Thoughts on this: Chinese vs Russian SKS?

[1shot]

http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/CHINESE-MILITARY-SKS.shtm

Greetings! Here in the great white north I can buy a new/non refurbished Chinese SKS for $189.
I can find good/excellent Russian versions from $200 and up and am wondering which way to go here..
I am sceptical about the previous and rough military life of any fifty year old rifle which attracts me to the above listed.

What do you guys think?
Cheers!

[Sprue]

I prefer the threaded bbl's. And WOW those prices are non existent 'round here. I'd go Ruski myself. I just like the battlefield look. You might consider resale value too.

[bowfin]

The best shooting SKS I ever saw was a Russian model. Shooting offhand, it made a one hole ten shot group at 25 yards...twice.

I was a fool not to try to trade for that rifle.

My choice would be a Russian, but one just never knows...

[mike in co]

The best shooting SKS I ever saw was a Russian model. Shooting offhand, it made a one hole ten shot group at 25 yards...twice.

I was a fool not to try to trade for that rifle.

My choice would be a Russian, but one just never knows...

25 yds with a rifle ???

[mike in co]

i have progressed back thru chinese to russin to a like new russian.

if i have my facts straight the chinese were first made on used russian equiptment, then on rebuilt( bythe chinese) russian equiptment, and then finally on pure chinese equiptment.

they all shoot and do the job thety were designed for...short range combat rifle...

the refurbed russian stocks look ugly....black red lacquer finish.

the machine work on the russians "seem" nicer......

and yes those prices are outstanding...send me a case or two of the chinese...

where are you ??

mike in co

[Gunsmoke4570]

Of all the SKS rifles I own, Russian, Romainian, Yugo, Albanian, and Chinese, the Chinese is at the bottom fit and finish wise. Accuracy is a little better in the European rifles too. YMMV.

[Three44s]

I own two Norinco's .... that said, I'd gladly trade either of them for a good Russian!


Three 44s

[NickSS]

I currently own a Russian SKS but have owned several dozen Chinese ones including two battle field pickups from Viet Nam. Truthfully I really can only say that the Russian stocks have a bit better wood in them as far as shooting they all are about the same averageing something like 3 inch groups at 100 yards and they are all reliable. I would take a new Chinese in an instant at that price.

[unclebill]

Of all the SKS rifles I own, Russian, Romainian, Yugo, Albanian, and Chinese, the Chinese is at the bottom fit and finish wise. Accuracy is a little better in the European rifles too. YMMV.

where would you put the yugo on your list of preference?

[mike in co]

where would you put the yugo on your list of preference?

the yugo is the only one without a chrome lined bore, right ??

here is where i put that rifle....i would only shoot it if it belonged to someone else....so i don't have to clean it.

i would not buy it if i thought i was gonna use it for any kind of battle rifle..


just my 2 cents worth

mike in co

[Gunsmoke4570]

Accuracy and quality of all the European rifles are pretty similar from what I've seen. Actually, the most accurate one of the group is the rather odd looking Albanian. That is with Yugo or S&B surplus which is of much higher quality than the currently available Russian stuff.

[Maven]

A couple of things to mention: First, I had a brand new Chinese Type 56 SKS (pinned bbl.) and was very pleased with the fit and finish on the metal, but not the stock (OK wood, no gaps or gouges). With a properly fitted CB (Mine needed a .314" CB.), accuracy from the entirely "as issued" rifle was consistently less than 2 m.o.a.

As for the Yugoslavian-made SKS's, they were more substantial than the others since their ammo was hotter (don't know why they wanted more pressure though) + they have the adjustable gas port, which makes them more desirable I'd think. Btw, the lack of chromed bores had to do with Yugoslavia's lack of chromium and its prickly relationship under Tito with the other Soviet Socialist Republics, which did. The absence of a chrome-lined bore itself wouldn't dissuade me from purchasing one, but a less than pristine bore most certainly would.

[bowfin]

25 yds with a rifle ???

Yep, 25 yards.

It was a "This is how you load and fire your new SKS" seminar for a coworker.

