Ruger 44 Mag SBH Lyman 215gr Hunting load question???

[Terryrm1-03]

Just got a 215gr Lyman mold from a gentleman here on this forum. Its a gas checked round. Any good loads that you have to help me start out? I'm not looking for maximun engine block blasting loads, just want a nice and accurate shooting load for deer hunting. Thanks for your help, and loads!
TerryR

[Bass Ackward]

You will find that bullet to be about 225 grains outta WW. Weight has less impact with lead than it does copper so you can use load data for anything 240 / 250 grains and simply add another .5 to 1 1/2 grains depending on the powder speed. Just use those loads as a baseline to begin.

If you use the search function, you will be inundated with choices across the entire velocity spectrum so that you find what works for you. I use 10.5 grains of Unique for mid-range and 24.5 grains H-110 if I don't want flies deviating it off course.

[Shuz]

Bass is correct, that mould casts (nominal) 225g boolits outta wheel weights. At least all I've had do!
As a rule, I do not use gas checks for my .44 mags. I believe they are not necessary and we all know they are getting expensive. However, occassionally, I'll have an alloy/hardness/powder/boolit combo that may give minor leading in one of my guns. I use a 429215 sized .431 and gas checked with 18g of 2400 to "get the lead out". This load is also very accurate and easy on the shooter. Velocity is around 1100 fps +- depending on bbl length.

[Larry Gibson]

Concur with Bass & Shuz; I use 23.5 gr 2400 with that bullet for 1425 fps out of my 6" Ruger BHFT. Loaded higher safely but lost accuracy. 22 gr is a nice comfortable "magnum" level load also and quite accurate.

Larry Gibson

[44man]

The .44 is kind of a borderline caliber for penetration. A light boolit is not best for hunting because they can stop. 250 to 320 gr boolits and the velocity ranges for them are better. I lean towards 300 gr and more.
The SBH does not come around for accuracy until at least 240 gr. Lighter boolits need to be shot SLOWER and heavier needs to be pushed more. 240 gr is the base line.
You ignore the twist rate and what it needs. Light boolits are better shot slow for can shooting. Jack them over 1500 fps and you need luck to hit anything.
I opt for a heavy boolit of around 1350 fps for deer.

[2 dogs]

My SBH 7.5" is very accurate and just excellent with 23.0 grains of 2400 on the GC 429215. Hard hitting and very accurate. Velocity is upwards to 1500 fps. I realize you were not asking for top end loads, so I will also mention that I use this same bullet in my 44 special Freedom Arms 97 at 1200 fps with just excellent accuracy and plenty flat trajectory. There aint a whitetail alive that could take either one of the these loads thru the ribs!!!

Youre going to enjoy that bullet and mold. Its one of my favorites!!! If you find yourself interested in a cramer style 429215 GC mold, we are working on one in the group buy discussion area.

Note that my experiences are different from the poster above. Each and every sixgun is a rule unto itself!!!!

[Lloyd Smale]

ive shot a couple deer and pig with that bullet using 20 grains of 2400 and 10 grains of unique in mag brass and ate venison the next day.

[Larry Gibson]

"The .44 is kind of a borderline caliber for penetration."

Didn't know I lived on the border....:bigsmyl2:

I've shot numerous BT and mulies with 240 - 250 gr cast out of .44s from 1000 fps to 1450 fps and never had one not penetrate through and through, even the softer HP versions. I've not taken any Texas heart shots though. Shot a nice mulie head on in the brisket with a .44 Special using the 429421 loaded to 1050 fps. The bullet took out the heart and passed through the rest exiting out through the rear ham. Never found a need for more "penetration" than that. Never found a need for 300+ gr bullets either. But then silly me has found 210 gr bullets in a 41 to be quite adequate for elk, let alone a 240 - 250 gr bullet out of a .44 for deer. Just my observations.......and I've not qualms with those who want to use heavier in ther .41/.44s, I just never found the need is all.

Larry Gibson

[44man]

"The .44 is kind of a borderline caliber for penetration."

