lenght isn't going to burn more than that.

[JIMinPHX]

You can probably get fuse from a hobby shop that sells model rockets.

With antique BP muskets, some friends of mine use a starting charge of half the caliber. In a 50 cal, they start with 25 grains. a 1-inch bore would be 100 cal. By their logic, a starting charge would be 50 grains. Others would recommend a starting charge the same volume as your ball. In that case, you could use your ball mold as a powder measure.

There are different granulations of Black Powder. The faster powders have higher numbers. There is F, 2F, 3F & 4F. If I remember correctly, F is usually used for full sized cannon. 2F is usually used for rifles over .50 cal. 3F is usually used for small bore & pistols. 4F is flash powder. If I have that backwards, somebody please correct me.

F is probably going to be hard to find. I would not go any faster than 2F in that thing. A synthetic BP substitute that would equate to 2F would be Pyrodex RS (RS= for rifle & shotgun).

Please look up the handling instructions for BP, especially if you are going to use the real stuff. It's a little more sensitive to some things than modern smokeless powders or BP substitutes.

[Geraldo]

My uncle, also a machinist, has made several cannons on a lathe. If this one is made the same as he made his, you start with whatever size barstock you want to use and drill/bore/machine away anything that doesn't look like a cannon. No threaded or welded breech, just a blind blind hole.

[405]

6bg6ga,
As I said, the thing looks exceptionally well made. I suppose you'd like to fire it :)- I know I would. I'd treat just like a regular firearm or muzzleloader and shoot it in an area suitable for shooting- like a shooting range with good backstop.

You're best bet is to get some blackpowder and some cannon fuse and some soft lead for casting the balls. I don't know exactly what the mold will drop in diameter. It could fire just a bare round ball where there is slight friction between the ball and the bore. If that is the case then charge with black powder, tamp a paper wad on top of the powder then push the ball down on top of the paper for snug fit. If the ball is slightly undersized then I'd load it just like a patched roundball load for a muzzleloader. Find some cotton cloth that is the right thickness so that the patched ball will slide down the bore with a little resistance and be in firm contact with the charge and not move as the cannon is set for firing.

If it were mine, I'd charge with a load of 50gr. of blackpowder either Fg or FFg to start with.

Cut a length of fuse about 6"-10". Push fuse into the touch hole so that a little is sticking into the "powder chamber"- maybe 1/2"... with the remaining 5-10" sticking out of the cannon. Tape the fuse to the outside of the cannon so the fuse can't be pushed out of the chamber and touch hole. Charge with 50 gr. black powder. Ram wad then ball or ram patched ball to full contact with powder charge. Aim ("point") cannon at target and berm. I'd start with a big piece of cardboard at 25 yards. Light fuse and get away to the side and rear. Boomphmpf! Fuse burn rates vary so you should test a short length of it before hand so you know the burn rate.

Use good quality cannon fuse! There are sources for fuse and black powder.

Use hot soapy water to completely clean cannon then oil after drying- just as with muzzleloaders.

Here's a source for black powder and cannon fuse. You'll have to pay some hazmat shipping fees but it will be shipped to your door.

If you're unsure about muzzleloader shooting it wouldn't hurt to have a person with a lot of muzzleloader experience go with you to fire the cannon.

Here's a link for source for both black powder and cannon fuse.

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/5566

[6bg6ga]

Quote:
My uncle, also a machinist, has made several cannons on a lathe. If this one is made the same as he made his, you start with whatever size bar stock you want to use and drill/bore/machine away anything that doesn't look like a cannon. No threaded or welded breech, just a blind blind hole.


That is exactly how this one was made. One massive piece of steel bar stock machined to what is shown in the pictures. It has no threaded or welded breech. He made it look as if the breech would come off but that is an illusion.

It would have been nice if Dad would have been able to visit this website as he would have had a lot to contribute to others and frankly he would have enjoyed himself here because as I am finding there are a lot of great people here.

Thanks for the ideas and information so far.

[wills]

I would use a cardboard tube as a powder chamber to reduce the charge. start with a very small FF or F powder charge and work your way up.

Be sure you squirril it out with a cork screw after firing


That should fit a golf ball nicely.

Hole in One?

PS: You may want to try it OUTSIDE Far Away from People but Close to a Hospital.