Actually, it was a "This is how you field strip, clean the cosmoline out of the gas tube and off the piston, load and fire your new SKS" seminar, but I didn't know it was going to be so at the time.

I am hesitant to start shooting an unsighted rifle at distances farther than 25 yards, in order to prevent skipping rounds in front of the target or sending them over the backstop.

[unclebill]

As for the Yugoslavian-made SKS's, they were more substantial than the others since their ammo was hotter (don't know why they wanted more pressure though) + they have the adjustable gas port, which makes them more desirable I'd think. Btw, the lack of chromed bores had to do with Yugoslavia's lack of chromium and its prickly relationship under Tito with the other Soviet Socialist Republics, which did. The absence of a chrome-lined bore itself wouldn't dissuade me from purchasing one, but a less than pristine bore most certainly would.

yep
solid and well built
a few years back i bought two unfired ones for $300
today i would buy 1 of them for that price.
they are well worth it.
i have a norinco as well.
as far as build quality
the norinco is hackwork in comparison.

[Larry Gibson]

Yugo 7.62x39 ammo "hotter"? Maven, could you list your source for that please?

Also the Yugos do not have an "adjustable" gas port. The Yugo SKS has a cut off which simple blocks the gas from entering the gas tube for use with rifle grenade cartridges.

I have used most every make of SKS over the years (since '65) and own a Russian myself. Guess that's my answer.

Larry Gibson

[armed_partisan]

The first SKS I ever bought was a Russian that was selling for ChiCom prices at a pawn shop. They didn't recognize the Tula Arsenal mark, and I did, so I borrowed the money (I was 18) from a friend and bought it for $170 in 1999-2000. I never managed to raise the money to pay my friend back, so my gun became his gun, after a spell. He's still got it. His dad owned a Sino-Chinese SKS that was beautiful that he got nearly new when they were still going for $75-$80.

I later bought a Chicom for $150 (when new ones started going for $300) and it was junk. It worked, but the mag follower was too short and it had a tendency to "jump" the bolt stop and it made reloading after you fired ten rounds impossible. Every part on that Chicom was out of spec and fitted by grinding and filing and drilling new holes. The wood was like particle board or bamboo. The gas tube was out of spec and would rattle around horrendously. I would say it looked like it was assembled in a straw hut, but I've seen guns that were built in straw huts that were much nicer. I eventually sold it for $150, which was a loss, since I had to replace several parts that didn't fit, like that gas tube.

Fortunately, I found an arsenal refinished Tula for $300 when I got back from Iraq that's I love and adore. I think the only other SKS I'd even consider trading it for is the fabled East German ones. There's no comparison of the Russians to the Chinese ones, even the nice, early commercial Chinese ones. If you can compare both side by side, pay close attention to the pins and the metal fittings around the wood, watch for any play in the top cover, gas tube, etc. Check this with the action locked open.

The Soviets never fought a war with the SKS (that I'm aware of) so they ones that are still in their hands are in pretty good shape, and very well built. The comrades who built them had just survived the Great Patriotic War, where they were invaded and badly humiliated by the Germans early on, and they took great pride in manufacturing military rifles at that time. They beat the Germans handily and conquered much of Europe, Sputnik had humiliated the West, they had the bomb, and as soon as the economy recovered from the war, the bread lines would disappear and the good times were gonna last for ever. Russian SKS's were built during a rare moment of unbridled optimism in the Soviet Union, and as a result, they tend to be very good rifles.

[Gee_Wizz01]

I have both, Chinese and Russian. The Russians are very nice and most are acceptably accurate. My Russian is a factory refurb, in mint condition. It is capable of 2" to 3" groups at 100yds. I have one Chinese, that is a nice rifle, it has the standard barrel installion, NOT the pinned barrel. It is every bit as accurate as my Russian, if not slightly more accurate. It has a decent finish and good wood. This rifle is also in mint condition. Both rifles are 100% reliable, all day everyday with any military or commercial ammo. The one caveat about the Chinese, is they were made at several factories and some are pure JUNK! I went through 4 or 5 Chinese SKS's before I found one that was a keeper. You have to look at them carefully for fit and finish. If it looks cr@ppy, it probably is. I had one that the rear sight fell off of on the 3rd shot. One shot 3' to the left with the front sight drifted all the way over. Also stay away from the ones with pinned barrels, as they usually don't shoot as good as the ones with the barrel shoulder that controls head space. The pinned barrels are screwed into the correct head space and then pinned in placed to prevent the barrel from becoming loose. Most of all, the SKS is a fun gun to shoot.
G

[Uncle R.]

