New Lyman Issues

[burch]

Just recieved my new Lyman 358477 mold in the mail yesterday and figured i`d fire up the casting furnace and give it a try. Does this mold need a break-in period or am I doin` something wrong. I figured i`d load a couple pics so everyone feel free to pick `em apart `cause I can always use a learnin`

burch :redneck:

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/th_Lyman358477001.jpg (http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/?action=view&current=Lyman358477001.jpg)

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/th_Lyman358477002.jpg (http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/?action=view&current=Lyman358477002.jpg)

[GP100man]

burch

The last mold I purchased new was a 314299 ,I cleaned it then boiled it for 5 min , cleaned again with denatured alcohol & let dry .

Preheated it . it smoked a little & stopped , but never threw a keeper until I run the pot up to 800f to cook off & get the pours of the mold to turn loose of the cutting fluid .

I cycled it twice like this & now it`s nice & blue & pours perfect boolits if I do my part !!

[RobS]

Many molds will take a some time to break in. I find that a new mold will start taking full form after two or three casting sessions; some happen to hit first time out though. Make sure to clean it well, dawn dishsoap and hot water, denatured alcohol, carb/choke cleaner, among many others and then go at it. I just wash with dawn dishsoap, scrub every which way with a toothbrush and use tap water as hot as it will go.

[burch]

YEA, I was thinking it`ll need some breakin` The top of the bullets are o.k. but the bottoms look frosted. I`m cookin` at 750 degree`s so i`ll up the temp to 800 and see if that`ll help some. Keep those tips comin` fellas and thanks to all. [smilie=s:

burch

[lurch]

Couple of pointers:

Some of the bases show the sprue hole definitely off center. Make sure that the sprue plate is fully closed when pouring. Sometimes If the plate is too loose it will tend to slide open a little on me and this happens. Tightening the sprue plate a little (but not too much...) helps this. You don't want it too tight especially with those split ring washers on the Lyman moulds as they sometimes have a tendency to "dig in". This can also cause the sprue plate to not to want to remain in the fully closed position. I replace those with belleville washers and that solves that problem.

The sprue looks like it is being cut too soon as you are getting some tear out. Let it sit a little longer before you cut it. This will increase you cycle time on the mould and make it run a little cooler. IF* the fill out issues are due to running the mould too cool, raising the alloy temperature or finding some other place in the pouring cycle to cut time will bring it back up.

* The fill out problems could also just be crud in the cavity and cleaning as suggested above will take care of that it that is the problem. The one on the right in the top picture looks like an oil in the mould issue to me. It looks like you are close though.

[bhn22]

Break the sprues with a gloved hand, not a stick. The first few may require a stick, but as the mould heats up, that need will go away. The result will be much smoother bases. Other than that it looks like you just may have your mould temp too cold. Make sure the mould is clean and that all the vents are open. You're on the right track.

[casterofboolits]

Many molds will take a some time to break in. I find that a new mold will start taking full form after two or three casting sessions; some happen to hit first time out though. Make sure to clean it well, dawn dishsoap and hot water, denatured alcohol, carb/choke cleaner, among many others and then go at it. I just wash with dawn dishsoap, scrub every which way with a toothbrush and use tap water as hot as it will go.

Plus one on the Dawn dish washing liquid. I normally scrub with a diluted solution two or three times with a new mould rinsing with hot tap water between scrubings. I use canned air to blow out the water and blot with a paper towel.

I set the mould on top of my lead pot to warm it up prior to casting. If I can't get good boolits after 10 or 12 cycles, I lightly smoke the cavities with a Bic lighter. This has never failed to start casting good boolits. I have approximatly 80 Lyman four cavity moulds and have cast several million boolit with them.

I used to have a boolit business and and hand cast my boolits with H&G, Lyman and Saeco moulds.

The bases of your boolits do look like you may be opening your mould too early.

:castmine:

[geargnasher]

Good observations so far. I notice that the nose end (bottom) of the mould is probably much cooler than the top part, you get light frost and good fillout on the base half of the boolits but the nose and front band don't want to fill out and are shiny, a classic case of Lyman block mass disparity. If you keep casting, or preheat the bottom of the mold on a hot plate, the temperature will eventually even out and you'll get lightly frosted boolits all over.

Judging by the frost on the base bands and the torn sprues, I'd say your alloy temp is actually a bit warm at 750, probably could be LESS, and your casting pace is fast enough, you just need to run another 20 or so pours to get the mould temp evened out.

