how hard to push pb based 429421

[kweidner]

I finally have everything in order and I am going to try some load development this PM...... from my other post you might need to know the following

Ruger super blackhawk in .44 mag
WW plain and water dropped
429421 PB weighing in at 256 + or - .2
blue angel lube
bullets drop .4334
bullets sized to .4318
chamber throats are .4312 to .4314
barrel lapped and slugged at .4295

I have the following powders on hand

700x
4227
h110
2400
bullseye

where would you start and how hard can I Probably push it before the lead appears?
is there a fps threshhold where wheelweights are just not going to hold up?

[That'll Do]

Well, what do you want to do with the ammo? Hunting? Or paper punching?

I only load for the 44 Special, so I can't comment on magnum loads, but Bullseye and 2400 have worked well for me. You should be able to reach at least 1200 fps easily without leading.

[44man]

Pretty small dimensions for Ruger but that is OK.
Blue angel might be too hard.
Water drop and size about .431" to .432" but to tell the truth, even .430" will work unless you ruin the grease grooves by sizing too much. If rounds chamber it is OK.
2400 and H110 would be my choice but 296 works better in a SBH. 4227 has heat issues if the gun gets hot but is accurate with a cool gun.
Bullseye and 700X have too quick of a pressure rise and the boolit needs to be even harder.

[bhn22]

The classic loading for this bullet for the last 50 years or so has been 22.0 gr of 2400. Several years ago, the powder manufacturer updated the formula, making 2400 a little faster than it was previously. Now the correct top end load for 2400 is 20.0 gr. for about 1200 fps. The starting load is about 18 gr IIRC. There is a lot of loading data for this bullet on the internet.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

[kweidner]

in reality i would like a load for both....however paper punching would be first as hunting season is now over for us

[Thumbcocker]

7.0 of 700x was reccomended a long time ago in an article by Mike Venterino. I used it as a walking around load for years. Did not use quencehd boolits though.

22grns of IMR4227 has been my hunting load for several years and is more accurate than I can hold.

[9.3X62AL]

1100 FPS via Alliant 2400 in both a S&W 624 x 6.5" and a Ruger Redhawk x 5.5" have been leading free for me using 92/6/2 alloy sized to fit throats (.430"-.431" in both revos). I've not tried WW metal for these loads. Proper case lengths (Special or Magnum) were used in each revolver--I dislike removing chamber deposits created by Special cases in Magnum charge holes.

[kweidner]

1100 FPS via Alliant 2400 in both a S&W 624 x 6.5" and a Ruger Redhawk x 5.5" have been leading free for me using 92/6/2 alloy sized to fit throats (.430"-.431" in both revos). I've not tried WW metal for these loads. Proper case lengths (Special or Magnum) were used in each revolver--I dislike removing chamber deposits created by Special cases in Magnum charge holes.

amen on that......i wish i could convince some of my shooting communitynof that one. I help out at the gunshop from time to time and cleaning that junk out can be a pain in the butt.

[kweidner]

7.0 of 700x was reccomended a long time ago in an article by Mike Venterino. I used it as a walking around load for years. Did not use quencehd boolits though.

22grns of IMR4227 has been my hunting load for several years and is more accurate than I can hold.

awesome thanks for the reply

[kweidner]

The classic loading for this bullet for the last 50 years or so has been 22.0 gr of 2400. Several years ago, the powder manufacturer updated the formula, making 2400 a little faster than it was previously. Now the correct top end load for 2400 is 20.0 gr. for about 1200 fps. The starting load is about 18 gr IIRC. There is a lot of loading data for this bullet on the internet.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

thank you

[45r]

You might want to go get some unique,9 grains unique has been the best powder for PB keith boolits I've used in 44mag.

[KYCaster]

I use lots of Blue Angel lube. I find it more or less interchangeable with White Label CR and Bullshop Speed Green in handguns.

I've run the 429421 to 1400+ fps with ACWW, 50 Pb/50 WW and 92-6-2. Leading has not been a problem.

I seem to run out of recoil tollerance before I run out of velocity. :oops:

Jerry

[EMC45]

I use the 429-421 bullet in my SBH 7.5in. I load it over 20gr. Hercules 2400 with standard primer. The bullets are from straight clip on WWs air cooled. They are sized to .430 and lubed with Lyman black moly. 22gr. was interesting, but it will do what I need it to do with 20gr.

[sagamore-one]

I ran a few over the chrono last week. My 6 1/2 in model 29 is getting 1450 fps with 21 of 2400 and a magnum primer. No signs of excess pressure. Lyman # 2 alloy.

[btroj]

I have driven them as hard as I care to in my SRH. I got a overstock group but mould that casts at .435 so it is easy to size to .432. I have a layman 429421 and it only casts at .429 and man does it lead my barrel.

Brad

[MtGun44]

I run it at full speed in several guns, no problems. Accurate.

10 gr Unique for 1050 in 4" Mtn Gun under this boolit has been very accurate for me.

My favorite is 20.0 2400, just a hair below maximum load.

That warthog on the left just had one pass thru his lungs.

Bill

[Bass Ackward]

From this you see that it just depends.

Tell ya what though, if you start low and come up the way you are supposed to for everything, you will get a better picture of whether your gun likes that slug or not. You can watch accuracy open up and contract as you climb the ladder and then just pick what you want.