Can anyone figure out what this guy used instead of Black Powder?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxHW-QGMuZ4&feature=player_embedded


I dont remember my Teachers like this?
Origin of the word Blunderbuss


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4JJdRIaACw&feature=related



I learn something every day

The guy posted his e mail address, you could write and ask.

[Linstrum]

According to Col. George C. Nonte the accepted way to determine the black powder charge for a muzzle loader rifle is to take a ROUND BALL that fits the bore and place it on a large sheet of paper. Take your powder and carefully and slowly pour the powder over the ball until it makes a conical pile that just barely covers the ball. That is the powder charge for that size ball in a long rifle. For the cannon with a shorter barrel I'd use just half the powder pile because the barrel is so short, its bore to length ratio is more like a giant pistol. I have a 1" cannon (haven't shot it in 30 years) and I used FG and home made serpentine powder in it. You already know that a one inch black powder cannon is very powerful, you can put a ball through a car no problem, or blow a telephone pole in two. I used mine to split firewood once, but it was kind of dangerous and I had to stand behind a shield to keep from being hit with splinters.


rl969

[firefly1957]

Your charge depends a lot on what you want to do your minimum load is were the fuse hole is.
If it is solid like you say a large powder charge should not damage it. Recoil will damage the carriage so that is were you what to balance your load between Minimum and excessive recoil.
something else to consider is safety a 1 inch round ball has a LOT of energy so have a safe place to shoot. Also the cannon may shoot higher than you aim it with heavy loads so you have to watch were it actually shoots closely.
I have a small 45 cal. "old Ironsides" cannon made by CVA (kit) even ten grains of black powder behind round ball raises it before the ball leaves the muzzle making shots go high. Your "gun" at 27# may not have that problem but beware of it. Oh and NEVER stand behind or in front of it off to the side is best.
Enjoy I am jealous I would like one for my yard !

[JIMinPHX]

Of course, we are all making the assumption that when you father chose to make this cannon, he chose a good strong material & not something brittle like cast iron. If you have any doubts about that, please act accordingly.

[6bg6ga]

Of course, we are all making the assumption that when you father chose to make this cannon, he chose a good strong material & not something brittle like cast iron. If you have any doubts about that, please act accordingly.
__________________

He chose a high grade steel to machine to make the cannon.

[firefly1957]

Still would like to shoot it bet it will make a lot of noise! I come close to buying a brass one in Florida about $350 THEN bore would take a golf ball. they were about 4 feet long. Oh for 20-20 hind sight brass is way to much to afford it now.
I know this is apples and oranges but my club has a reactive target that is a 4 inch well casing welded to a plate it is about 18 inches long and loaded with powder than a Plastic cup of sand I have put up to 1 1/2 pounds of powder in that without damage to the pipe. The idea is to shoot though a 1 inch hole at 80 or more yards to set off two musket caps it make a heck of a noise when it goes off and the concussion is FELT for some distance. It is used as a 50-50 fund raiser people put in a dollar for a offhand shot (Roundball muzzle loader) if you set it off you get half the pot.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

THAT LOOKS SWEET
I WOULD START SMALL 50gr of FFG and work my way up I WOULD NOT TRY AND SHOOT A BALL OUT OF THE BARREL with black powder you dont have to pack real tight you can use a pice of bread or paper

go to GRAYBEARD OUTDOORS (BLACKPOWDER MORTAR AND CANNON FORUM

GOOD LUCK

[waksupi]

I wouldn't be worried about shooting it. A barrel company did some destructive testing on BP barrels here. They even took a cardboard tube from paper towels, wrapped it with duct tape, put projectiles in each end, and didn't blow the tube.

[chboats]

I have a 3/4" bore cannon that I got from South Bend Replicas. It is cast iron with a steel liner. I shoot a .735 round ball over 120 gr of FFG with great results. Have been shooting it for years. I am not sure you could put enough powder in it, with a single round ball, to blow it up. I read of a distructive test on a 58 cal muzzle loader. The barrel and lock were mounted to a 4 x4. They kept increasing the powder and bullet weight until they had 400gr of FFFg under three 600gr mini balls with no damage to the barrel. I don't think I would recomment a load like that.

