VZ-24 Mauser........

[HiVelocity]

Folks,

I just bought a pristene VZ-24 8mm Mauser and it looks brand new.

Anyone cast or reload for this 8mm Mauser? Handloads you can share?

Anyone here experienced with converting 30-06 to 8X57?

I love the rifle, but it appears that I'll be converting 30-06 over finding once fired
8mm brass.

Pro's? Cons? I appreciate it all.

Thanks,

HV in SC

[tdoor4570]

06 to 8mm is easy , remove decapping rod from die, lube 06 brass and size, this moves the shoulder back, trim to lenght and replace decapping rod size out neck to 8mm be sure and lube the inside of necks. load with a light charge to fireform , necksize and build your load for this rifle. that is my way to make 8mm brass for the 3 8mms that i have. Have Fun

[Ben]

Have you tapped a soft lead slug down the bore to determine the groove dia. of the barrel yet ?

[7s&8s]

"Pristene", Call me sentimental, but keep it that way, splurge for some brass, and an 8mm mold. Suggest the slugging that Ben mentioned and consider the Fat 323471 molds that are up for group buy http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=88897
Along with 16-18 grs of 2400 you can't go wrong.
Best Regards,
Tom

[Dutch4122]

BRP Custom Molds has two excellant designs cataloged. One is the 327-180-GC and the other is the 200 grn 8mm SIL GC. Both are more accurate than I am. Molds are cherrie cut and can be ordered individually. Turn around time is fast. Here's the link:

http://brp.castpics.net/

Also, 13 - 15 grns of Unique with the BRP 8mm SIL is a tackdriver in my 24/47 Yugo.

Hope this helps,

[45 2.1]

BRP Custom Molds has two excellant designs cataloged. One is the 327-180-GC and the other is the 200 grn 8mm SIL GC. Both are more accurate than I am. Molds are cherrie cut and can be ordered individually. Turn around time is fast. Here's the link:

http://brp.castpics.net/

Also, 13 - 15 grns of Unique with the BRP 8mm SIL is a tackdriver in my 24/47 Yugo.

Hope this helps,

Kills 8"x10" rocks well at 385 yards also. The two mold designations are excellent shooters and BRP makes absolutely A No. 1 first class molds.

[gnoahhh]

Why the concern for 1x fired 8x57 brass, and using '06 brass to form 8x57s? There's plenty of new 8mm brass around. At least I never had problems finding any.

[45 2.1]

Why the concern for 1x fired 8x57 brass, and using '06 brass to form 8x57s? There's plenty of new 8mm brass around. At least I never had problems finding any.

Why??????............ The difference in case neck thickness and the ability to trim the formed cases to actual chamber length. Some things you do actually do increase accuracy potential. With the boolit, everything having to do with accuracy happens in the case neck and throat.....if its not right here, everything down the road will suffer. Undersize/length/thickness do not help here.

[Mike Venturino]

Did I miss something? All the trouble of forming '06 brass to 8mm for a rifle with open sights? Just doesn't seem worth the time but that's just my opinion.

Mike Venturino

[45 2.1]

Did I miss something? All the trouble of forming '06 brass to 8mm for a rifle with open sights? Just doesn't seem worth the time but that's just my opinion.

Mike Venturino

Its worth the trouble to me and several people I know. Getting sub MOA groups over the military tangent sights seems worthwhile to me. If your interested in it going bang... then no, its not worth it. BTW, that once fired '06 brass would be military brass, not commercial. I use LC brass for the 8x57 myself.

[BABore]

A perfect example. My VZ-24 has a DWM bbl on it. The groove is 0.323 and change. With factory Remington 8mm brass, the fired case ID will accept a 0.335 dia. boolit and allow just enough clearance for proper release. You usually have approximately 0.001" per side springback from actual chamber diameter with new brass. My 327-180 GC mold drops at 0.327. I just check and lube them as cast. Using the Rem cases, I have just allowed 0.010" of slop or 0.005" per side when the case expands to seal the chamber. Way too much wiggle room for the rear end of a soft cast boolit (compared to jacketed) to get slammed to the side by pressure.

When I reform Remington 30'06 cases to 8mm the resulting case neck is down lower into the 30'06 case, where it is thicker. Reformed cases, trimmed to nominal, will have a fired neck ID of 0.328 to 0.329. A much better fit. If you want a better fit then use military 30'06 cases and you will gain a couple more thousandths. Most of these chambers are also long. Instead of trimming the reformed cases to nominal, measure the actual length and take advantage of it. Leave yourself a little space for case growth or whatever your comfy with. This gets the boolit out there in what is typically a long throat.

When reforming cases, beware of Lee dies. They have a lube vent hole right in the shoulder area. When you shove a 30'06 case in the die to push the shoulder back it scores the snot out of the resulting case neck. A sure place for a crack to develope as the neck gets harder. Rotating the case part way through the reforming op. helps some. Other die brands work better.

[BABore]

Did I miss something? All the trouble of forming '06 brass to 8mm for a rifle with open sights? Just doesn't seem worth the time but that's just my opinion.

Mike Venturino

Mike,

I cheated and put an XS peep on my VZ with the threaded post to accept Williams apertures. I'm not the best in the world with peeps, but can consistently shoot 1 1/4" to 1 3/8", 5-shot 100 yard groups with the above mentioned 327-180 GC in reformed Rem 30'06 cases along with 15.5 grs of Unique and a CCI 200 primer. I have shot sub-inch groups with this load, but it is all on me and the sight picture. Where I mainly shoot, the target board is just inside the tree line. Any shadows play hell on my front sight interpretation.

For general plinking and banging away I will mainly use regular 8mm cases. For serious work or when I want to shoot cast above 2,000 fps I tighten things up with reformed 30'06 cases. As I have a few 30'06 rifles to feed, I always seem to be short of brass to work with. If I was flush with it I would only use reformed cases in the 8mm.

Many of these quality Mil-surps are capable of fine accuracy if you just feed them right. Benchresters pay big bucks to get a min spec chamber and throat so their jacketed bullets have only one place to go to get into the rifling. Cast is way more susceptable to permanent deformation if allowed to do so. Just shooting a thousandths or so over groove, accepting the lousy results, and saying it's normal for a Mil-surp doesn't do alot of these old girls justice.

[Mike Venturino]

Gents: I'm well aware of how well some of these old military rifles will shoot. Many times their barrels are superb. I just can't do it with open sights anymore - if I could ever do it with open sights.

I've got an '03 parts rifle with 3x scope. Its first five shot, 100 yard group with cast was 1 1/2 inches. No special techniques - Lyman 311299, 195 grains of lino, sized .310 inch, lubed with SPG, and crimped in the case over 25 grains of 5744.

My original K98k with ZF41 1.5X scope with Redding/SAECO #081, 190 grains of lino, sized .325 inch, crimped in the case over 27 grains of 5744 put 4 of its first five shots into 1 1/4 inch and I called the fifth to the right. It made a 2 1/4 inch group so I shot a sixth. It made the group 1 1/2 inch if you dropped the flyer. I wasn't satisfied so I shot another five shots. They did go into 1 1/2 inch. (The ZF41 scope is a Numrich reproduction. The original scope is too cloudy to see through.)

So the rifles do more than just make noise. Anyway, that's where I'm coming from, the open sights versus a scope albeit a low power one. Don't get upset about it.
Mike V.

[Lead Fred]

When I had my two VZ-24s I made a some cases from 30-06 cases. Then I found out about the 8mm-06. So I took both long throated x57 chambers and made them fit the 30-06 case. They came out so nice, a guy at a gun show offered me stupid money for them. Which I bought a FN 30-06 Mauser with. It shoots no better than the 8mm-06 did.

[BABore]

Not upset here!

The whole point was not the sights used, but the proper fitting of the boolit and case to the rather generous chambering.

[GrizzLeeBear]

Did I miss something? All the trouble of forming '06 brass to 8mm for a rifle with open sights? Just doesn't seem worth the time but that's just my opinion.

Mike Venturino

What does open sights have to do with forming brass?
EDIT: Sorry Mike, didn't read all of your last post, I see where you're coming from.

I make all my 8mm brass from LC69 GI brass because:
1 - Its easy to do.
2 - I have lots of it, and a source for as many as I want, so I don't have to spend money on new 8x57 brass.
3 - Since its military it has L C 6 9 headstamp, so it doesn't have any 30-06 markings to get it confused by me or anyone else.

I do highly recommend spending $25 for the Redding form and trim die if your going to form a lot of them. It is "chamber" sized rather than "full length size" so it works the brass less for the 1st pass. I get less wrinkles in the shoulders than when using the regular sizer die and its cheaper than the RCBS form and trim die.

[KCSO]

My big problem with converted brass is making it so my idiopt son in law doesn't shoot it in the wrong gun. He isn't bright enough to read the lable on the box and a black case head seems to mean nothing to him either. I have got to the poit that I don't really like converting brass unless there is no other alternative.

As to how good they shoot My M 48 semi sported salvaged from a bubba job will group under 1 1/2" consistantly at 100 yards and actuall shoots some better at 300, keeping all shots under 4" if I am having a good day.

[Jim]

My big problem with converted brass is making it so my idiopt son in law doesn't shoot it in the wrong gun.....

That's a simply solved problem. Control the gun and ammo.

I RARELY let anybody shoot any of my firearms. If and when I do, I maintain VERY strict control over the firearm and the ammo.
Am I being anal? Yeah, you could say that. But, if anything goes south, not only do I stand the chance of losing a firearm, I'll be liable for any damages to property and/or injuries.

[Combat Diver]

You guys are making me want to shoot my M48BO. I've got five more months before that can happen! I've got enough surplus and commerical cases in 7.92 and not enough 30-06. The 06 is reserved for the Springfield and hopefully another Garand.

CD

[Mike Venturino]

Combat Diver: I've just been tossing my once fired military .30-06 brass in a bucket. When you get home, its yours for the asking. Just let me know.

Mike V.