Didn't know I lived on the border....:bigsmyl2:

I've shot numerous BT and mulies with 240 - 250 gr cast out of .44s from 1000 fps to 1450 fps and never had one not penetrate through and through, even the softer HP versions. I've not taken any Texas heart shots though. Shot a nice mulie head on in the brisket with a .44 Special using the 429421 loaded to 1050 fps. The bullet took out the heart and passed through the rest exiting out through the rear ham. Never found a need for more "penetration" than that. Never found a need for 300+ gr bullets either. But then silly me has found 210 gr bullets in a 41 to be quite adequate for elk, let alone a 240 - 250 gr bullet out of a .44 for deer. Just my observations.......and I've not qualms with those who want to use heavier in ther .41/.44s, I just never found the need is all.

Larry Gibson
Larry, go back and read what I said. I said 240 and up, not 180, 200 or 215 gr. High velocity with light and fast expanding bullets are bad as are light cast that can't get through.
I don't know why they make boolits lighter then 240 gr.

[Bass Ackward]

The .44 is kind of a borderline caliber for penetration. A light boolit is not best for hunting because they can stop.

I opt for a heavy boolit of around 1350 fps for deer.


I have never had a lead bullet stop in a deer if it is 8 BHN (20-1) or more. Not even close judging by exit holes. I have had pure lead core jacketed stop in 44 caliber.

And those are some sizable numbers (4 digits) using pretty much every conceivable angle.

In fact, I have shot two once using 250 Keiths outta ACWW and the bullet is still going somewhere. First was quartering away and the doe bounded in line at the shot. Broke her off shoulder on the exit.

Decades ago, I used a 357 with the 358156. Working range limited you to around 60 yards or so, but they kept going as well.

Funny how people have different experiences. That's why I do a lot of testing too. Nothing there has EVER given me an idea that a 44 with even a 200 grainer wouldn't work for deer if the antimony content was held down. Even the high content stuff fractured very seldom for me.

[GabbyM]

I've been shooting 20 grains of AA#9 under the #429215 this last winter. Seamed about the right amount of power for a load one plans to shoot a lot. I’m not one of those recoil immune types. Have tennis elbow and have had a couple fracture and tear injuries to my hand and wrist. It all adds up after a while. I shot several dozen in one sitting and experienced no pain. Accurate Arms flier list 21.7 grains for a 240 LSWC. New Lyman 4th list a load for RCBS 225gr max of 20.7 but they don’t list AA#9 under there own 429215. Brass wasn’t getting hurt any from pressure and primers were just starting to form a flat. The bore was left pristine. Used a slightly modified Felix lube. First time I ever saw the corner where the lands met the groves sharp. That poor revolver had been forced to digest a bunch of store bought 240gr LSWC with hard lube. Thought I’d cleaned out all the lead but the 429215 finished the job and the Felix lube left the bore shined with carnauba wax. Was impressive.

Don’t have any extensive load testing for accuracy comparison or chronograph results. Imagine good old 2400 would do the same thing. Books say the 2400 will come up abuot 50 fps short in velocity to AAA#9. I’ve about a quarter lb of 2400 left and a hundred or so loaded rounds with AA#9. I’ll just have to give them a head to head test.

When casting #429215 that thin front band is a pest. I can get beautiful bullets when using straight 2/6 alloy with bottom poor. But as soon as I soften the alloy it takes a ladle with pressure poor technique to fill the bands out nice. With a Lee pot you can push the spru plate up against it’s spout for a pressure poor. I just hard cast them with 2/6 alloy.

[Blammer]

Here is a target I shot at 50 yds.

I dropped my test load and they were all jumbled up so I didn't know what was what. I decided to shoot them all into the same target.

I would have NO problems hunting a deer with this load or any of these charges for that matter.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Targets/File0088.jpg

[Mavrick]

Blammer-It's real hard to test loads when they go in the same hole!! lol
What I do is write on the case a code number, ie 1,2,3, etc with Marks Alot. I doesn't hurt the die when I reload it, or if I dump 'em in the polisher, it'll take enough of the ink off that I can't read it.
FWIW
Have fun,
Gene

[44man]

Here is a target I shot at 50 yds.

I dropped my test load and they were all jumbled up so I didn't know what was what. I decided to shoot them all into the same target.

