What is a Fair Price for Machine Work on Special Projects

[deltaenterprizes]

What do you feel is a fair price per hour for machine work on special projects ?

[Nobade]

I guess it depends on what it costs you to run your shop, and figuring in your enthusiasm level? For me, I charge $60/hour. And it costs $45/hour just to keep the lights on and the door open. That is figuring 0800h-1800h Monday through Friday.

[hickstick_10]

What do you feel is a fair price per hour for machine work on special projects ?

If you know what you want and have dimensioned drawings, or if you have the old part or what its supposed to fit, then the cost iswhatever the shop rate is. That runs anywhere from 50-100 bucks an hour if its a real machine shop. If its an old lathe and mill in your garage, 30 bucks an hour cash is still cheaper then going to a commercial shop. But there should be a realistic performance on the "per hour" basis for the home shop option, basically that means that if it takes a guy in his garage 3 hours to do something that takes a commercial shop a half hour, the customer should not have to pay MORE for home job guy.

The customer should not have to pay for a home shops "learning curve". It also means that he/she shouldn't be paying extra for for a home shop to take 3 hours to reduce a diameter by or bore a hole 6 inches by 6 inches on a worn out old lathe with dull HSS tools.

For someone who is waving their hands and vaguely describing what they want made,I always quoted high.............very high (at least 160 % the shop rate), because its a polite way to get these people out of the shop. Life is too short and too full of customers you know will pay. to risk it on someone who's to lazy to figure out what they need made. There's a very high chance of the parts you make for someone who does not provide their own drawings or definite ideas for "special projects" not fitting or performing to their satisfaction.

If they dont balk at the ridiculously high price, then they deserve the royal treatment because they're paying extra for it after all.

Jobber shops get a lot of nut cases coming to them. Like flies to ****, a machine shop seems to attract weirdos, so be careful.

[Bullshop]

In our shop we set the labor cost at $20.00 per hour, $30.00 per hour if you watch, and $40.00 per hour if you help.

[John Taylor]

I just uped my shop rate to $75 but I don't think I ever charged the full amount of time put into a job. I was told one time to add cleanup time to the job but never did. Also I have not got around to charging for time on the phone like some shops do. Sometimes a customer will waist more time talking about a job than it take to do it.

[Bullshop]

I had a friend in Mt. that about 20 years ago or so told me he bid on machining jobs for the state at $300.00 per hour on the estimated time it would take.
He said he won most of the bids.

[hickstick_10]

Did he have a few guys working on the same job?

[Bullshop]

No he was a one man show.

[MiHec]

In our shop we set the labor cost at $20.00 per hour, $30.00 per hour if you watch, and $40.00 per hour if you help.

How true :smile:

[JIMinPHX]

The going shop rate is usually around $35-$60 per hour on manual equipment, depending on what part of the country you are in. CNC rates are higher, but the output justifies that quickly if you have large quantities or need complex curves.

Any time that you spend helping the guy to fix his design, or improve his drawings needs to be billed at shop rate.

People like Buckshot work well below established shop rates. I can only assume that he does it because he loves to do it & is a generous person.

[Buckshot]

The going shop rate is usually around $35-$60 per hour on manual equipment, depending on what part of the country you are in. CNC rates are higher, but the output justifies that quickly if you have large quantities or need complex curves.

Any time that you spend helping the guy to fix his design, or improve his drawings needs to be billed at shop rate.

People like Buckshot work well below established shop rates. I can only assume that he does it because he loves to do it & is a generous person.

...................HA! I just try to be realistic about my capabilities. I can't see charging someone $45/hr if I don't have the tool or machine that would allow (whatever the job is) to be accomplished in a timely manner. Conversely, if it's something I've never done before I can't charge for the actual time it took me. The most I've ever charged for one job was $275 and it took 2 days and the morning of the 3rd. Was I working on it the entire time? Nope, but I was almost constantly THINKING about it :veryconfu

My cousin was working on a large forklift powered by a Waukesha Diesel. The fan hub and pullys (one cast iron piece) was a press fit on the waterpump shaft, which was hardened steel. The hub had loosened, and the pump shaft had been replaced, and now the hub had loosened again. Maybe a big time shop could have welded the hub up and machined it back to work again, but my only option was to sleeve the hub.

I had the tools required, being a lathe, faceplate, boring bars, a freezer and a BBQ :shock: Being honest I was afraid of screwing it up. I put on the faceplate, mounted and indicated the hub and started boring:

http://www.fototime.com/816B32CA4B9E87E/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/D66C40169E05C42/standard.jpg

The hole for the sleeve couldn't be bored straight through or it might get pressed out when it was being pressed onto the pump shaft, so I had to leave an internal shoulder. The inside rear of the hub presses on a belleville washer that keeps the seal in place and it's surface was all chewed up, so the pressed in shaft would have to have a flange on it. To be thick enough to work (I figured) I had to face off 1/8" of the fan hub.

Off came the face plate and on went the 3 jaw chuck and the hole for the pump shaft was bored in a piece of steel. I had a couple books that had charts of interference fits for various shaft OD's. That was the easy part. Then the chuck came off, the insert was put on a mandrell and placed between centers and IT was turned for IT'S press fit into the fan hub. The evening of the 2nd day, after much reflection and 'putting off', I pressed the insert into the fan hub, via a hydraulic press. The water pump was put into the chest freezer.

