whats the matter with my boolits(pic)

[troy_mclure]

alloy: lyman #2
flux: hardwood dowel
pot: lee 10lb bottom pour(mr. drippy)
mould: noe 5c .401, 200gr
temp, tried many settings, but no thermometer..


i cleaned my moulds with dawn, hot water, and a bristly brush. dried.

the boolits drop fine at all temps, but most have what looks like pitting on them in various locations.

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab60/troy_mclure_/DSCF0032.jpg

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab60/troy_mclure_/DSCF0035.jpg

[MtGun44]

Dirty metal, looks like oxides. You need to agressively flux and stir to remove impurities. Possibly
adding a touch of tin may lower surface tension enough to correct.

Bill

[geargnasher]

What you have there is VERY dirty alloy. The little inclusions all over it are ash and dross trapped under your melt, probably from the end of your favorite hardwood reducing/fluxing dowel.

This dirt/debris/oxide is also the leading cause of "Mr. Drippy" being so named.

If you will empty your pot, clean it with steel wool or a Brillo pad, wash it out, clean the pintle with sandpaper, and start over, you'll likely not have any more problems.

Those boolits look nice and filled-out, so your mould temp is right on, but you need to clean your alloy. Reducing with a wooden stick is fine, just don't ever touch the bottom of the pot with it if you bottom-pour as it will slough off ash and it will get trapped under the melt where it migrates to the spout and ends up in your boolits. A vigorous stirring/scraping of the bottom of the pot with a long teaspoon does it for me, followed by a stirring/scraping of the top part of the melt with a hardwood scrap to reduce the surface oxide scum. Keeping clean alloy in there and not doing anything to put trash under the melt is the main thing. Empty your pot every few sessions and clean it out, this will keep your boolit quality way up.

I don't know about adding more tin to fix it, I think that some of that crud is oxides with a highpercentage of tin already from insufficient reduction. If it were brought up to the surface and reduced properly with sawdust or working it against the sides of the pot with a wooden stick the tin content of the alloy might increase.

Gear

[Blammer]

use some other type of flux, flux it several times, I suspect the lead is dirty.

did you run the NOE mould through a few heat/cool cycles? That may be part of it too.

[357maximum]

Looks like a classic case of tin poisoning........ too much tin for the lead/antimony in your mix.

using a botom feeder pot makes this situation worse than if you were using a ladle btw.


Cures for tin poisoning:

do not flux the melt until after you have scraped the crud off the top of the melt otherwise you are just putting the excess tin right back in your alloy.

let the alloy sit at temp for 20 minutes and then scrape the junk on top off and put it in your dross can. Do a real good flux with wax/sawdust and let it sit again....repeat till it goes away.

other possible solutions:

add more lead
add more antimony
add more of both


The best solution IMO:
use a ladle

[Wally]

Dirty metal, looks like oxides. You need to agressively flux and stir to remove impurities. Possibly
adding a touch of tin may lower surface tension enough to correct.

Bill

I agree... One should inspect randomly when casting to check for this. I think it has happened to any bullet caster one time or another. Had you done so, you'd have known that slag in the melt were not all removed.... and you would not have continued casting until you stirred and fluxed it all out. Not to beat you up about it---I learned my lesson the hard way.

[troy_mclure]

i just cleaned the pot prior to this session, and i did do the heat cycles recommended by noe.

i just cast a couple hundred .429 boolits from another mould without this issue.

ill get some wax and try fluxing the heck out of the lead.

[geargnasher]

It isn't the mould. You need to at least scrape the bottom of the pot over and over again with a spoon to loosen the crud and get it to float up the sides of the pot where you can remove it. It's in there, I know you don't want to hear it, but it is, and you might have to drain your pot and clean it to get it out.

Something else that can aggravate the tin oxide is having a pot that is too hot, anything over 725 degrees isn't necessary or desireable for most WW metal. At 750 the tin starts drossing out at a very high rate at the surface of the melt.

Gear

[troy_mclure]

i fluxed with lots of wax, made a mess and got lots of powdery dross out. took me about an hour, but now my boolits are all clean and shiny.

on the down side, i took a closer look at the .44 boolits i cast, they have tiny spots as well. i didnt notice them because they are so small, and with steel moulds my boolits tend to be frosty.

would they still be good to shoot? or just resmelt and clean?

[oneokie]

i fluxed with lots of wax, made a mess and got lots of powdery dross out. took me about an hour, but now my boolits are all clean and shiny.

would they still be good to shoot? or just resmelt and clean?

Another suggestion to use sawdust for flux. Dump a handful of sawdust on top of the melt and let it cook down. Then use a flat object (spoon or paint stick) to rub the dross against the sides of the pot. You can skim the resulting dross off and then add more sawdust as an oxygen barrier.

[Ohio Rusty]

It always amazes me how dirt can stay in the lead after it has ben fluxed and stirred over and over. I have found dirt that has been trapped on the bottom of the pot by the weight of the lead. I'll be casting along .... then I'll srape the dross pieces that have shown up on the top and stir again. Suddenly, there is a bunch of dirt on top and an ember is glowing bright orange on top of the lead that was exposed to the air. I wonder how that crud never came to the top thru agressive stirring and fluxing with sawdust.
It just needs coaxed to the top once again.
Ohio Rusty ><>

[excess650]

You can shoot those "dirty" boolits without worry. They look kinda ugly, and are a function of dirty bottom pour pot and/or insufficiently fluxed mixture. I use a ladle exclusively, so almost never see crud in or on my boolits.

[44man]

It always amazed me how much junk seems to be heavier then lead and collects in the bottom.

[Wayne Smith]

Shoot 'em! The target won't know. Won't hurt the gun. Might just be accurate.

[nanuk]

Heh...

You guys are good!

[troy_mclure]

thanks guys!

and wow, that 200gr 5 cavity mould really drains that 10lb pot fast!

[BrassFever]

I bet they shoot fine

[songdog53]

Been there and found was dirty lead.....load em and shoot em....is one way trip and fairly quick one too. I had to clean pot good and was my fault because had neglected cleaning it in long time.