45-70 Encore Barrel

[DaveD]

Just wondering if anyone has one and what your loading. Will the encore action handle hotter loads than the 1895 Marlin or at least as hot?
Can longer, heavier bullets be used, is there enough lead or is throating needed?

[aaalaska]

Not sure just what level loads the Encore will handle,but I don't care for the recoil when shooting loads that run toward the hot end for the Marlins,The loads I shoot through the GG, are unpleasant thru my Encore with the 24 in barrel.synthetic stock, limb saver recoil pad.I've handed this off to a few of my friends and got the same feedback.
Alex

[crawfobj]

I have an 18" Katahdin barrel that I'm just now getting set up to load for. It's been gathering dust in the safe for a while, but now that my Mihec 459122 mold has arrived, it's time to get serious. I've only fired it a few times and with factory ammo only so far - definitely a fierce muzzle blast with the muzzle break on the Katahdin.

I don't know specs on the throat/chamber yet, but my understanding is that the encore action/barrel will handle at least as much as a marlin 1895. I'm hoping to develop something that I can use in my guide gun too.

Will be interested in learning from some others who are ahead of us on this one.

Crawfobj

[school of mines]

I have loaded the Lee 405 gr hollow base and Lyman 457124 at trapdoor level loads in my Encore. The recoil was manageable. I have since loaded some with the Lee 500 gr GCs, but haven't fired them. The powder I used was 5744. I had difficulty using the Encore's iron sights, so I mounted a scope on the barrel this winter. Once the road clears to the range, I'll see how it shoots!

[Shooter]

I have one. With synthetic stock and Williams peep sights it weighs 6 pounds.
Lovely to carry, great stalking rifle.
I use 335Gr. Goulds boolits in mine. I have loaded it up to .450 BP Express levels with heavier boolits to shake my friends dentures.
It's nice to shoot a little and carry a lot.

[45r]

lightest 45-70 I have is marlin GS with aimpoint.With front bag under front of forearm and pulled in snug brp 420's are easy to shoot over 28.5 grains 5744,5 shots groups go 1 inch at 50 yards.

[rhbrink]

I have a 45-70 Encore that I have shot 500 grain boolits in these are a plain base RCBS silhouete mold shoot great but the recoil is more than I like. #7 rifle with scope and ammo carrier. I've since got the NOE 460-350 and after some experiments up into the 2200 fps range decided that 1700 fps is plenty for what I need. Accuracy is great and it is a very strong action just look to see the modern magnum rounds that it is chambered in.

[johnly]

The Encore is strong enough for Ruger #1 loads, but chances are you shoulder isn't. Been there... done that. Chances are with a light rifle, 1895 loads will be all you can confortably shoot from a recoil perspective.

John

[bearcove]

It will take more than you want! It will handle the belted mags. If I remember right Mike bellm is chambering 458 Lott in Encore. Mine is a 45-70 20" Katadin and its LIGHT! Marlin loads are more than I want to sit behind and shoot for fun:grin:

[largom]

As stated above the gun will take more than your shoulder can! I put a muzzle brake on mine and it still HURTS with heavy loads, but then I'm 67 yrs. old

Larry

[bearcove]

I think you might break your collar bone before you break the gun!

[onesonek]

As other's have stated, you can load higher than the Marlin load data into the #1 data. And I also agree it will not be all that easy on the shoulder,,, from the bench. But I find recoil more personal thing. The one thing you will likely run into while running higher pressure loads, is short case life due to primer pockets loosening up. While current production brass is much stronger than original "balloon head", it still isn't really designed to handle the pressure that the Encore or #1 will.

[69daytona]

I use the lee 405 and 500gr boolits loaded to max trapdoor levels but mine is only a 14" pistol barrel, kicks about like heavy S&W 500 loads of the same weight.

[aaalaska]

Agreed the Trapdoor loads thru the Contender pistol barrel is great, and the 350 bullet at under 1900 is all I need in the Encore, did find out that load is not good if your looking for meat and hit a bone.Nearly destroyed the front end of a small 125-135 lb black bear.
Alex

[218bee]

Any of ya ever shot the Encore with black powder??? I love shooting my Trapdoor 45/70 and 50/70 but am thinking of an Encore so I can scope it as my old eyes are givin me trouble. I wonder how either of the above would be using black powder in a min 28" barrel. I know the reduced weight of an Encore equals heavier recoil but maybe not too bad with Black powder?? anyone try it??

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

BOLT THRUST??????????????

Yes, the Encore shoots, and safely, some of the high intensity rounds.

But, what about bolt thrust issues with the 45/70 case when compared to the smaller 30/06 and belted mag. cases?

Not sure I'd want to shoot the same loads in a Encore that I put in my #1, especially considering the weight factor.

The #1, 45/70 is not a heavy rifle, so anything lighter might be an experience.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[bearcove]

Bolt thrust is calculated using body dia of case if I remember right. .513 for Mag case, .505 for 45-70 So if correct same pressure give less thrust with 45-70

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Could be, I really don't know.

But I do know that the head of the 45/70 is a fair margin larger then the standard head size of 300H&H/375H&H based rounds.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[bearcove]

The rim doesn't count "if" I am correct.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Again you could be correct, but it - the rim - also is part of the head which is providing "thrust."

Maybe someone who really knows will fill in the gaps.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol' Coot

[fireball168]

The piston used to calculate bolt thrust is the inside diameter of the case head.

[onesonek]

The rim doesn't count "if" I am correct.


The piston used to calculate bolt thrust is the inside diameter of the case head.

This is correct,,,the rim diameter has no factor in bolt thrust.
One could feasibly run the same pressure as the belted mags chambered by factory. Again however, at those pressure levels, you will see blown primer pockets. At trapdoor levels, todays brass will last darn near forever if annealed ocassionally. I found in my #1, loading above a 46,000 cup brass life dropped significantly. But even at 46,000 brass life was under 10 loadings. After playing around, I figured 42-44,000 cup was about right in my chamber. After that I figured if I needed more, I best get a .458WM

[BABore]

I spoke with a good friend of mine on this a few years ago. He's going commerical on high end 45-70 ammo and the like. He has alot of experience with pressure testing his 45-70 ammo in conjunction with Hodgdon's lab. Since we both have a few Encore's, I inquired if they was capable of handling Ruger #1 level 45-70 loads. His reply was almost, but to keep pressure around 50 kpsi. You do get some frame stretching going on in the Encore with high pressure loads. I know I can't get close to maximum with my 338 Win Mag bbl. IIRC I'm about 2-3 grains below book max. With a headspace case gauge like the one Mike Belm sells, you can measure the fired case setback when using bottleneck cases. My book starting loads for the 338 would cause a setback of about 0.002". Each addititional 1/2 grains powder increase would add an additional 0.002 to 0.003" of setback. My self imposed top load would setback 0.012". As I size to get a 0.001" headspace clearance, that means my frame is stretching 0.013". As this is only momentary and the frame returns or springs back, it is not a problem.

[RonE]

In my mind, my next project is a Martini rifle converted to 45-70 strictly for cast boolits. Black and smokless powders.

[HighHook]

I used to shoot a lot of full house loads through my tc Pistol super 14 w/muzzle brake. That is an Ooooooooooooooch!!!!!

Now days i just hand it off to my macho friends at the range and chuckle....

[bearcove]

Try them without the brake.