.222 or .223 for shooting cast?

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Howdy!

I'm looking for a .22 cal centerfire bolt action rifle. How does the CZ, Sako, Tikka's compare to a Rem 700 BDL?

Hoping to shoot targets and coyotes, plus any jack rabbit I see! :mrgreen: I'm hoping for 2200 - 2500 fps eventually . . . Lyman #4 says best accuracy was about 2300 fps . . . time will tell.

It appears to me that the .222 has a longer neck, and smaller powder capacity, this seems to me to be a better setup for cast, am I right?

Will a 1:12" twist be good for 55 - 60gr boolits?

[stubshaft]

Remington makes a good rifle in the 700 and I own a couple of them. MY, personal choice leans toward the SAKO as I have 9 of those.

In regards to your choice of caliber, either one will work well in a 12" twist. If I had to choose one I would go with the 222. A little more efficient and the longer neck insures the GC will not be seated below the case neck.

[Larry Gibson]

The .222 is the better of the 2 cartridges for cast bullets becuase of the longer neck. The importance of the longer neck has to do with keeping the GC inside the neck and not seated down below the neck. The 12" twist will get you very good accuracy with 55-60 gr cast bullets upwards of 2200 fps but a 14" twist will be best for better accuracy above that velocity. The 14" twist was/is the standard twist for the .222. The 14" twist will stabilize those bullets just fine BTW.

Larry Gibson

[JeffinNZ]

Does anyone chamber a .222 Rem these days? I agree with the boys on the longer neck being a bonus.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Thank you!

[felix]

Long necks are a requirement when the throat has zero (or very short) freebore, otherwise not. ... felix

[82nd airborne]

Remingtons are getting worse and worse as time goes on. The Tikka is my favorite modern boltgun....for now anyways.
Im not saying the 700 isnt a good gun, because I like them alot, but you have to do alot of work to them to make them how they should have been when it left the factory.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

bought my bride her own 700!

[Houndog]

I prefer the CZ for SMALL caliber rounds. I've fooled with several and with a little trigger work all were good shooters and the ones I've fooled with were all steel! My next favorite is the new Remington on the mini Mauser action (NOT a 700) This action was designed with the 222-223 class round in mind. I favor the 222 for what you are trying to do and for all the reasons others have posted.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

of I'll be a

[BCall]

I think the NOE is a great mold to start out with. Ranchdog also sells a good 22 mold and it is in stock right now. I use both of them. I love the 222 and it's long neck. I don't even own a 223, but if I did, it would soon be a 222 or 222 mag. The Bator mold is also available from Midsouth for not much money, but I have yet to have as good of results with it as I did with the NOE or RD molds. Others have, but I haven't found a good combo yet.

The NOE is a copy of the RCBS 22-55-SP mold, and it is a good one.

[telebasher]

I've got my eye on a Savage model 25 in the 222. it has a 1-14 twist. Should be a great cast boolit shooter. Have not seen a dealer with one in stock to check out and hold.

[Larry Gibson]

Yes the NOE bullet is a good place to start as is 225415, especially in HP form for varmints. Bach when I was getting the M788s in 222 Rem and rechambering them to .223 for others I shot a couple with several cast bullets. I also had a nice M700V to play with. I was using, still am for that matter, 225415, 225438 and 225462. I found the 225462 (Lovern design) was consistently the more accurate bullet in the 2200 - 2400 + fps range. At that higher velocity it also was just as deadly on smaller varmints as was 225415 at 1800 - 2200 fps. I was also a very nice for hunting as all the lube grooves fit inside the .222s neck.

Foolishly I let the .222 M788 I had go because I had .223s and they were better...right? That was before I understood what RPM does to cast bullets at higher velocity. I have a M700V in .223 that I got new in '73. It has a 12" twist and I never understood why I couldn't get the same accuracy above 2200 fps that I was getting with the .222s. I started using Oehler chronographs in '75 so the velocities are measured not guestimated. I was "advised" it was advised by many "knowledgeable" shooters that it was simply because the .222 was the more inherently accurate cartridge. That didn't make sense to me because the M700V with the 12" twist .223 was more accurate with J bullets than the M788s (they all shot under moa and were accurate also) and as accurate as the M700V in .222 Rem. But then what did I know anyways......now I understand what the RPM is doing to the cast bullets in flight and know what the reason for the better accuracy at higher velocity is with cast bullets in those rifles.