Teaches you a lot about how your gun likes powders to so that the next slug you want to try, you'll already have a better idea on which powders are "go to" for that gun.

[sagamore-one]

My favorite paper punchin' load for the 429421 is 7.2 to 7.5 of Red Dot for approximately 1000 fps. This load is extremely "clean" burning.

[kweidner]

my gut was this one likes it hot. before i had my mould i tried the J word out. it loves screamin 180 gr xtps and and will drive tacks ( just over.5 inch) my gut was right I started at 6.5 gr of 700 x and went up in half grain increments. when i got to 8 it started acting like the revolver i knew it could be. I ended up getting right at an inch at 25 yds. It had a tiny bit of leading again at the cone but very minimal. i can live with that as it didn't seem to affect accuracy. I am still going to try a bunch of different powders but at least i am starting to see potential with PB.

[felix]

Smith 29-2, 8-3/8, Circa 1974, using 1974-WW with no augmentation, 50 feet, hand rest. ... felix

[Dale53]

I have run over 10,000 rounds of .44 Magnum loads through my S&W Model 29 (8 3/8") and my Ruger Red Hawk with 7½" barrel along with a considerable number run through my Ruger OM Super Black Hawk. I have never loaded these revolvers "down" as I had .44 Specials for that work. My practice load is 23.0 grs of H110 (or 296) behind a Lyman 429421 250 gr Keith bullet or the similar H&G #503. This chronographs at 1200 fps. My hunting load was 23.0 grs of the same powders (the idea of shooting two loads was to make things a bit easier on the revolvers over the long haul). I have taken a number of deer cleanly with these revolvers. Today, I would still recommend those loads for full house loads. However, for target loads I would suggest the same bullets
but using 8.5-9.0 grs of Unique for a more pleasant load.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/DalesPistolsRevolvers5Selects-2-2.jpg

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/DalesPistolsRevolvers5Selects-2.jpg

.44's FOREVER!!

Dale53

[kweidner]

i too have 1 629 custom that will devour anything a put in it and bring down anything a point it at. I am using those J pills in 300 grain. I killed two deer with it this year at 60 yds. I bought this SBH because I like the S&W so much I have relegated it to hunting only and target work...... besides carrying that beast would be like totin my 3 year old in a bandoleer holster. I knew if my history held true like with my 1911 I could not afford Jacketed bullets at the volume I shoot it :razz: Lead shootin in the .44 was the only way to go. Here is my Smith. it was built in Selma Alabama by McCullough Rifle company. I have bought on to the .44 bug and can't seem to get enough. After I fine tune the Ruger, my Smith will have to have a load as well.

[Dale53]

A year or so ago, I had the opportunity to pick up an S&W Model 629 Light Hunter. It will carry just fine in my Bianchi Hush System across the chest holster that I have used for years with my other scoped revolvers. I haven't shot it much as yet but couldn't resist adding a Performance Center Revolver to the mix:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/QDalesRevolversandPistols-1728.jpg

I get absolutely NO leading and playing card accuracy at 100 yards with these scoped revolvers (from a rest). My longest shot with a deer taken was 85 yards (a neck shot taken while leaning against a tree) and another at 75 yards (frontal neck shot standing with no support). Lots of shooting from field positions at ranges up to 200 yards has given me lots of confidence in my revolvers. My limit for sure shots on game is held to under 125 yards. Over that I wouldn't take the shot. Anything under that is DOA. My thing, tho', is not how far I can shoot but how CLOSE I can get. I have shot deer at 10 yards.

I have managed to stalk deer on occasion, to hand shaking distance. You can practice on stalking deer year 'round. You can't shoot them out of season but there is nothing that says you can't stalk them. You would be surprised what you can learn in the off season. One time, I took my wife (who is not a hunter or shooter) and my young daughter with me. I had them do exactly as I do and we managed to get within 15 yards of a herd of deer. They couldn't believe it. Stalking bears more than a little resemblance to shooting. The more you do the better you get.

Dale53

[Char-Gar]

A couple of comments;

With the hardened WW, you will not be happy with anything but top end loads. The ACWW will do fine for lower end and probably do just fine for the top end as well. Of the powders mentioned I only have experience with two, but that experience is extensive. Below are Elmer Keiths which have worked well for me for over 50 years.

5/Bullseye - target, plinking and small game

21/2400 - Full snort load. Elmer used 22 grains, but that has always been over the top in every 44 Mag. I have owned.

[Blammer]

I'd start with 19gr of 2400.

why? because my firearm likes it and it's what I use.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/2008%20Deer/DSCN7394.jpg

I didn't use the 429421 bullet to kill this deer, but I do shoot that bullet with the above powder and charge.

[fecmech]

I shot Silhouette back in the 70's with 429421 and 25grs of 296 for about 1350 fps out of a Ruger SBH 7.5" BBl.

[kweidner]

this is awesome keep it coming...LOVE the eye candy!

[Mavrick]

700x or Bullseye will work just fine with the ACWWs. just load 'em to 850-1000fps and you'll have light recoil and when you get the right load, the accuracy will be all you want.
H110 or 2400 will do the job with WQWW jacked out the top. Start at 'start' and add .2-.3 until you get where you want. There will be two holes in whatever walks, and you'll be able to get the holes pretty close together on paper to 50-75yds, further if you load carefully, and practice a lot.
Have fun,
Gene