I have a Chinese SKS - one of the first to be imported before the assault weapon import ban of George the 1st. Built for use by the Chinese themselves and NOT for sale to the round eyes it's all milled and threaded. It was used hard and looks rough but the bore is good thanks to that chrome. Best of all it is absobloodylutely reliable no matter how dirty or frozen - and it holds an honest 3MOA with decent ammo. That's usable combat accuracy and better than the Ruger mini-30 I once owned. I've heard some bad things about the later Chinese guns but I like my early Chinese SKS just fine. It does what it was designed to do and very well too.

[Multigunner]

The pinned barrels are screwed into the correct head space and then pinned in placed to prevent the barrel from becoming loose. Most of all, the SKS is a fun gun to shoot.
G
Actually the pinned barrels aren't screwed in, they are pressed in. The shank is knurled and the receiver is heated, the barrel pressed in while the receiver is still hot and when cooled it shrink fits. The pins are then driven in for extra hold.
A system more suited to a cheap .22 pistol than a centerfire rifle. They do seem to hold well enough, but rebarreling is a chancy proposition at best. I have heard of these being rebarreled , but its safer to just replace both receiver and barrel.

[1shot]

Thats a lot of info to take in, thanks guys!
Below is a youtube vid of the product I'm considering over the Russian, fyi I can get a used factory refurbished around here (in Canada) for $180/250 which seems to be the going rate.
I did a little research and apparantly the more desirable Chinese SKS are the Military, government made ones- and less desirable, the ones made for commercial export.
This one is the former and the only question in my head now.. Do I want to get a new Military unissued, with its pinned barrel or look for the best Russian and hope it was never abused and fired until smoldering hot etc..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ninq13OR4pA

[armed_partisan]

Get a Russian!

[squirrelnuttz]

Well, finally an item that is substantially cheaper here in Canada than in the U.S. About time!I opted for a Russian 1951 Tula refurb, with a replacement laminated stock.I like it, black bolt and all. I've ordered a few add on parts for it, and I'm looking forward to a lot of fun plinking with it.If you want a truly well hand picked Russian refurb, check out the EE forums on CGN, a fella in Bantario sells them, and seems to have many satisfied customers.

[mckutzy]

If u dont care much for what ur doing with it like out in the bush, get a chinese, there cheap even if u forgot to clean after the corrosive ammo. If u want to have somthing nice looking and are going to take care of it a Russian is ur ticket. a referb russian is kinda the middle but they have the better looking stocks. The chinese use that generic chu wood or what ever its called. there is some guys that have taken a both chinese or referb black bolt and polished a bit and refinished the stock, and do they ever look impressive.

what ever u do.. stock up on the czech steel core ammo, them crates wont last forever.

[1shot]

Well, on advise received here and on further research.. this is what I have ordered!

http://shop.moregunssupply.com/Simonov-SKS-1945-Semi-Auto-Rifle-762x39mm_p_63.html
I called and spoke with the owner who assures me he'll ship an un-issued and unfired Russian. Woo hoo!! Now gun feeling etc.
I'll purchase a few hunderd rounds of Surplus, however my range frowns upon steel cored ammunition- besides I look forward to casting for it. :)

[armed_partisan]

You can get a SVT38/40 for only $300?!!! Oh my GOD! I've never seen one for less than $800!

