At what price point...

[b2riesel]

At what price point would you consider swagging non lead materials into Boolits? I mean we all see the future in which lead is framed for the murder of the environment and sold down river never to be seen by us common folks...so hopefully that is a very long time off...but at what reasonable price point would you consider an alternative?

Is 15 cents plus jacket low enough? More? Less?

I know there are a ton of points other than price to discuss...like how much work would be involved, accuracy, expansion vs frangible-ness, penetration, what application it will be used for and other points.

The reason I ask is...I can see in the very near future where I just gotta try making some boolits out of the powdered copper waste we have at work...it isn't enough to make a lot..but enough for curiosity to kick in and send me down the road to experimentation...and if I like the boolits...then I may want to make more where I have to purchase the materials.

[bohica2xo]

Price has little to do with it when they ban lead bullets.

A few years back I was telling some bullet companies to start looking at copper solids - a market Barnes had been the king of for a while. Most of them told me I was nuts, people just won't pay for it.

Then California banned lead varmint bullets. Now how many of the big companies make copper solids or "lead free" bullets?

I was watching the phase out of lead wheelweights, and thinking of the impact the steel shot BS had on the gun business. There is just not much else in that density range, and our entire business has grown up around lead. Powder went smokeless, cases went from paper to brass - but lead remains the projectile.

Powdered metal bullet cores in conventional jackets have limited applications. Good on varmints at high velocities. Useless on an Elk. Good on an indoor range - nothing left of the bullet to bounce around after the first impact.

Powdered materials like tungsten will jack up the density, but really jack up the price. With the right tools, copper powder can be pressed into a really solid core. Lots more force than you need for lead, and hard on tooling.

If you think swaging tools are expensive now, just wait until we are forced into swaging copper solids.

I made some bullets with powdered Zinc cores. Lighter obviously, but they shoot ok. Really interesting when you shoot them at rusty steel plate.

Use up your small supply of copper powder, and convince yourself we need to lobby hard to keep lead available.

B.

[ANeat]

I think Zinc will be the obvious choice. When forced into it folks will sort out a way to make better quality zinc castings. A zinc core in a copper jacket will be better than nothing.

But there is still a lot of lead out there

[scrapcan]

zinc is not the answer either, look up the list of things that are labeled as health hazards with zinc. It too is on the chopping block. I am pretty sure zinc moves in animal tissue as freell as lead or maybe more so.

I agree with Bohica2xo, we better get on teh wagon and make the voice heard that lead is not the issue.

[deltaenterprizes]

Zinc would be my next choice. Castable at a little higher temp than lead, plentiful since wheelweights will still be needed. Molds will have to be modified to use a cam to open the sprue plate like LEE 6 cav molds.
I read an article in an old American Rifleman mag that was 40 years old about casting zinc bullets using existing electric pots and molds.
I saw some old commercial bullets made from zinc 20 years ago.
I saw zinc bullets being offered in lead free ammo by commercial ammo manufacturers 11 years ago, that is what pushed me to get out of commercial casting, the zinc would contaminate my lead source.
The zinc bullets I saw had no lube grooves so there will be a new term called "zincing" instead of leading!

[bearcove]

As far as casting go pewter or tin work, but $$$$ and lower density.

[ANeat]

If Zinc wheel weights are everywhere someone will figure out how to use them

[BT Sniper]

Are we talking big game hunting purpose bullets, varmit or plinking?

I don't like to focus to much on the doom and gloom and there can certainly be plenty of it. Heck I'm in NW Oregon, no lead wheel weights from the major tire suplier any more. Bucket of wheel weights from those that do use them is $60-$80, I'll pass! Missed an opportunity for 55 gallons of the wheel weights from a high scool friend by only a couple months.

It would certainly be hard to get rid of all the lead laying around and even harder to enforce not shooting lead for plinking out in the boonies but yes I do salvage all I can get a hold of. Yes a strong voice will be needed as well to keep us free to enjoy this sport/hobby. In the mean time bring on the new ideas for new ways to make bullets :)

This is one thing I enjoy most about this hobby. You make a mistake when making a bullet you just remelt it and start over again with only loss a single piece of brass. Now do yourself one better and recover teh bullets you shoot and reuse them. Best hobby out there I think for reusing/recycling our needs for bullets.

Good shooting

BT

[BT Sniper]

Could you imagine! The ultimate bullet for the hunter that spares no expense, cost is not an issue? Say a $200 bullet? Now there would be a nitch in the market :) I bet gold would swage fairly easy.

OK thats as much hummor I can come up with this morning.

BT

[bohica2xo]

Actually Brian the "enforcement" seems to be working well - you no longer get wheelweights.

Once they force every other industry out of the lead business, the cost of lead for bullets will rise.

The tree hugging, spotted owl fellating enviro-mafia libtards already made a run at us with the EPA last year. Yes, they were shot down - for now. They have successfully removed the lead from Solder & electronic products (raising the cost to manufacture). Banned lead bullets for varmint hunting in CA (with vague & presumptive "research"). Lead shot is long gone in waterfowl areas.

Don't think for a minute that we are not in their sights. I have been around the gun business a long time, and have seen how "progressives" operate. I recall the first time I had to had a customer a 4473 to fill out...

We need to keep the pressure on to exclude bullets from enviro-legislation. Even then, the reduction of lead use in other industries will eventually raise the price of lead.

B.

[waksupi]

Lead will always be around, and I do expect the prices to drop. Lead is more a by-product of silver mining, rather than direct lead mining. They got to do SOMETHING with it!

[Hickory]

Maybe the Lone Ranger has some
advice on non lead boolits.

[DukeInFlorida]

Here are some expensive cases and projectiles:

http://www.bulletforge.com/expensive.php

http://www.bulletforge.com/images/expensive/45ausaphirepave.jpg

[BwBrown]

Here are some expensive cases and projectiles:

http://www.bulletforge.com/expensive.php

http://www.bulletforge.com/images/expensive/45ausaphirepave.jpg


Finally! A projectile that can scratch glass!

Bob

[gunguychuck]

I have some 30 caliber zinc bullets that were sold by a company back in the 60's. They would weigh about 180 grains or more if cast of lead, these weigh 120 grains.

[deltaenterprizes]

What is the name of the manufacturer?

[ReloaderFred]

The old "Metal Piercing" .357 Magnum "Highway Patrol" round used a zinc bullet. I used to have a box of them, but shot them all up years ago.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[deltaenterprizes]

Not true, they used a guilding metal lead cored jacketed bullet, I pulled one recently to measure to make a cherry to cut a mold of the same design.

[ReloaderFred]

Those were the pointed bullets, which were gilding metal, and lead bearing surface. The Zinc bullets are round point and look just like a jacketed bullet, only solid and made of zinc.

Fred

[deltaenterprizes]

I have never seen or heard of them, interesting.