My first casting

[brnomauser]

I've been reading this forum a lot. Yesterday I gave casting a go for the first time. I'm wanting small game hunting loads for my 243, as well as for plinking. I want a medium power load for longer range and a sub sonic load as I'm allowed a silencer (UK). This is also a pre-curser to getting a 30-06 which I will cast my main deer hunting bullets for.

I'm using my forge with a dimmer switch on the blower for heat control. Pot is a cut down gas cylinder - the legs I wleded on fit in the wheel rim nicely.
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee33/harrygrey382/P1000779.jpg

Mold handles and ladel are home made
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee33/harrygrey382/P1000782.jpg

It was obvious immediately the ladel was too small - a full load didn't quite give a generous sprue. I tink I blame this for the bottoms of the bullets being a bit rounded. Am I right?
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee33/harrygrey382/P1000800.jpg
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee33/harrygrey382/P1000795.jpg

Early on the bullets were coming out at .2445" - when it warmed up they all came out at .246" all within .0005 round. They were all falling out without tapping.

After I had a few I sorted them. I discarded about 50% based on how well formed the base was. I kept ones like this
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee33/harrygrey382/P1000803.jpg

And will melt ones like this
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee33/harrygrey382/P1000805.jpg

Mold is a Lyman 85gr. They mostly came out at 85gr ish. Lead is 50% linotype 50% lead.

I'm waiting for the gas checks, then will try and get some 4198 for the quicker loadsa and use trail boss for the sub sonics.

Question is, will I need gas checks for the sub sonics, and what charge should I start at?

Otherwise some general comments would be good? How did I do, are these bullets ok looking? Did my technique look ok? One thing I noticed was that when I held the ladel to the mold and tipped them both, as the ladel only has one spout it all ran into one cavity. Do you then do it for the other, or just let it spill over into the other? Maybe I'll make a dual spout ladel?

ALso, I slugged my bore at .243. I've tried sizing them and they size at 243 - .2425 with my lee sizer. I haven't shot them yet, but wonder if it's even worth chasing a load with these when they're sized that small? Should I just polish out the sizer before firing?

I will try some LLA first as I have it, but have some RCBS stick lube ont the way. I also have a RCBS lube-sizer coming so may end up ditching the lee sizer.

[brnomauser]

Also, I didn't flux. Maybe this was a mistake. I kept skimming off this crud.
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee33/harrygrey382/P1000796.jpg

Should I have fluxedit? What with - candle wax or sawdust?

[RobS]

Fluxing will help put the antimony back in the melt. The problem I see is you don't know what temp your alloy is at and so the dross you were taking off the top could have been the antimony from the lino and this can be fluxed back in. A thermometer will tell you alot regarding the alloy and keep your boolits consistent from the first to the last boolit cast. As you went along it is possible that your alloy changed as you continued to spoon out the dross which could have resulted in less and less antimony as you continued to cast. Mold temp appears to be pretty good once you got to going as your bullets have good fillout etc. The ones that have rounded edges shows your mold is running a bit cool. Really not too bad and I like the homemade equipment.

[brnomauser]

Fluxing will help put the antimony back in the melt. The problem I see is you don't know what temp your alloy is at and so the dross you were taking off the top could have been the antimony from the lino and this can be fluxed back in. A thermometer will tell you alot regarding the alloy and keep your boolits consistent from the first to the last boolit cast. As you went along it is possible that your alloy changed as you continued to spoon out the dross which could have resulted in less and less antimony as you continued to cast. Mold temp appears to be pretty good once you got to going as your bullets have good fillout etc. The ones that have rounded edges shows your mold is running a bit cool. Really not too bad and I like the homemade equipment.

Thanks Rob. Ok, well I think I'll add the crud back in next time. I might run it a bit hotter too. I can't really afford a thermometer right now but it's on the list. What would you suggest for flux? So the rounded edges aren't because I'm not filling it enough?

[stubshaft]

Very inventive. If I may though, I would mount the mould with the sprue cutter on the right side.

[lwknight]

The alloy might be too hot already if dross build up is excessive.
Fluxing will put the alloy back together but will not make any difference once it is burned off.
I would say use candle wax for the reductant (flux) and then you might keep a thin layer of saw dust on top to help reduce the oxidation. You can rake it aside to dip the ladle.

As for the rounded bases , you could try pressure casting if your ladle has a round spout that will seal on the mold. Otherwise just cast one cavity at a time to get a generous spru.

The wax will autoignite without warning and scare you. If it don't light then you might be casting too cool and you can toss a match on it to light it. The burning wax will also raise your pot temp.

[EMC45]

Your "keepers" look like good bullets. I commend you on your set-up as well. I would get a thermometer next up. Then you can regulate the temp of your alloy. Also like others have said, flux all that melt. You will keep more of your metals in there as opposed to skimming everything off.

[RobS]

Thanks Rob. Ok, well I think I'll add the crud back in next time. I might run it a bit hotter too. I can't really afford a thermometer right now but it's on the list. What would you suggest for flux? So the rounded edges aren't because I'm not filling it enough?