I would have NO problems hunting a deer with this load or any of these charges for that matter.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Targets/File0088.jpg
Too many fliers there my friend. Increase the boolit weight to say, the RD 265 gr boolit and you will have 3/4" groups at 50 yards and 1-1/4" at 100. Been shooting the .44 since 1956 and never found a light boolit that shoots as good as at least 240 gr. Some .44's would do 1/2" at 50 all day with a 240 gr XTP and I was shooting beer cans at 200 yards with them. I tried lighter like the 180 XTP or all the rest and could never match groups.
Cast presents more problems to be solved but will shoot right with jacketed or better. You just can't ignore twist rate and velocity. To make a light boolit shoot 1400 to 1500 fps just for speed alone is always a mistake. Even shooting a 240 gr boolit that fast is a mistake. Most any boolit weight can be made accurate but as you reduce loads for light boolits, you need faster powders and that can ruin the wrong boolit.
Yes, I am a stick in the mud! :p Let me give an example. I needed to sight my .475 in with my WFN boolit again. I shoot only 50 yards and more with my hunting revolvers. I just shot 3 so I could make an Ultra Dot adjustment. Moved 4 clicks left and shot 2 more. First 3 were in 7/16" and the next 2 were in almost one hole. Sure, not enough shots for some but be assured the gun will do this all day when I do what is needed.
Large 50 yard groups reduce the range you can hunt and 100 yards is taking a chance. I don't shoot deer much over 100 yards but what I load will do fine to 200 yards or more with drop figuring.
I refuse to use a boolit just because it is fast, it must always be accurate first.

[Blammer]

Too many fliers there my friend.

flyer's you say, hmm that is probably me, not the gun or load. If I were to post groups like you shoot, i'd have to employ my ransom rest. I'm sorry to say, that most of us cannot shoot as accurately as you, myself included.

For the hunting I do around my neck o the woods (and yes it's woods) 100yds is a long long shot around here, that accuracy will put meat on the table everytime.

personally I've found that 2" at 50 yds is pleanty good for deer, and even 4" at 100yds will still put them down.

[45 2.1]

Yes, I am a stick in the mud! :p Let me give an example. I needed to sight my .475 in with my WFN boolit again. I shoot only 50 yards and more with my hunting revolvers. I just shot 3 so I could make an Ultra Dot adjustment. Moved 4 clicks left and shot 2 more. First 3 were in 7/16" and the next 2 were in almost one hole. Sure, not enough shots for some but be assured the gun will do this all day when I do what is needed.
Large 50 yard groups reduce the range you can hunt and 100 yards is taking a chance. I don't shoot deer much over 100 yards but what I load will do fine to 200 yards or more with drop figuring.
I refuse to use a boolit just because it is fast, it must always be accurate first.

Shooting at 50 yds with optical sights doesn't prove much. Take that sucker out to 400 yds or so and show us what you can do. BABore and I already did that with several board members as witnesses with soft 204 gr. cast HP 44 Mag loads at 385 yards. That was against everything you been talking about and its quite accurate. Lets see what you can do.......................

[Larry Gibson]

Larry, go back and read what I said. I said 240 and up, not 180, 200 or 215 gr. High velocity with light and fast expanding bullets are bad as are light cast that can't get through.
I don't know why they make boolits lighter then 240 gr.

I understand that, which is why I said "240-250 gr cast" as I wasn't refering to the lighter bullets either. I mostly use the RCBS 44-250-K or the 429244 fo my magnum level .44 loads these days. However, it's gonna take a very, very large deer or a Texas heart shot to keep a hard cast 225 gr bullet inside a deer when pushed at 1400+ fps from a .44 at reasonable ranges. That's from my limited experience with them anyways as I mostly shoot slightly heavier weight bullets. Is that extra 15 grains between the 225 and the 240 gr cast bullet going to make that much penetration difference?

There's lot's of places in thi country where the deer, even a large buck, aren't really all that big. Perhaps since TerryR isn't looking for "maximun engine block blasting loads" he has a decent idea of his needs. I've o doubt that your hunting needs are probably more than his. That's ok with me.

Larry Gibson

[44man]