The M700V in .223 has killed a lot of ground squirrels, rock chucks, prarie dogs, crows, magpies, coyotes, a few deer and even 2 elk over the years. I've already set the barrel back and rechambered to clean up the throat twice. She has about one good prarie dog or ground squirrel shoot left in her then the barrel will be replaced witha 14" twist in .222 pretty much for cast bullets only. The M25 Savage looks like a very good option for a new rifle. I've a M40 in 22 Hornet and it is an excellent shooter.

Larry Gibson

[Crash_Corrigan]

I have the CZ Model 527 FS in .223 Remington. It is a light and small rifle that is a pleasure to carry and shoot. For a prariere dog shoot with lots of rounds fired this would not be ideal as the barrel is light and thin. It heats up fast.

However loaded with cast boolits and light loadings it will print 1/2" groups at 100 yds all day long and is a death ray on small game. With the Leupold scope and the graduations on it I can hit what I can see at 300 yds also.

This rifle comes with a single set trigger that is astounding in feel and crispness. This is a rifle you can carry all day long and it does not feel like a burden.

When I want to reach out further to touch something then I use my 6.5 x 55 Sweede Custom rifle. This is a heavyweight bench gun but can be used in the field if you do not mind the weight. With this rifle and 140 j word bullets I get 1/4" groups at 100 and I can hit whatever I can see out to over 400 yds. That long and thin boolit really rides the wind well and maintains energy over the long haul. It is favored in Scandanavia for Moose and other large game animals and has been successful in that endeavor for over 100 years.

[Bullshop]

Larry
I am with you on the twist thingy. I was working with a Savage 1/9" twist 223 AI and doing OK with both NOE designs being the 64gn FN and the 72gn RN somewhere in the 2500 fps range. I was loading up and down the full range between min and max with quite a number of powders appropriate for full power loads in the 223 case with these boolit weights. The 1/9 twist was doing OK but I just could not get below a certain level of accuracy at about .8 moa average.
I ordered an A&B barrel with 1/14" twist chambered for the 221 and I think on my second outing and maybe second or third powder tries I was averaging under .5 moa with the NOE 64gn FN. I even got a honest .25" group but only one. It seems to stay at about .5 average though with 16.4gn Re 7.
The reason I ordered the 221 barrel was that after several 100 shots with the 1/9" barrel and about a dozen different powders tried and several different primers I felt the only thing still holding me back was twist. Looks like maybe that was right.

[Larry Gibson]

Bullshop

Yup, the twist makes a difference; sometimes small but sometimes large depending on caliber and bullet. I keep saying if one has a choice in getting a rifle for cast bullets to get the slowest twist possible for the bullets to be used. That's the easiest way to get the best accuracy at higher velocities without a lot of "technique" involved in loading. However, if one has a rifle with a certain twist then one needs to understand how RPM are going to affect accuracy. Avoids a lot of frustration that way.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

And what would the 225462 (Lovern design) drop at? I know it is a discontinued mold . . . but . . . just curious!


My 225462 mould produces 58 -60 gr bullets, fully dressed, depending on alloy.

Larry Gibson

[stubshaft]

Did you give any thought to getting either a Hornet or K-hornet? Getting 2400fps is a breeze with either of them.

[JIMinPHX]

I think that you will have a hard time telling the difference in performance between a .222 & .223 with cast. The big difference is the amount of readily available brass in .223 cal & the fact that even at today's crazy prices, you can still find loaded .223 FMJ for around $8/box of 20. Good luck finding .222 ammo at a reasonable price.

