Excessive Force

[Lonesome Stranger]

New here and I’ve gone back in the posts but cannot find an answer to my question. So if this has already been covered please excuse me.

I’ve been casting for years for BP, pistol and other rounds that didn’t require a GC. Now I’ve decided to expand my horizon and try doing the GC thing.

I’m using an old Lyman Model 45 Lube seizer, .309 sizing die, an old Lyman 30 cal. mold for a GC, 210gr. bullet and Hornady gas checks. I’m seating and sizing in one step.

Sizing w/o a gas check requires what I would consider normal amount of force. But doing it with the gas check in place requires a very substantial increase in the amount of force required. Is this normal? I realize that the old model 45 may not have the leverage that the new model 4500’s do.

Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[n.h.schmidt]

Hi
Most of us have been doing this for years,others will chime in. It does take more force to seat, crimp and size a gc boolit.Sometimes considerable more force. Most of that effort is in the crimping on part of the sizeing. You are forceing that lip around the top edge of the GC into the heel as it gets pushed into the die. The Hornady GCs have a thickend lip on the GC. I don't know of any other make of GC that has this. After a while you will get used to this and it will just be normal stuff.
n.h.schmidt

[mold maker]

The toggle that the handle screws into is the weak link. It does take considerable force though to break it.
I broke mine and Lyman replaced it for $17. + change, including an upgrade.

[PatMarlin]

What diameter is your boolit as cast, and how hard is your alloy? Sizing to much, with hard alloy is hard on the Lyman 45, which is the best lube sizer they ever made IMHO.

I only use the Lyman 45's and even size larger calibers and air cooled wheel weights but do not size to much at one time, and also lube boolits with Lanolin and alcohol mix.

Another thing to look for on the sizing die is the mouth edge,. If it's sharp 90dgrs, put a smooth chamfer or radius on it. That will make all the difference in the world.

[Calamity Jake]

There's a couple of things you can do to releave some of the extra pressure required for GC seating/crimping.
Use some kind of light lube on the GC, Hornday oneshot or soppy water for a couple.
Annealing the GCs makes them softer therefore reducing the force needed for crimping.

[Doc Highwall]

I anneal all my gas checks and it helps a lot.

[beagle]

Check and see if by chance, you have one of the old sizer dies with a stepped entrance. They're a real PITA when seating checks. The new ones have a bevel rather than a step and the process goes more easily. Since you're using a #45, I thought I'd ask just for the heck of it./beagle

[Lonesome Stranger]

Thanks guys. The bullets I’m casting are coming out at 12.5 hardness and mike out at .312” and the die has a radius. So maybe I’ll try and anneal the checks first and start looking for a little more modern lube/sizer to use for gas check bullets.

Thanks Again.

[7of7]

What I did was... put my die in the lathe, and put a taper in the mouth of it much more than the radius. (a small forcing cone) The force required dropped considerably. The boolits still get sized appropriately too.
I have two dies of the appropriates size so I wasn't to worried if I messed one up..
I most likely will be doing the same thing with all of my sizing dies, as it does even reduce that force too...

You may also try reducing the check material thickness a couple thou.. it will also reduce the force required.

I have .010 copper, and tried some .004 pop can aluminum.. didn't even feel a difference in the force from a gas check to no check..

[PatMarlin]

Thanks guys. The bullets I’m casting are coming out at 12.5 hardness and mike out at .312” and the die has a radius. So maybe I’ll try and anneal the checks first and start looking for a little more modern lube/sizer to use for gas check bullets.

Thanks Again.

Are you lubing the boolit? Your lyman should handle this. Something's a miss. I've never had to anneal checks from any brand- gator, hornady, mine.

Are you setting the ram pin in the die down about 1/16" or so? If you have it flush, and the boolit isn't dead on center it can hang up on the edge. There needs to be a pocket hole there, enough for alignment,.

[Blammer]

make sure your sizer is oiled and works easy, that will cut down on the "force"

[GabbyM]

some of the old size dies for the 45 didn't hve much taper lead ground into the die bore.
I think 7of7 has your answer. You may want to just buy a new .310" die but probably make more sense to just tough it out. As long as you're not bending the bullets.

[Lonesome Stranger]

The sizer is working fine as long as I’m not applying a GC. The pin starts out slightly down and centers well. I figure that the problem has to be either the die or a bad batch of G C’s from Hornady. I’m going to order a new die and proceed from there.

Luckily the rifle I’m loading for and the load I’m using apparently like the bullet without the gas check as well.

Thanks again gentlemen for all input. It is greatly appreciated.

[Doc Highwall]

Lonesome Stranger, you can anneal the gas checks with a propane torch, just heat them till they glow and let them cool. They will discolor but it will not hurt them and you can drop them into Lemi Shine if you want to make them look nice and pink like freshly annealed brass.

[Lonesome Stranger]

Solved the problem, sort-of. I got a sizer kit from Lee and that seems to do the trick. I’m not sure if it is because of the Lee sizer die, or the great mechanical advantage of my old Rock Chucker press. Either way I’m no longer struggling and worrying about breaking something on my Lyman 45.

Thanks again gentlemen for all the good info.