[badbob454]

forget the chinese buy a yugo built stronger and far more accurate i have owned several chinese paratrooper and regular type sks' and the yugo outshot them by a 11/2 '' group at 50 yards compared to 6'' group at the same the yugo shoots as accurate as my garand and my m14 at 50 yards....unscoped and open sights if i had scoped this probably would shoot one ragged hole

[JIMinPHX]

I've only had my hands on 3 versions, A Russian, a Chinese & a Yugo. The Russian had the best fits & finishes throughout. For $10 extra, I'd go with the Russian unless there is a specific feature on another gun that you want. The Russian & the Chinese both had chrome bores, which I consider a substantial plus. The wood on the Chinese was really rough. The Russian & Chinese are both a little heavy compared to some other semi-auto guns in that caliber, but they're pretty well balanced. The Yugo is heavier & as a friend recently pointed out to me, much more nose heavy. The Yugo has a gas shut off gizmo that is part of the grenade launcher system. This allows you to shut off the gas to the bolt & lets you run the gun as a straight pull bolt gun instead of a semi auto. This can be handy if you don't want to chase your brass all over the place. Any of those guns are worth $200 in my opinion. With all the cheap ammo that is available for them, I think that they are a great bargain. You can find some good information on You Tube regarding trigger improvement & firing pin upgrades for safety.

[zomby woof]

I have owned several models of the SKS. I never got around to shooting the Russian. I'm going from memory here, I thought I read once that the Russian SKS with a "1" stamped on the front sight was supposed to mean an accurate shooter.

That being said, I had a Chinese and Albanian that were good shooters. Nothing under 2 MOA but consistent.

I would go with the Russian.

Found it:
The accuracy of an SKS was checked by firing 3 rounds at a target and if it obtained sniper quality it was marked on the front of the front sight base with the number 1, with #2 and #3 as accuracy decreased.

[JIMinPHX]

The accuracy of an SKS was checked by firing 3 rounds at a target and if it obtained sniper quality it was marked on the front of the front sight base with the number 1, with #2 and #3 as accuracy decreased.

Thank you for posting that. That is a very interesting detail that I was completely unaware of.

[Rio Grande]

A good Chinese is equal or better than a poorly refurbed Russian.
A nice Russian SKS (even refurbed) is the best. That is, shiny bolt, matching, good bore.

[corvette8n]

I had a Chinese paratroper model shorter bbl, evey time I pulled the trigger something fell off, I sold it and bought a nice 1953 dated Russian from a fellow cruffer.

[badbob454]

Yugo 7.62x39 ammo "hotter"? Maven, could you list your source for that please?

Also the Yugos do not have an "adjustable" gas port. The Yugo SKS has a cut off which simple blocks the gas from entering the gas tube for use with rifle grenade cartridges.

I have used most every make of SKS over the years (since '65) and own a Russian myself. Guess that's my answer.

Larry Gibson

hey larry i found this on searching yugo's i knew i saw it some where

Yugoslavia: The SKS M 59 and 66A1 was manufactured by the Zastava Ordnance/Red Banner Works
between 1967 and 1970. The M 59 and M 59/66 were clones of the Type 45. Most had beechwood stocks, but
those exported to Africa had teakwood stocks. Nevertheless, there were significant differences between the
Yugoslav products and those made in the Soviet Union. To wit, the former didn’t have chrome-lined barrels as
there was no chromium in Yugoslavia and it was difficult to obtain from Russia given the political differences
between the two nations. The M 59’s and 66’s also had stronger, heavier actions since Yugoslavian M 43
ammunition was loaded to a higher pressure than its Soviet counterpart. In addition, the A1 was fitted with
tritium sights, both front and rear. Lastly, Yugoslavian made rifles have a gas cut-off valve at the front of the
gas tube, whereas other SKS variants do not.

my source
http://hgmould.gunloads.com/casting/skscast.htm

[Larry Gibson]

badbobgerman

Yup a Yugo in good condition is a fine SKS but there's lots of worn out ones with sewer pipe barrels out there. They are heavier and thus "stouter" than the Russian or Chinese SKSs but is all that needed/wanted for the 7.62x39 cartridge in a carbine type rifle?

Back to the OPs question; If a "blaster" with milsurp ammo is all that you want then a good Chinese sks will serve well. However, if you want to tweak, bed and make it into a very nice shooting light weight carbine with quality jacketed or cast bullet loads then the Russian SKS most often serves better. If you find a Yugo with an excellent barrel and don't mind the weight or are going to strip off the non essential garb then it will serve nicely also. I've seen a few really nicely made Chinese sks but they are far and few between.

Larry Gibson

[ilcop22]

Only owning a Chinese and a Yugo SKS, I would generally pick something other than the Chinese version. It's not as robust as the Yugo and the barrel is a bit cheaper on the Chinese. Also, you have to muddle with those ridiculous Clinton import laws with the Chinese SKS, and for those who want an original configuration, that may be a problem.

[badbob454]

badbobgerman

Yup a Yugo in good condition is a fine SKS but there's lots of worn out ones with sewer pipe barrels out there. They are heavier and thus "stouter" than the Russian or Chinese SKSs but is all that needed/wanted for the 7.62x39 cartridge in a carbine type rifle?

Back to the OPs question; If a "blaster" with milsurp ammo is all that you want then a good Chinese sks will serve well. However, if you want to tweak, bed and make it into a very nice shooting light weight carbine with quality jacketed or cast bullet loads then the Russian SKS most often serves better. If you find a Yugo with an excellent barrel and don't mind the weight or are going to strip off the non essential garb then it will serve nicely also. I've seen a few really nicely made Chinese sks but they are far and few between.

Larry Gibson

larry i had a chinese paratrooper blast was all it was good for shot 12'' groups at 50 yards couldnt reliably hit a hubcap at that distance , my yugo will hit that same hubcap at 200 yards easily i will say it is quite heavy, but i like accuracy in my guns also with the cutoff i can feed single shot i wouldnt want to modify anything .. so if a light rifle is what you want maybe the m59 yugo . i wish it had a chrome lined barrel ,, but for reloading it wouldnt be necessary ... im sure some chinese guns are all that . but i dont want to take the chance of a bad shooter, again ... one thing about this site is everyone ; can have his own opinion . and i respect yours.. also
bob german

[Larry Gibson]

bob

Notice I said I had a Russian SKS, not a chinese one...............

I've seen several chinese shoot as bad as the one you mention. Also seen numerous Yugo's with worn and pitted barrel that shot as bad or worse. Also a lot of failure to function with the worn Yugo's. Company I contracted with to provide live fire training and scenario training has 300+ of them. A number of them would not function with quality ammo due to worn pitted bores. Some of them even failed to function with blanks with plugged muzzles. Like any milsurp a lot depends on the condition. Have to say I've not seen a "bad" Russian SKS..........

BTW; some of those Yugo's the company has are really fine shooters and I respect your opinion of them, just heavy is all with all the hardware is my opinion.

Larry Gibson

[badbob454]

Larry cant say i blame you , i have never shot a russian sks , so you may be right , it may be a better rifle , guess i just favor the yugo , i dont mind the weight im 6'2'' 245 lbs so weight, and recoil, dont bother me at all ,,, if you have never seen a bad russian , you would be right on reccomending that rifle i enjoy reading your comments and hope to read more , you seem an educated man which lends to good reading thanks bob german

[gew98]

What's all this " paratrooper talk". Those cut down SKS's rifles were a gimmick for resale. Tey were cheesy on all points. The 1960's era chinese military SKS rifles have always been good rifles for me. I have had a handfull of vietnam bringback Chinese SKS's and short of one that had a slightly bent barrel and bullet holed gas tube/handguard all shot flawlessly and very accurately with 60's & 70's date steel cored chinese surplus. I've had two russian SKS's. One a 54 date refurb to as new...and a near new laminate stocked '51. Both were matching ( excepting the 51 had a mismatch chinese mag box ), complete rifles and the 51 was a papered vietnam bringback. It shot better than the refurb by far.
If one gets some of that steel cored chinese surplus in 550 round tins on SKS chargers you'll likely find as I did 20 years ago it was some great shooting cheap surplus . I have not had anywhere near the accuracy or quality with russian surplus and especailly the current crop of russian import 7,62x39 these days.
As for the Yugo SKS..seen more worn out examles than nice condition , and the gas cutoff has caused more problems on the well used examples.

[220swiftfn]

What's all this " paratrooper talk". Those cut down SKS's rifles were a gimmick for resale. Tey were cheesy on all points. The 1960's era chinese military SKS rifles have always been good rifles for me. I have had a handfull of vietnam bringback Chinese SKS's and short of one that had a slightly bent barrel and bullet holed gas tube/handguard all shot flawlessly and very accurately with 60's & 70's date steel cored chinese surplus. I've had two russian SKS's. One a 54 date refurb to as new...and a near new laminate stocked '51. Both were matching ( excepting the 51 had a mismatch chinese mag box ), complete rifles and the 51 was a papered vietnam bringback. It shot better than the refurb by far.
If one gets some of that steel cored chinese surplus in 550 round tins on SKS chargers you'll likely find as I did 20 years ago it was some great shooting cheap surplus . I have not had anywhere near the accuracy or quality with russian surplus and especailly the current crop of russian import 7,62x39 these days.
As for the Yugo SKS..seen more worn out examles than nice condition , and the gas cutoff has caused more problems on the well used examples.


Gimmick, yes, cheesy? Not so much for mine (might be I got really lucky) milled screwed bbl "Paratrooper" full wood stock, put a Tech Sights rear on it and it is pretty consistantly around 3" or less at 100yds with Yugo M67. I'd suggest trying the Wolf "military classic" 124gr. HP, they usually group better than the black box Wolf.


Dan

[Larry Gibson]

badbobgerma

i dont mind the weight im 6'2'' 245 lbs so weight, and recoil, dont bother me at all

Sure can't disagree with that:drinks:

Larry Gibson

[muzzleblastm38]

at www.marstar.ca a sale a sks for 75$.purchase one more for the gun rack,
(just a good deal not to let pass)[smilie=l:

[JIMinPHX]

Chinese & Yugo SKS rifles in average condition at the last gun show here in Phoenix were priced around $250-350. A Russian refurb is higher up on the food chain than either of those two. The The laminated stocks on the refurbs are much more durable than the originals, that were made from Arctic Birch. In addition to the laminated wood being stronger to begin with, they generally also have a second support bolt in them to prevent the stock from splitting at the wrist. The rifle that you got is one of the most durable variants of an already durable type of rifle.

[Larry Gibson]

badbobgerman

The M 59’s and 66’s also had stronger, heavier actions since Yugoslavian M 43
ammunition was loaded to a higher pressure than its Soviet counterpart.

Well that one website says that but gives no reference or specifications. That's the first I've heard of it but without some sort of specs on the actual Yugo ammo that is higher pressure one has to question that. Considering how fast and furious the Yugos fling standard milsurp ammo cases on firing (pretty much the same as Russian and Chineses SKS) I can't see how they are made to withstand "higher Pressure loads". Also all the bulk is external and with added gadgets. The firing mechanisms specs are the same as with Russian and Chinese SKS's. Perhaps someone can come up with documented specs on this "higher pressure" Yugo 7.62x39 ammo?

Larry Gibson

[JIMinPHX]

A friend of mine has a Yugo. It does need a little more powder to get it to function compared to a Chinese or Russian version. He also has some Yugo ammo. I'll have to see if I can chrony some of it the next time we go shooting together.

On a separate note, the following website has an amazing amount of info on the SKS - http://www.yooperj.com/

[jimb16]

Not my first by any means, but today I own a Russian.

[superior]

This little puppy is a tack driver!http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_70874e8a674a1fe50.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2351)

[seagiant]

Hi,
I shot a Chi-com sks and it was literally a tack driver out of the box. A year or so later sold it to a friend of mine as I had seen a real Russian (I mean it's got to be better right?) Well it looked a little better but would not hit the side of a barn! Really screwed up on that one! My freind still has the chi com and its not for sale!

[bcp477]

I've owned 1 Chinese, 1 Soviet (Russian) and 1 Yugo. The best of the lot, in my opinion, was the Yugo - best built, best function, etc. The Russian was a close second. The worst, by far, was the Chinese. Absolutely the WORST trigger I've ever experienced - rifle or handgun. Machine marks everywhere, sticky function, poor feeding from the magazine, etc. etc.

Granted - one example does NOT make for a definitive. Nevertheless, I'd have to say that I'd strongly recommend against the Chinese SKS.