I had a Rem 700 ADL that I bought new back around the late '80s. I later traded it in for a stainless rifle. That 700 is the one gun that I wish I never got rid of. It was a sweet rifle. It was a classic.

I've had poor results when I tried to go much above 50-grain slugs in a 1:12 twist .223. The faster twists seem to take the heavier (longer) projectiles better for me. If you will allow me to digress to blasphemy for a moment, when using the (70-gr?) green tip jacketed bullets in a 1:12 twist .223, the bullets went through the paper sideways at 50 feet when I shot them.

I've been having pretty good luck with the .223 cal boolits shown in post #10 on this thread - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=68853

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17541&d=1259642425

That's a Lyman 225415 with a 3/32" HP drilled into it. In this case, brass with a longer neck would have been better. That is only because the rifle that these are loaded for has a very long throat & I had to seat the boolit out that far to get it to touch the lands. I had poor accuracy with shorter COAL in that gun. I was able to get good accuracy with the Bator boolit at a shorter COAL because it has a more blunt point & it hit the lands sooner.

Beagle wrote up a real good 3-part series on cast in the .223. It's over on the cast pics section of the board. You should really look it up when you have some time on your hands. It's long, but it's a very good read.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

brass

[DCM]

Will the 1:14 favor heavier boolits than the 55-60 I mentioned?

The Greenhill formula will tell you the MINIMUM twist required to stabilize the boolits you want to use. http://kwk.us/twist.html

IMO I would try to stay with the slower twists for accuracy and reduced fouling.

[Charlie Sometimes]

See this link for added support for the 222 Remington-

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=106201

These are WAY over your "hoped for" range of 2200 - 2500 fps.
And the longer neck is better than seating out the boolits in the 223.
Search WWW for "222 Remington" and read all the hits you get- you will get a lot of good history and information on the round, which I think is far superior to the 223 for cast boolits.

I'd stay away from the short neck rounds for cast- they work, but you have to seat the bullet out. Of course you can seat in down in the case, too- that presents another set of conditions. (Article on that very subject in Feb 2011 issue of Handloader magazine).

I've had a 22 Hornet too, and it was excellent shooter also, but powder choice and capacity was very limited, and the clips used in most rifles for that round restrict COL, which effects or limits potential accuracy. That is why I moved up to 222 Remington.

Trade up or buy an older Remington in 222 - lots of them out there, and worth looking for, too.
Get a trim die for 222 and make your cases from the 223 for unlimited optional brass source.
They will need very little trimming, maybe 1/8 inch or so. There is a lot of 222 brass out there though, and it is not nearly as expensive as 221 Fireball, or some of the others.

[badbob454]

I think that you will have a hard time telling the difference in performance between a .222 & .223 with cast. The big difference is the amount of readily available brass in .223 cal & the fact that even at today's crazy prices, you can still find loaded .223 FMJ for around $8/box of 20. Good luck finding .222 ammo at a reasonable price.

I had a Rem 700 ADL that I bought new back around the late '80s. I later traded it in for a stainless rifle. That 700 is the one gun that I wish I never got rid of. It was a sweet rifle. It was a classic.

I've had poor results when I tried to go much above 50-grain slugs in a 1:12 twist .223. The faster twists seem to take the heavier (longer) projectiles better for me. If you will allow me to digress to blasphemy for a moment, when using the (70-gr?) green tip jacketed bullets in a 1:12 twist .223, the bullets went through the paper sideways at 50 feet when I shot them.

I've been having pretty good luck with the .223 cal boolits shown in post #10 on this thread - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=68853

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17541&d=1259642425

That's a Lyman 225415 with a 3/32" HP drilled into it. In this case, brass with a longer neck would have been better. That is only because the rifle that these are loaded for has a very long throat & I had to seat the boolit out that far to get it to touch the lands. I had poor accuracy with shorter COAL in that gun. I was able to get good accuracy with the Bator boolit at a shorter COAL because it has a more blunt point & it hit the lands sooner.

Beagle wrote up a real good 3-part series on cast in the .223. It's over on the cast pics section of the board. You should really look it up when you have some time on your hands. It's long, but it's a very good read.

A BULLET AT .5 TO .8 IS BETTER THAN A BULLET SIDEWAYS.... i have had an older
handi rifle that was a 1-12" twist and would not stabilize the longer bullets green tip 65gr. and longer j words ... ammo is much cheaper , and plentifull , is a nato round, probably never go away , and my new handi rifle is a 223 in a 1-9" twist 20 shots in a 1" circle at 100 yds. j word if i can get 20 in a 2" circle at 100 yds or better with cast boolits i can work with velocity to get it where i want it .with 45 gr to 75 ish bullets , i should find one to digest and get exellent results ,,,, my humble opinion

[JIMinPHX]

Another thing to consider is that a lot of .222 cal rifles sell for reasonable money because the ammo for them tends to be rather expensive. This is a problem for the average shooter, but not as much of a problem for the hand loader. If you find a nice .222 for a good price... well, you know.

When I read that H&R went to a 1:9 twist in the Handi-Rifles, I went & ordered one. When it showed up, it was 1:12. I'm still looking for a 1:9 Handi barrel. The only 1:9 experience I have is in auto-loaders.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Look what I just bought! . . . http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=16050290364&si=xrsXmH2z0UDbtubGde1hPBfe%252FZg%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT#ht_500wt_1156

[Charlie Sometimes]

That is a decent buy on the mold- you can't do too much better. :smile:

I think the rifle is over priced for the condition, IMHO. Looks like a late 60's/ early 70's styling, and the porting looks sorta hack jobish. Not needed on a 222, anyway. You can come up with a really good Remington in the $500-$700 range easy, just keep watching. I've seen them on GB- mostly when I didn't have the money! :roll:

I haven't tried the 225462 in any of my rifles- but I don't think I need too, now. I'm happy with my selection, and results, so far. :grin: I tried the Bator in the 22 Hornet and it didn't do very well there. I prefer the 225415 styles best, and they seem to work for me. The 225438 worked very well in the Hornet, too. I will try it in the 222 soon enough.

[Kirk Miller]

Congratulations Shawn. I too was looking hard at that mold. Maybe next one.
Kirk

[HiVelocity]

I've had on order a Stevens Model 200 boltgun for months.

I got the call today that the distributor had several coming in. Price was under $350 delivered.

I understand that this is a "Sleeper". All of a sudden people all over the US ordered this particular rifle and that considered a "value gun" that overall accuracy was superb.

We'll see. But for the price I paid, rings, scope, .........hmmm.........under $400?

It should do fine for coyotes here in SC.[smilie=w:

HiVelocity in SC

[1Shirt]

A decent buy on the mold. Mine won't shoot in my 722 because of twist and it is to long. However in my Sav. w/1-9 twist shoots like a champ. I would listen to Jiminphx, he has a pretty good handle on it from my perspective.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[MT Gianni]

I've had on order a Stevens Model 200 boltgun for months.

I got the call today that the distributor had several coming in. Price was under $350 delivered.

I understand that this is a "Sleeper". All of a sudden people all over the US ordered this particular rifle and that considered a "value gun" that overall accuracy was superb.

We'll see. But for the price I paid, rings, scope, .........hmmm.........under $400?

It should do fine for coyotes here in SC.[smilie=w:

HiVelocity in SC

Mine is very accurate but requires a lot of thought to deal with the trigger. Concentration has helped it shoot 5/8" groups with j-word bullets @ 100 yards.

[JIMinPHX]

That is a nice looking rifle on Gunbroker. I too like the German stuff. The price is a more than I would pay though. Then again, I tend to be a bit on the frugal side.

There are some pretty nice Rem 700-CDL rifles sitting on the rack at my local Sportsman's Warehouse. If I was looking to spend that kind of money, I'd probably walk home with a brand new CDL & a few extra accessories to go with it.

Being the tight wad that I am, I'll just stick with my $200ish Handi-Rifle for now.