Shooting at 50 yds with optical sights doesn't prove much. Take that sucker out to 400 yds or so and show us what you can do. BABore and I already did that with several board members as witnesses with soft 204 gr. cast HP 44 Mag loads at 385 yards. That was against everything you been talking about and its quite accurate. Lets see what you can do.......................
I don't have pictures but kept four out of five shots with this gun on a six inch swinger at 400 yards from Creedmore. I missed the first shot because the red dot needed to be on top of the 500 meter berm. My spotter also hit it 3 out of five shots.
And remember, it is not an optical sight per say, it is 1X with a large dot. Covers 4" at 100 yards.
I have clanged a steel ram at 500 meters, every shot with the BFR 45-70 by aiming at a tree branch about 26' over the ram. My best was 4 shots in 2-1/2" at 500 yards.
I am no beginner to long range and was shooting 200 yards with my .44 back in 1956 using a 429421, busting rocks on a RR bank with open sights, off hand. (No more with my age.)
I have shot too many pop cans at 200 yards with a .44.
Now a scope set for the range was different and I kept 12 shots straight in a five gallon bucket at 500 meters (547 yards) with my SRH.
I will be the very last guy to say a revolver can't shoot far with accuracy. I still question you as to how small your light boolit groups were. I can't show you and you can't show me.
Please show your 50 yards groups at least.
I do all I can to help everyone shoot better and I won't tell them anything that will give problems. One single problem is too much.
The worst I do is to agree with some things to keep the peace even though I know it is wrong, just a little wrong and if it is far off I will say so.
But tell me, how about open sights with a single shot pistol?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the circled group was 5 shots at 100 yards, 3/8".
Notice the 200 yard groups. Why do you think I am pulling everyone's leg? These were shot Creedmore, no bags. Just how far do you think I can shoot these guns? 500 meters is duck soup.

[44man]

I understand that, which is why I said "240-250 gr cast" as I wasn't refering to the lighter bullets either. I mostly use the RCBS 44-250-K or the 429244 fo my magnum level .44 loads these days. However, it's gonna take a very, very large deer or a Texas heart shot to keep a hard cast 225 gr bullet inside a deer when pushed at 1400+ fps from a .44 at reasonable ranges. That's from my limited experience with them anyways as I mostly shoot slightly heavier weight bullets. Is that extra 15 grains between the 225 and the 240 gr cast bullet going to make that much penetration difference?

There's lot's of places in thi country where the deer, even a large buck, aren't really all that big. Perhaps since TerryR isn't looking for "maximun engine block blasting loads" he has a decent idea of his needs. I've o doubt that your hunting needs are probably more than his. That's ok with me.

Larry Gibson
Yes, mostly I can agree but last season my friend called me every few days about his .44. He recovered 3 boolits from deer. All 320 gr LBT WLNGC's. Bone was hit and the noses were scrubbed a little to turn the boolit.
I recovered all three 240 gr XTP's I shot deer with so I quit using them. No blood trails at all.
I now use my 330 gr boolit, a copy of the WLNGC and nothing will stop it. It is at the right velocity and is hard enough so it does not deform.
Give me a box of light boolits and they work nice for cans, but when I hunt, I use what works 100 % of the time.
What you don't see is that too slow and too fast will not be good.
Maybe tons of deer meat is not enough to convince anyone because they have a good result once or twice. I can do that with a .22.

[45 2.1]

I am no beginner to long range and was shooting 200 yards with my .44 back in 1956 using a 429421, busting rocks on a RR bank with open sights, off hand. (No more with my age.)
I have shot too many pop cans at 200 yards with a .44.
Now a scope set for the range was different and I kept 12 shots straight in a five gallon bucket at 500 meters (547 yards) with my SRH.
I will be the very last guy to say a revolver can't shoot far with accuracy. Your not doing anything that hasn't been done by someone else at some point in time. I still question you as to how small your light boolit groups were. The guys said about the size of a softball (ask them), later measured by me at under 4" with a SBHunter with 1.5 power scope on it (at 385 yds). That scope wasn't any big improvement over irons BTW. You just have to have something to aim at that you can see. I can't show you and you can't show me. Nope your right. I spent my early days hunting groundhogs with a Gold Cup. 200 yard groundhogs anyone?
Please show your 50 yards groups at least. No digital camera...
But tell me, how about open sights with a single shot pistol?
Many groups well under the one you show. A 10" 45ACP TC barrel that loves to print them in one slightly bigger than caliber hole at 50.... another Super 14 in 41 Mag that does the same at 100..... a particulary accurate 624 that I took to SD to hunt prarie dogs, several revolvers that do the same as yours at 60. The only difference is I do it with soft, by your standards, alloy. I'm not argueing that your hard boolit heavy loads don't work, they do, but they aren't usefull in 14 KSI revolvers. A lot of things can do the same thing.
Just how far do you think I can shoot these guns? 500 meters is duck soup. Try longer.......many folks do the same thing with irons.

[44man]

No, I can't do it with slumped, deformed, skidded and ruined soft boolits. I don't have a genie to wish good things for me.