Let the sprue set another second or two before cutting, and as has been said you might try using a gloved thumb and cut them when soft but firm rather than whacking them with a mallet or stick.

Gear

[leadman]

Check the sprue holes in the plate. many Lyman molds have a blunt edge to the hole. A countersink will remove enough metal to get a sharp edge which with a couple more seconds cooling should correct your problem.
smoking the mold with a wooden match or butane lighter will probably help also.
Also if your sprue plate screw loosens take a 10-32 bottoming tap and run it in the lock screw hole as most are threaded with a starting tap so the end of the threads in the hole are tapered in to a smaller dimension. you think the lock screw is tight to the sprue bolt but it is not.

[MtGun44]

Might be mold is cold, metal is hot. Try to cast faster or preheat the mold more.

gloved hand and Bull Plate lube will permit opening when just a hair off liquid phase without
smearing and with super low forces.

How are the diameters? Looks like maybe the front band is not filled out well. This is a
really great boolit design.

Bill

[Doby45]

That nose on that 477 is way rounder than the one I just sold. Mine had a sharp edge to the nose.

[JIMinPHX]

That's the very first mold that I ever owned. It's also one of the easiest casting molds that I've ever owned. My big mistake when I first got it was not lubing the sprue plate well enough, so I scratched the tops of some nice new virgin blocks. Oh well, live & learn. Bullplate lube is the cure for that mistake.

The only time that mold ever gave me any trouble was when it had contaminants (oil) in the cavities, or when it was too cold.

I later did some hot rod work on that mold & cam up with this - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=76745

I usually clean up my new molds with alcohol. I used to use brake cleaner, but that stuff doesn't play well with heat (poison fumes).

800F should be more than hot enough. I usually cast with WW around 650-720. You will need the mix to be hotter if you use an alloy closer to pure lead.

It normally takes me around 10 garbage casts to get good fill out if I pre heat the mold a little, & more like 25 garbage casts to get things going if I start with a cold mold.

[burch]

Couple of pointers:

Some of the bases show the sprue hole definitely off center. Make sure that the sprue plate is fully closed when pouring. Sometimes If the plate is too loose it will tend to slide open a little on me and this happens. Tightening the sprue plate a little (but not too much...) helps this. You don't want it too tight especially with those split ring washers on the Lyman moulds as they sometimes have a tendency to "dig in". This can also cause the sprue plate to not to want to remain in the fully closed position. I replace those with belleville washers and that solves that problem.

The sprue looks like it is being cut too soon as you are getting some tear out. Let it sit a little longer before you cut it. This will increase you cycle time on the mould and make it run a little cooler. IF* the fill out issues are due to running the mould too cool, raising the alloy temperature or finding some other place in the pouring cycle to cut time will bring it back up.

* The fill out problems could also just be crud in the cavity and cleaning as suggested above will take care of that it that is the problem. The one on the right in the top picture looks like an oil in the mould issue to me. It looks like you are close though.

on these " belleville washers " does the cone ( the smaller end ) go towards the mold block or towards the screw ?

[1Shirt]

The most cleaning I have ever done with any new mold was to wipe the cav and face interior face with alcohol (cue tips on cav) and start casting with the pot turned up as high as it would go. Usually had shootable w/o wrinkles inside of 30 or so, sometimes less. I also dip the molds in the melt (iron or alum) for about 30 seconds or so before I start casting. That is the way I was taught many years ago, and have broken in a number of molds that way over the years. Know this will go agin the grain of a number of folks out there, but it works for me, and I don't fix what isn't broken.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[MtGun44]

No difference for the bellevue washer unless there is a large hole in
the sprue plate the prevents the "tip" portion from hitting flat.

Bill

[lurch]

Yep - what Bill said... For purely anal retentive reasons I put the washer on "tip" up against the screw head. If the hole in the sprue plate is big enough that the washer tip is not making full contact then the hole is too big for the screw to keep the plate aligned properly in the first place.

[JIMinPHX]

I've always used the Belleville spring washers with the big end of the cup facing the sprue plate, but as long as both ends of the spring washer are sitting fully against flat surfaces, there should be no problem. If the diameter of the flat surface under your screw head is smaller than the OD of the spring washer, then you may have a performance issue if the big end of the washer faces the small screw head.