[Kirk Miller]

Yep' I'll take the blame for that one. You'll just have to beat me to death with a .22
gc. :grin:

[MakeMineA10mm]

Remington makes a good rifle in the 700 and I own a couple of them. MY, personal choice leans toward the SAKO as I have 9 of those.

In regards to your choice of caliber, either one will work well in a 12" twist. If I had to choose one I would go with the 222. A little more efficient and the longer neck insures the GC will not be seated below the case neck.

Stub, 9 of them?!? Nice! I have but one, an L461 in 222 Rem. I love it. I haven't shot cast in it, but if I was going to choose between that one 222 I own, or the numerous 223s, I'd pick the 222 for the longer neck and smaller capacity, as well as it's reputation for accuracy with J-word bullets.

Stub, do you know of a source for replacement stocks for the L461?? My original wood one has a crack in it, and it's bearing against the barrel, causing some inaccuracy. I'd clean up the barrel channel, but with the wood already being cracked, I don't want to put the work into it. I was thinking maybe a synthetic or better still a laminate stock (wood just looks so much better on them).

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

I agree WOOD looks much better!

[stubshaft]

Stub, 9 of them?!? Nice! I have but one, an L461 in 222 Rem. I love it. I haven't shot cast in it, but if I was going to choose between that one 222 I own, or the numerous 223s, I'd pick the 222 for the longer neck and smaller capacity, as well as it's reputation for accuracy with J-word bullets.

Stub, do you know of a source for replacement stocks for the L461?? My original wood one has a crack in it, and it's bearing against the barrel, causing some inaccuracy. I'd clean up the barrel channel, but with the wood already being cracked, I don't want to put the work into it. I was thinking maybe a synthetic or better still a laminate stock (wood just looks so much better on them).

I've seen stocks show up on Gunbroker and flea bay once in a while. If there is a crack in the barrel channel, the way I used to repair those was to route out the channel and glass bed a section of 3/8" aluminum rod in it. Makes it stiffer with no weight penalty.

[CENTEX BILL]

Hello fellow casters:

I have read this thread with interest. Not sure this is the right forum, but here goes.
There has been discussions about various rifles available in 222. I have a Remington 799 (Mini-Mauser) in 222 that is excess to my needs. I bought this rifle for my step daughter as a Christmas present since she told her mother that she wanted a rifle. After Christmas, we went to the range and discovered that she is right handed and left eye dominant. She shot well after switching from right shoulder to left shoulder. However the bolt action is not convenient to shoot from the left shoulder. I took the rifle back and got her a H&R handi rifle in 223 which she is learning with and enjoying.

Since I have more rifles than I have time to shoot, I wish to sell this rifle to a good home. This rifle shoots well and now only as about a 100 rounds down the tube. I will let this go for $425 plus shipping to you FFL. Send me a PM for pictures.

Thanks,

Centex Bill

[Charlie Sometimes]

Should be posted on Swap & Sell, not here.

[rhbrink]

I sure do like my L461 Vixen, 222 Mag with a 14" twist. Throat is plenty short if I was ever to do anything with it I would set the barrel back and rechamber to a 222 Rem. The longer neck would be great for cast boolits. 22 boolits sure are fun to shoot!:lol:

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Gunbroker . . .

[rhbrink]

Mine is a older one bought it in '72 it has the floor plate. Actually I bought it as a barreled action and bought a stock from Fagen in Warsaw Mo. and finished the stock myself. I don't have any idea how it would compare to the newer Model 85.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I sure do like my L461 Vixen, 222 Mag with a 14" twist. Throat is plenty short if I was ever to do anything with it I would set the barrel back and rechamber to a 222 Rem. The longer neck would be great for cast boolits. 22 boolits sure are fun to shoot!:lol:

The 222 Mag should have the same neck length as the non mag 222. IIRC, the only difference is the case is around 1/8 inch longer. You should be able to get the same performance from it, as the 222 with cast boolits. In fact it should be even better than a 223 also. :)