Candle wax will work for your flux. The rounded edges can be due to mold temp or venting issues. You were later producing good boolits so it appears that mold temp helped fix things. However your mold may not be venting as well as needed and I would look first into the sprue plate as it was only the base you were having problems with. I like my sprue plates to open easily and adjust mine so when I situate the mold on its side the sprue plate will almost open on its own and only takes me a small shake of the mold for the plate to open. Many times things are just too tight when they come in new. You asked about having a larger sprue pool on top of the mold and this does help the cavity draw the lead into the mold and proper venting eases this process.

[Greg]

Brnomauser


I really enjoyed your post and the great pictures.

You are correct in culling-out any boolits that do not have a sharply defined base or bands. once the mould gets to ‘operating’ temperature, the boolits will stabilize to common weight and diameter.

First thing that I might do, would be to use some of the pure lead, and to slug the throat of my rifle(s)…adjust your push thru sizer die to about a half a thousandths (.0005) of an inch smaller than this diameter.

and yes, fluxing your alloy is always best. I use candle stubs, beeswax, boolit lube, (as available) to introduce the antimony and tin back into the alloy. Sawdust works wonders also, and can be left atop the melt (as charcoal) to isolate the alloy from the atmosphere to lessen the oxidation of the alloy.

That stuff (slag) that you tossed away…get it back, and reintroduce it into your alloy by fluxing.

I pour each cavity by holding the ladle to the mold and tipped them both, then quickly doing the other cavity the same way. I also some times alternate by filling the other cavity first next go round. It is sometimes called pressure pouring.

I have limited experience with shooting gas check boolits sans the check.

I have had great success shooting plain base boolits at moderate velocity, even with, or especially with, soft alloy - 50/50 - ww/pb.

I have not shot any Trailboss, yet.

I would think that a well fitted boolit at moderate velocity with Trailboss would be successful and readily achieved. remember that a Rifle starts to CRACK at a velocity/pressure range that is usually above unprotected boolit base perimeters.


As I cast for years with a heat source and an open pot, I have some hard won opinions.

A thermometer and an electric pot are great tools, but not essential to successful Cast Boolit shooting. They just make repeatability easier by having a reference point that is easily returned to, time and again.

A sizer/lubricator does make life a lot easer. but, a lot of great Rifle shooting can be done before one is acquired.

[Greg]

BrnoMauser

Two other things that I missed in my first post…

I place my sprue plate handle on the right side (myself being right handed);

I wear a heavy leather glove on my right hand.

I use my right hand to push open the sprue plate.

after placing the dipper in the leadpot as I empty the mould.


I really must stand in awe to a man that makes his own leadpot and mould handles and mentions making a double spouted dipper as casual as some might open a beverage.

I humbly apply for an apprenticeship.

[Phat Man Mike]

wow that's some nice pictures!! my hat's off to you!! nice looking setup!

[Doby45]

brnomauser what you have done ALREADY is amazing.. Prior to even getting a thermometer, I would suggest you get a Lee 20lb bottom pour pot. This one thing in and of itself will change your whole casting life at this stage. You will better be able to regulate your temp and your ability to pour multiple cavities.

Also, what you have got right now will NOT go to waste because it would make an excellent ingot smelting setup.

Do not be discouraged because as I said you have an awesome job with what you have now, but for double the cost of a reasonable thermometer you have yourself a very very good start with a bottom pour pot..

[onondaga]

When I began casting in 1957, I had no instructions except what I saw in Davey Crockett movies. We learn a lot by trial and error. The first good mold I ever got, a few years later, did have instructions! Still remember the beginners rule of thumb for checking alloy temp. Use a tightly rolled newspaper and touch it to the top of the melt. It should severely char or start the paper on fire. Without a thermometer, that old rule still works pretty well. Learning to "Read" your cast bullets for mold temperature is great too. From too frosty to too shiny=too hot to too cold. learn the difference between voids and ripples from poor fill out and learn to correct the causes.

Your mold is backwards in the handle. Tapping the sprue plate open with a leather mallet is way easier with the mold turned around and opening by hand instead of a mallet will train you to open your molds too early. Turn it around and you will be striking the sprue plate tab away from you instead of pulling or striking it toward you. You will find that easier and safer. Opening early will chunk out partially hardened metal at the location of the sprue gate hole instead of giving you a clean cut. This will widen bullet weight variance if you chunk out the bullet base. A few extra seconds of cooling will also allow your bullets to drop out more easily and they will be less fragile at the moment you drop them so damage to them will be less.

Gary

[Doby45]

Sounds like an old school cigarette lighter, Gary. ;) Wonder if any of our smokers have ever done that, lit a cig on their sprue?

[EMC45]

Very cool house BTW! And also as Gary said flip your mold around in your handles. It will make life WAY easier.

[Three44s]

GOOD JOB Brnomauser!!!

Very good first outing!

I am also for using a hard wood handle or leather wrapped mallet stick for knocking your sprue plate open.

That round bottom on your boolits was likely your mold needing to come up to temp.

Flux, and run ingots ......... then flux and run boolits ......... I like to clean and reclean and then pour!