[burch]

o.k i`m trying again on this new mold. I cooked the melt at 700 degrees and cut the sprue at 10 seconds. I`ll have to admit that the tip on using the glove instead of the stick method works out quite well. It gives you the chance to keep the entire mold a lot cleaner than my method of using a popcicle stick. Also, it eliminates that constant pounding on your sprue plate. So thanks for that tip and i`ll be using it from now on. I haven`t tried the counter sink yet or some of the other tips `cause I wanted to see if I needed to use `em or not after another casting session at the recommended temp so feel free to elaborate on that. The bullets on the right are from the front cavity and the ones on the left are from the rear cavity that closest to the nut on the handles. The rear cavity seems to be a lot worst in my opinion ( for what that`s worth ). The bases didn`t seem to fill out as well as the front cavity. Anyhow, i`m wanting to hear some more suggestions and feel free to give `em both good and bad. I really thank you all for helping me get this mold up and runnin`
Burch

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/th_Lyman358477001-1.jpg (http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/?action=view&current=Lyman358477001-1.jpg)
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/th_Lyman358477003.jpg (http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/?action=view&current=Lyman358477003.jpg)
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/th_Lyman358477002-1.jpg (http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/?action=view&current=Lyman358477002-1.jpg)

[MtGun44]

700 is cold, plus how do you think it is at 700? If you think it is because
you set the dial to "7", I have some stock in the Brooklyn Bridge that you need
to buy because I can get it cheap. 7 is higher than 6 and lower than 8. Anything
else is fiction.

Unless you are using a good thermometer, you can't really tell what you metal temp
is. Plus, metal temp is not mold temp.

HOTTER & FASTER. If you are setting to 7 go to 8. Do not spend time admiring
them, dump, close and refill ASAP. Use Bull Plate lube and cut while nearly still
molten. See the Link at the bottom of the page. As they get hot enough they will
start having really nice square, sharp corners everywhere. Until then,

Hotter and faster.

Bill

[burch]

700 is cold, plus how do you think it is at 700? If you think it is because
you set the dial to "7", I have some stock in the Brooklyn Bridge that you need
to buy because I can get it cheap. 7 is higher than 6 and lower than 8. Anything
else is fiction.

Unless you are using a good thermometer, you can't really tell what you metal temp
is. Plus, metal temp is not mold temp.

HOTTER & FASTER. If you are setting to 7 go to 8. Do not spend time admiring
them, dump, close and refill ASAP. Use Bull Plate lube and cut while nearly still
molten. See the Link at the bottom of the page. As they get hot enough they will
start having really nice square, sharp corners everywhere. Until then,

Hotter and faster.

Bill

Well first off mine don`t have a dial on it I cast with a pot and ladle. Second, i`m using a casting thermometer. And third, I was casting at 750 degrees,( read the post ) cutting the sprue faster and getting some crappy bullets. I took the advice of someone that replied to the post and tried that. If I up the melt temp I get frosty bullets with pitting in them and that can`t be good right ?

[JIMinPHX]

The rear cavity seems to be a lot worst in my opinion ( for what that`s worth ). The bases didn`t seem to fill out as well as the front cavity.

Let me guess...you always fill the front cavity first? If that's the case, then may be the front cavity is running a little hotter than the back. Try filing the back cavity first & see if the problem moves.

10 seconds seems a bit long to wait before cutting, but that depends on a lot of things. You want to wait long enough to prevent ripping a crater out of the boolit base, but not a lot longer than that. I usually wait about 2-3 seconds after the sprue hardens, but that varies from mold to mold. On smaller boolit weight molds you need to move faster than you do with the big ones. On aluminum molds, you need to move faster than you do with the iron ones. With lower pot temperatures, you need to move faster than you would with higher temps.

[JIMinPHX]

Also, a little frosty isn't necessarily a bad thing. A lot of people go for that finish intentionally. When you get it, it does mean that you are at or near the upper limit of the temperatures that you want to be working at. If you are getting actual dimples, that is a problem.

[gunplumber]

i had the same problem with the last 3 molds i bought, all lyman, a 4 cavity 200 gr 45 acp boolit, a 4 cavity 250 gr 45 lc and a single cavity 405 gr 45 fn. in all moulds even after some serious cleaning the boolit quality was poor until after at least 100 castings or more then they improved. on both the 4 cavity molds the hole closest to the hinge was the worst and they still throw lots of rejects.

[Doby45]

I always cast the hingle hole as number one and then out from that. Just for the physics of it. The boolit closest to the hinge will cool as the rest are being poured. The last one poured will be furthest from the hinge and will therefore make the ones closer to the hinge cooler and slightly harder to cut. You get more leverage for the harder to cut boolits closer to the hinge, atleast that is my tiny bit of voodo when it comes to casting and getting sprues to cut easier.

[JIMinPHX]

I always cast the hingle hole as number one and then out from that. Just for the physics of it. The boolit closest to the hinge will cool as the rest are being poured. The last one poured will be furthest from the hinge and will therefore make the ones closer to the hinge cooler and slightly harder to cut. You get more leverage for the harder to cut boolits closer to the hinge, atleast that is my tiny bit of voodo when it comes to casting and getting sprues to cut easier.

I do the same when the mold is cold & still coming up to temperature. After I get going, if the front boolits look better than the rear ones, I'll alternate back & forth loading from both ends to try to even out the heat that is being applied to the mold by the lead being poured. If all the boolits look good, then I just keep going like you do. When I am moving quickly on a 2-cav iron mold, I frequently see a difference from alternating my pour order. On the aluminum molds, I don't notice it as much.

[MtGun44]

Frosty is fine. I said if you are using a thermometer, then you do know the metal temp,
but not the mold temp. We have folks that think that the numbers on the pot dial are
accurate temperature numbers.

Pits are likely dirt in the metal, you need to flux it well and possibly clean out the pot.

Also, you may need to add some tin to get the metal to have a lower surface tension which
improves fill out. A piece of 60-40 solder can help a lot.

Bill

[Cadillo]

Just recieved my new Lyman 358477 mold in the mail yesterday and figured i`d fire up the casting furnace and give it a try. Does this mold need a break-in period or am I doin` something wrong. I figured i`d load a couple pics so everyone feel free to pick `em apart `cause I can always use a learnin`

burch :redneck:

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/th_Lyman358477001.jpg (http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/?action=view&current=Lyman358477001.jpg)

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/th_Lyman358477002.jpg (http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/?action=view&current=Lyman358477002.jpg)

I have the same mould. Mine is a four cavity. Yesterday I cast about 1000 bullets with it. It is easily my easiest mould to use to date. Like all my other moulds, initially it took from 200 to 300 bullets cast to settle in. Yesterday it made great bullets from the second fill.

I use wheelweights and tin at a 40/1 ratio. This particular mould performs best with my melt at 600 degrees. My larger caliber moulds prefer 650+. Perhaps because the cavities are smaller than on my .40, .44, .45 moulds, the mould temp is very constant and easy to manage.

I can't tell from your photos what issues you are having, but I suggest a good hose down with brake part cleaner to remove any oil etc. from cavities prior to casting. I do this with good results on all my moulds.

[Cadillo]

I was finally able to blow up the photos. Like others have said, you are tearing the sprue out of the bullet base. Stop pouring when the recess on top of the sprue plate is filled or just short of full. Watch that puddle of melt and when it has begun to dimple inward due to shrinkage, cut your sprue, which should then cut rather than tear.

If you have not yet cast 200-300 bullets, that Lyman is not yet making its best bullets.

[NHlever]

I just received two Lyman, and one Lee mold in the mail yesterday. Right now I'm trying out the Lyman, and Lee (same caliber) and boiling the Lyman .45-200 mold. The Lyman, and Lee molds are both casting fine right out of the box after cleaning them up, etc. Gas checks fit fine on both with the Lyman being a little more snug. The as cast diameter out of the 1-15 alloy I'm using is .301 on the nose, and .312 on the body for the Lee C-309-170-FN, and .3095 - .310 on the body, and .300 on the nose for the Lyman 311672. The nose on the Lyman ramps up to .304+ near the driving bands so that should work OK. Over all, I have no complaints with either. The Lyman is a bit small for a worn, or oversized barrel, but that tapered area should work well in most throats. I bought that mold for my .308's, and a possible 30-06 so the smaller body should work fine. I think the point is a bit small for my 30-30's so that is why I added the Lee mold to my order. I have a SAECO 30 caliber 180 grain mold that should cover both bases, but it casts a gas check shank that is very picky about alloy, or it casts too large to force a gas check on, and the nose area is .302+ so that limits the guns / chambers that I can use it in. I also have the Lee 150 FN, and it shoots very well, but I wanted something a bit heavier, and the 170 is a better looking boolit. :D Well back to the hot pot when I take my 45-200 mold out of the boiling water, and dishwasher soap.