[rhbrink]

The 222 Mag should have the same neck length as the non mag 222. IIRC, the only difference is the case is around 1/8 inch longer. You should be able to get the same performance from it, as the 222 with cast boolits. In fact it should be even better than a 223 also. :)

neck length 222-----.313

222Mag-.264

.223-----.203

[Charlie Sometimes]

neck length 222-----.313

222Mag-.264

.223-----.203

Thanks- I hadn't had the chance to check for the data yet.
I was thinking it was the same or real close, but it fell in between, dang. :sad:
Back to your original idea, or maybe try some of the shorter 22 boolits (225438, 225415)- that is a little more than one caliber of depth, so it might do better than you think. My 225438 mold has a sufficiently short body to fit in there- that might be worth a try.

[rhbrink]

I shoot the 225415 in mine and it shoots very well, just have to seat it about a deep as possible in the case the gas check is almost hanging below the base of the neck. Another problem is that the 222 Mag case plus boolit is almost too long to work through the magazine. It does but barely, the L461 was actually designed for the 222 Rem with the Mag and .223 added later. The magazine box will accept only 2.3" ammo with slightly shorter being better. Still one of my favorite rifles there has been a lot of guns come and go over the years but I have kept this one just shoots too good to part with.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Oh, so that explains it- a manufacturers short cut to save retooling and the additonal related changes, etc., ends up costing you the shooter because you can't get the full utilization of the round. :sad:

I guess setting back teh barrel is about the cheapest option you have then. :sad:

The 225438 is shorter than the 225415, still yet.

[Rocky Raab]

I'm interested in the slow end. Does anybody have a tested recipe for cast bullets down to perhaps 700 fps? I read the Beagle series and found a few loads at about 1,000, but I'd still like to find some a bit slower if possible.

[felix]

A load, no. I have used 2.5 grains of BE (or equivalent). Will for sure do it out of a 24 inch barrel. Try 2.0, but be ready to ram out the boolit. Use toilet paper wad over powder. This was used to de-lead in the past, and gives a nice boolit to measure when shot into a swimming pool. 2.5 WILL drive the boolit 12 feet down to hit pool bottom (no boolit harm). ... felix

[rhbrink]

I'm interested in the slow end. Does anybody have a tested recipe for cast bullets down to perhaps 700 fps? I read the Beagle series and found a few loads at about 1,000, but I'd still like to find some a bit slower if possible.

Yep in a .223 Encore lube a 225415 with LLA or the .45 .45 .10 mix don't size the boolit or the case. Used a small pistol primer and 1.0 grain of Bullseye got to be carefull here cause that ain't much powder. I was using the same case over and over figured there would be less chance of a screw up that way. Load and fire then repeat. I was shooting at 50 feet indoors and they shot very well about like a better air rifle and maybe only a little bit louder. I did go down to 1/2 grain of Bullseye expecting to stick a boolit but it didn't happen boolit made it to the target but accuracy wasn't much kinda sounded like a wet fart! The 1.0 grain load was much better and shot surprizingly well. Just be carefull it would be easy to stick a boolit and not realize it then fire another behind it, wouldn't be good.

[felix]

I used normal loaded cartridges; just the powder was manipulated. Your gun, Rocky, might not have a tight neck and let too much gas escape for a 0.5 grain powder load, for example. ... felix

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=270703928770&si=xrsXmH2z0UDbtubGde1hPBfe%252FZg%253D&viewitem=#ht_500wt_1156

[stubshaft]

My bid topped out at $66.66.

[Rocky Raab]

Thanks for the "mouse load" advice. I plan to use TiteGroup because it is designed for tiny charges in large cases. My hopes are to duplicate 22 Short through 22 Magnum loads in the 223. I'll be using cast bullets generously provided by board members for those loads.

[felix]

I had no idea TightGroup had large kernals. ... felix

[Rocky Raab]

Wrong concept, felix. It doesn't have large kernels. It is, however, almost completely position INsensitive as well as very easy to fully ignite.

[felix]

Come back with a load, Rocky, and I will use it too! I would be happy with all boolits touching at 50 FEET. ... felix

[Rocky Raab]

My range doesn't open until April, but I certainly will do that, felix.

[Charlie Sometimes]

You might try Trail Boss.

It will nearly fill the case, and I think I saw someone post about using it in a 223 on here somwhere before.

Hodgdon has some loading recommendations about using it in bottle neck cartridges on their web site, and how to arrive at a Max and Min load range.

I plan on trying it eventually, to see what results I get and if I get any leading at lower velocity. I had that issue when I had a 22 Hornet, and used the data on Lil Gun that Beagle provided in his articles on Gun Loads. I found the faster I drove mine the better my accuracy, and the less leading I had, too. Seems to be holding true in my 222 also, but I have not fired "slow" loads, yet.

[felix]

Rocky, try for 3 shot groups, but actually 2 shot groups would suffice. It's best to have several 2 shot groups on the same piece of paper, each group 30 minutes apart. Just enough to show the load is consistent enough for back yard stuff. Shooting any more than that would bring the cops around here big time. Targets: mice, rats, and starlings. Yes, I have them. Currently using Kimber 82 with Eley subsonics which will do a 5 shot group randomly in the low twos (16X scope). ... felix

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

[smilie=s:

[Charlie Sometimes]

Those 700 Classics are nice, and priced a little above the going rate for what other quality rifles of the same caliber can be purchased, depending on your area. And taht is a good price with that scope already installed, too.

If you get one off GB, make sure you get at least a 3 day inspection period. There is a lot to be said for physical inspection, even if you have to foot the bill for return shipping when it doesn't meet your standards or expectations.

[azcruiser]

Shawn I sent you an email I think=Darn I miss my secretary

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnVT/Guns/IMG_0006-1.jpg

[stubshaft]

Now I know whom I was bidding against!LOL

[altheating]

A friend got me hooked on the 222 this spring, so I bought two of them. Both in old Remington 700 ADL's. Both like new, I put Leupold 4-12's on both of them. One is a tack driver, the other needs a bit of work. Both were fire lapped with great success. The older of the two rifles needs a few more lapping rounds through it to get it to print better. I also am waiting for that NOE 22-055 FN mould to be shipped! I'm sure my buddy will be glad when it gets here too. I think he has cast me over 2000 of them little buggers so far this spring. And the last batch is almost all gone! Hint... Hint... Hint.. to Screwbolts

[altheating]

Lets try this. Here are three groups that were shot from the newer 700ADL 222
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/122654dd8039e1040c.jpg

[azcruiser]

Shawn still have that 222 Sako with the stock issues and after cleaning my garage I found I have a Contender Pistol in 222 rem think it's 10in .If you would like to check one or both out for a month or so let me know . Heck I'll meet you half way between Chandler and Wilcox but would have to be a Monday or Sunday .If you interested give me a call late evenings is best time to call .

[MT Gianni]

After playing with the 223 Stevens 200 at the NCBS it needs some refining. My best was the 225646 followed by the RCBS 55 and the Bator. All were loaded over 7 gr Unique and good for around 1 1/4 to 1 1/2" @ 100 yards. All had one flyer which with the factory trigger is to be common though not expected.

[azcruiser]

Between the Tikka and the CZ . I like the CZ 527 LUX better because of the extra 3 in of barrel.
23.6 VS 20.5 compared to the 527 FS. The FS looks cool with the full stock but in the DRY AZ weather stocks sometimes warp or split ? The 527 Varmint with the Kevlar stock solves that but only comes in 223 or 204 rug then again 223 brass is everywhere retail and on the ground .222
don't find it laying around much . The Tikka's haven't seen one in 222 and since Beretta purchased them I think their not as good as they were had friends with problems little things breaking like safety's ? CZ 222 or 223 think is the way to go . A friend shoots for Team CZ Angus Hobdell he had or has a shop in Mesa see if i can find his number if you want ?