Carl

[JIMinPHX]

Another good source of cannon info - http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showforum.php?fid/20/fbb_session_id/fd05b5d3b3bd4205fc6eb114cd8376bf/

That site's main page - http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/index.php?referral/5727/

[JIMinPHX]

According to these guys, a 3-oz sinker mold makes a ball that will fit a 1" cannon - http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/253300/

They seem to recommend getting a round ball mold from here - http://www.jt-bullet-moulds.co.uk/moulds.htm that place has both solid & hollow ball molds

Some sobering information on cannon disasters - http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/192442/

[6bg6ga]

If you look at post #21 I already have a ball mold. My Dad made this as well. He designed it to use the lathe as a means to hold the mold. He was quite creative.

[6bg6ga]

Thanks Guys for all the info and responses. I will proceed cautiously when the weather warms up and I can try out this baby. Might even take a video or two if I can figure out how to post it.

[Linstrum]

That would be neat if you could post a video. When I was shooting my 1-inch cannon that is the same size as yours I took some photos at night, including some time lapse photos, and they are just awesomely spectacular with the huge ball of fire that rolls out along the ground and all the tracer-like sparks that go shooting on out into the night. It is easy to see why black powder cannons can be a fire hazard! If you use say 200 grains of Black powder then you have about a three foot diameter smoke ring of fire coming out and going five or maybe ten feet in front of the muzzle before it cools below incandescence! I have also seen a single barrel cannon that shoots the 20mm Vulcan round firing single shot at night and it has the same effect with a huge smoke ring of fire that just rolls and rolls on out for several yards. In fact any large bore gun or pistol firing at night is interesting to watch. The videos of a mini-gun firing with tracers from a gunship at night is also just like the Fourth of July!


rl978

[Bushrod]

I remember being in high school, think I was a sophomore at the time. The seniors in the metal shop class built a cannon to shoot 1" ball bearings. Needless to say they loaded it and blew the shop door of the hinges. That was about 40 years ago.:evil:

[405]

This thread is a study of human nature :) Most muzzleloader and BPCR shooters including those who have old originals think nothing of loading BP (or even 48 grs of 3031 smokeless as in the trapdoor thread!) underneath a heavy lead ball or slug and touching the thing off next to their head. Yet all the worry about a light load of BP under a lead RB in this cannon???? Take a look at the type of iron or primitive steel used in the old BP era rifles/handguns and take a look at the design/thickness of the barrel, chamber walls, receivers, breech blocks in many of those old guns. THEN compare that to this cannon made with modern steel. :) I'd be more worried about how to control where that 1" ball went after firing- even with a backstop or berm I can imagine a "whistling" ricochet off into the next county. As Bart Simpson says, "I didn't do it, noboby saw me do it, you can't prove anything". :)

[6bg6ga]

Quote:

I'd be more worried about how to control where that 1" ball went after firing- even with a backstop or berm I can imagine a "whistling" ricochet off into the next county. As Bart Simpson says, "I didn't do it, noboby saw me do it, you can't prove anything".



The cannon has always been fired at a shooting range with a very very thick backstop. Nothing has or is capable of penetrating the backstop regardless of caliber. Caution and common sense have always been used after all I am no youngster.

[firefly1957]

405 I did write that early on about recoil raising point of impact and recoil being the limiting factor on powder load.
Also note that even blank loads will recoil if enough powder is used.

[coopieclan]

Nice cannon,
When I was a kid I worked on a "Committee" Boat for Yacht Racing.
The boat is anchored at the starting line.
The judges used the cannon to start the race.
That cannon took a 10 gauge blank shotgun shell.
There was a simple mechanism breech load the shell, cock the cannon by hand and pull a string to release the hammer. BO0M !

They still make something like them.

[6bg6ga]

982979829898299

[Eddie2002]

Is that a one inch bore? very nice piece. I really like the trunnion mounts. If you shoot it from a table clamp a 2x4 across the back of the table so the cannon won't roll off from the recoil. KABOOM!!!!

[6bg6ga]

Is that a one inch bore? very nice piece. I really like the trunnion mounts. If you shoot it from a table clamp a 2x4 across the back of the table so the cannon won't roll off from the recoil. KABOOM!!!!


Bore is exactly 1.025

Enclosed hopefully is a picture of the cannon on its recoil pad. After the first time of having the cannon flip over the recoil pad was dreamed up. It works great.98315