I think that your gross amount of "dross" was more tin than antinomy. Either way you don't want to lose those.

A belated welcome to the forum ......... and in no time at all ........... you are going to be an "old salt" around here with a first performance like that!!!!!

Three 44s

[frkelly74]

You are going to want a bottom pour furnace. It will spoil you within the first six boolits. I am the other way around as I began with a small bottom pour and now am in need of a better way to smelt scrap. Silencers are illegal in Michigan , other states allow them if you have the federal TAX stamp but you still can't use them for hunting. How unenlightened!

[Southern Son]

brnomauser,
When I cast that close to the house, my missus will usually threaten to turn the hose on me. What did you forge before converting you forge to smelting?

[adrians]

:very nice set-up ,i think i could use something like that for smelting my WW's to pour into ingots ,and yes as stated flux ,flux and more flux that "dross" you chunk has a ton of tin and antimony in it ( especially if it is a 50/50 lino,pure pb mix ) can't let that get away from ya and a layer of sawdust on top of the melt will curb oxidization and as also stated you can just push it to the edge to fill your ladle.
i don't use the pressure pour technique but a mold up to temp and a constant pour rythm should allieviate your slightly rounded bases(i would have kept the ones that were rounded ,the g/c would take care of that little deal) so long as your lube grooves were up to parr,.
anyhow i love your set-up i need one,now you got my wheels turning :coffee:.
where do you hunt deer in england ?,
i'm from halifax (yorkshire) but been here in the good ole u.s.a. 23 years now,, how time flies,have a great evening adrians,.:evil:[smilie=s::twisted:

[brnomauser]

Thanks for the kind and encouraging commenst guys. As I have read several times here, casting becomes addictive! Not least because I have almost shot all my good bullets in initial load testing... I'm ready for some more! Here's my first range raport. Once I establish some higher velocity loads, esecially with the HVA 30-06 I've got coming I can't really see any more use for J bullets ;)

So I had retrieved the slag I removed and will flux it back in. PLENTY of sawdust around and I'll dig up some old candles. I'll mount the mold the other way. Greg - in your method do you mean keeping the mold tilted the whole time you're pouring and never keeping it vertical till the end? I found when trying to pour just one cavity, it was hard not to let any spill into the other one. Then I assumed I couldn't top it up because there'd be a join line. Am I wrong - is it ok to fill a cavity in stages? Good tip on the newspaper by the way.

I want to see if I can get the hang of an open ladel and pot for the moment. Bottom pour stuff and a thermometer may be a luxury, but that also involves money... Not so common round here.

I don't have a problem casting close to the house, she's a tollerant one! I built the forge originally to harden knives. Well it was originally for one knife - my hunting/bush craft knife. I couldn't find one that suited my needs at an affordable price so I had to make one. I've done a few since. But now I also forge general iron mungary - hinges, bolts, gutter brackets etc. Even a new bolt handle for my Mauser. It's not really converted to casting, the legs are welded to the pot...

I live in Norfolk, so that's where I hunt deer. There are a lot for Roe, Muntjac and Reds. The are some Fallow, but never seen or eaten any... Yorkshire is aminly Roe is it not?

[Greg]

BrnoMauser

I start my pour with the mould rotated to the right and mate the spout of the dipper (Lyman) to the sprueplate and then rotate to upright. You have to back the dipper spout off contact with the sprueplate slightly to form the (sprue) puddle.

Then quickly start the next cavity, but I can’t say that I start the (second cavity) pour with as much tilt applied to the mould, it’s more of a hop/slide and pour. The sprue of the first cavity is still molten…usually I watch both sprue puddles frost as one. Occasionally it is two separate puddles, and sometimes just one. It has happened that there is a run down the side of the mould.

I went back and re-looked at the pictures…and I see that your dipper is somewhat
different that what I use. the Lyman (and RCBS) has a nipple that mates with the countersink of the sprueplate ( I guess for tight tilting )

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bullet-casting/casting-dipper.php

I can see that you’ll not have such a tight seal between mould and dipper, but I think that you can still use the mass of molten lead in your dipper to help force the last bit of air out the mould.

I like my sprue plate to rotate of it’s own weight when the mold is up to operating (hot) temp, cold out of the cabinet it will slightly drag. you’ll know when it’s too loose, just have the screwdriver handy to adjust to suite you.

with a slight swing to the sprue plate, the air that is trapped (causing the round edge base) can get gone. you can use a #2 pencil to put a coat of graphite to both the mould top and underside of the sprue plate.

It’s all a matter of rhythm…just keep practicing

[Recluse]

I will try some LLA first as I have it, but have some RCBS stick lube ont the way. I also have a RCBS lube-sizer coming so may end up ditching the lee sizer.

Don't ditch the Lee sizer--they make for an excellent and easy way to install gas checks.

I use my Lee push-through sizing dies to install all of my rifle caliber gas checks. Then, in the lubesizer, I use a die that is .001 larger than the diameter of my boolit so that I am lubing only. Keeps all the pressure of the nose of the boolit while in the lubesizer and ensures I do not get any bent boolits or malformed noses on the boolits.

:coffee: