Some more work with the M95 Steyr 8x56R

[Buckshot]

..............I' loaded this ammo in April of last year and fired it the 18th of last month. The carbine (below) ................

http://www.fototime.com/00C73BAA827D746/standard.jpg

Is all matching but I don't know what value that is as I'm sure it's been re-arsenaled at some point in it's past. It will easily chamber a round with a slug sized .338". It's bore and groove is .3150" x .3334". I haven't upset a slug at the muzzle to see Wassup' there, but when driving a slug from the breech to the muzzle, in the last little bit it becomes noticeably easier. I'm thinking too much energetic cleaning from the muzzle has put some wear on the lands there. Otherwise the bore has quite a bit of shine and with lands almost .010" tall they're, er ........... prominent? :-)

http://www.fototime.com/E5F797678DB6438/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/B28CF43324320EC/standard.jpg

The slug used was the original Oldfeller (D). The cartridge OAL was 3.052" which had the casemouth crimped into the bottom lube groove (one drive band and GC only in the case). At that OAL the slug was barely touched on the turn of it's ogive by the lands. In THIS carbine you'd have to have a 250 gr slug to touch!

http://www.fototime.com/69BE8C3FA8243DE/standard.jpg

These are all 10 round groups, fired at 50 yards. Each target shows the powder and velocity. All had a dacron filler except the Unique load. The charges were:

Unique: 14.0 grs SD: 9.8, ES: 30.0
2400 : 18.0 grs SD: 9.7, ES: 28.0
Surp SR 4759: 22.0 grs SD: 8.0, ES: 24.8
Nobel Tubal 2000 (like 4198): 26.0 grs SD: 9.5, ES: 26.6
Surp IMR 4198 (NOT like 4198 :-)): 30.0 grs SD: 18.9, ES: 57.7

That surplus IMR 4198 is more akin to 3031. Lube was Javalina, Hornady 338 GC's. Loaded in Graf (Privi-Partisan) brass neck sized only, and CCI LRP's. Boolit wt 232 grs, visually inspected only.

....................Buckshot

[JeffinNZ]

Were those barrels cut to shoot patched round balls!!!??? MOTHER that is a big throat and deep rifling.

[swheeler]

BShot looks like your 2400 load grouped best of tested loads, I'm sure the dacron helped. I just got done glass bedding the reciever on my 95, so weather permitting will see if it helps.

[Wayne Smith]

Rick, I'm not feeling so bad. I was out with mine yesterday. Oldfeller boolits from the BRP mold, same brass, loaded with 18, 20, 22, & 23 gr SR4759, also shot at 50yds. I'm using a BSA cheapie sight that projects a point or crosshair/dot on a screen, forgot what it's called. Not real precise, anyway.

18 gr gave me a roughly 2"x1 1/2" group.
20 gr had three touching and two fliers, probably my boolits, some were ugly
22 gr gave me roughly a 2"x2" group
23 gr gave me roughly a 1"x2" group

I say a rough measure because I was holding a steel measure against a vertical target that not only wasn't flat, also had little backing so almost no rigidity.

I want to do more with these, but also put a scope on the thing. Early cataracts in both eyes doesn't help. I also have 8lbs of WC867 that I want to try. Have you played around with any of the very slow powders in this?

[Buckshot]

Have you played around with any of the very slow powders in this?

................Yes, but by themselves they're too inefficient and dirty. I'll have to try again with a couple grains of 4198 as a 'kicker'.

..............Buckshot

[SciFiJim]

I'll have to try again with a couple grains of 4198 as a 'kicker'

How do you go about deciding what speed of powder to use as a "kicker"? Why 4198 and not something faster like 2400 or much faster like Bullseye?

[Wayne Smith]

How do you go about deciding what speed of powder to use as a "kicker"? Why 4198 and not something faster like 2400 or much faster like Bullseye?

My question too. Especially as I have no 4198 - I can go from as fast as Bullseye or Herco to Unique or 2400 or as slow as 3031 or 4350.

How much does the relative speed of the "kicker" matter? Has anybody done any research on this? I.E. changes in velocity, cleanliness of burning, or pressure? I don't mind taking some reasonable chances but if someone has gone there before I'd like to know. Besides, I don't have the equipment that some of you have. Sometimes the range is so busy I don't even bother to set up the chronograph.

[Buckshot]

..............The first time I duplexed it was with the 45-70 and the main charge was surp WC860. A full case gave something like 980 fps and left the barrel fairly awash in unburned powder. I figured there wasn't any real worry of me blowing my personal face off if I tried a 'kicker'. I also wasn't going to be shooting the 45-70 in a Trapdoor, but a converted MAS36 bolt action.

I realized that entire load of WC860 was going to be sitting atop whatever powder I utilized, PLUS the case was going to be corked off with a slug. Now we all understand how smokless powder works, right? It reacts to pressure. In a pile on the ground it burns very hot, liberates copious amounts of gas but does very simply ................... burn. Like a pile of autumn leaves. When you pressurize the environment the burning powder is in by restricting the gase's escape, it becomes increasingly energetic as the pressure increases.

In effect on one hand you have a pile of powder not doing much except creating heat and gas, and on the other end you have a bomb. A modern cartridge operates biased well toward the bomb end of things :-) So the reason I didn't use a fast powder is that I'd read that really fast ones like Bullseye in a 38 Special has burned up and reached it's peak pressure before the boolit-bullet has exited the case. I envisioned a few grains of fast powder confined in the bottom of the case createing a pressure bubble, and I wanted something a bit less energetic but still easy to ignite. It still all happens so fast, right?

So I started with 1.0 gr of 4198 and a casefull of WC860. Then 2 grains, then 3, up to 5 grains of 4198. I'd loaded 5 rounds of each. In the MAS36 I found that 3 grs of 4198 did exactly what I wanted, which was to completly eliminate any unburned powder. At the same time it gave a very usefull velocity of right around 1250 fps. I did shoot the balance of the rounds as no pressure signs were evident, and it was the easiest way to get the cases empty again :-) I do have the data recorded but offhand I don't recall that the 5 grain load added much beyond what I was looking for. It was worth it as at that time surplus WC860 figured out to $3.20/lb, delivered freight AND haz mat.

So that was my reason to use the burning range I did for the kicker charge. I plan on using it again in the 8x56, but will go from there.

...............Buckshot

[Pepe Ray]

Tremendous post!!
Thanks Rick
Pepe Ray

[303Guy]

My theory of slow powder is to use a slow enough powder to get a half decent muzzle velocity with a slow pressure rise and modest pressure so as not to upset the boolit. The powder needs to be bulky enough to load to safe load densities. Varget/AR2208 in a 303 Brit as well as H4350/AR2209 but the latter with wheat bran as a filler to ensure proper ignition and burning. Works really well for me even in a short barrel. I sure would not use a reduced H4350 load without a dense filler of some kind. Wheat bran does not raise the pressure very much - tested with H4227/AR2205.