The morning of the 3rd day the fan hub was placed over a burner of the gas BBQ, and left to 'cook' [smilie=l: while I dithered thinking about how many ways this final op could go wrong! I set the short bucking bar up centered under the ram of the press ................and dithered some more. Dithering is a way to work up your courage I guess :D Got the fireplace log squeezer pliers like thing and got the fan hub out of the BBQ and set it on a board, then got the pump out of the freezer(and thank God, remembered to put the belleville washer on) and set the impeller shaft end on the bucking bar. Put on gardening gloves and then my welding gloves, picked up the hot hub and set it on the shaft, then worked the hydraulic pump handle for all I was worth!

It worked, but I did have to quickly stick a 2' piece of pipe over the 10" long pump handle before I was finished. Once it bottomed (and I was afraid it wouldn't) I sat there waiting for that cast iron hub to bust! It didn't. That was several years ago and for quite some time at family gatherings I'd ask him about it, and he said it was working fine. Haven't done any like that since then and really don't want to again, either!

................Buckshot

[deltaenterprizes]

Good job, that is the kind of jobs we did most days in the job shop I worked in when I first got out of school. That kind of shop is a great place to learn work holding and tricks from the old timers.
In another job shop there was a jug of liquid nitrogen to shrink parts and a 2 rose bud torches were used to heat parts.
One piece of equipment that was interesting was an induction bearing heater.
I miss working in the shops but the heat and cold are intolerable now.

Thanks for the idea of using the BBQ pit to heat the part!

[theperfessor]

I don't have to depend on doing machine work to make a living so I only do outside work when the opportunity presents itself such as when a local shop gets behind and needs to sub things out or a job looks interesting and I might learn something from it. Because of my full time job position I also get a lot of "inventors" wanting me to make things for them. These are generally the worst people to work with because they usually are totally clueless on what it takes to make something, have no money to develop a product, and have been turned down flat by commercial shops before they get to me.

I charge by the job, not the hour. If a local non-profit agency that does work I believe in needs help I often do the work free or charge just for the tooling if I need to buy something I don't have. Since commercial shops know how much it costs to do something in-house quoting cost on a per piece basis allows them to decide quickly whether my services are needed and I can get on with the job or get them out of my hair.

Charging by the job also provides an incentive for me to work smart to maximize my earnings and get the job done expeditiously.

Allow me to state my admiration here for Buckshot, PatMarlin, DeltaE, and several others here who do machine work as a full time way to earn a living. It's a hard, but at least to me an honest and satisfying way to put the beans on the table.

[felix]

Remember, it's only WORK if you'd rather be doing something else. Towards the end of my career, I worked as a one man job shop. I did not get to pick the work, but I got to pick the process, software, hardware to solve the problem that was "over the top" for the employees on-hand. Sometimes the solution was put into production as I developed it, and other times the solution was explained in detail so other developers could rework the solution into a more compliant operation that was not considered too much "off-the-wall" for maintenance. ... felix

[JIMinPHX]

I also get a lot of "inventors" wanting me to make things for them. These are generally the worst people to work with because they usually are totally clueless on what it takes to make something, have no money to develop a product, and have been turned down flat by commercial shops before they get to me.


Those are exactly the people that I was referring to when I spoke of "time that you spend helping the guy to fix his design, or improve his drawings". I've had 1 go-round too many in helping out those guys for free. More often than not, I now fall into the category of the people that turn them down. That's not always the case. If the guy seems to actually have a good idea & seems willing to accept reality for what it is, I still take a crack at a few of them from time to time.

[deltaenterprizes]

Perfessor,
I am now retired due to a couple of disabilities or I would be turning handles!

Machining is now a part of advanced reloading. I do look for small paying jobs to help pay for tooling and materials. I think I have recouped about $643.97 of the over $10,000 I have invested in machines and tooling!
The tool & cutter grinder I just ordered just set me back $550 so make that $10,550 in machines and tooling, I could have bought a bunch of boolit molds and a couple of custom rifles for that much!

[theperfessor]

I try to be diplomatic when I turn down clueless inventors. I have learned to price a job high enough to be sure I come out OK and let them turn themselves down for me. Or I suggest they sign a contract that requires them to pay for materials and tooling and gives me 1/2 ownership of their patent if they have one. Works every time!

[JIMinPHX]

I do look for small paying jobs to help pay for tooling and materials. I think I have recouped about $643.97 of the over $10,000 I have invested in machines and tooling!


That sounds about right. My ledgers probably look about the same as yours do.

[Buckshot]

...........I've had a couple episodes with the, "You're the machinist, I thought you'd know" people. Not bad folks, but I believe they 'assume'. You have a hammer so it follows you can build a house, right ?:smile:

One guy wanted me to make him a simple draw die to lengthen cartridge brass, and he had a drawing with the dimensions. No material specs or heat threatment requirements, and no idea if any was needed. Neither did I. I finally asked what he figured something like this would cost. He said he figured it would cost about what a set of reloading dies cost. :groner: I explained they had 'lines' dedicated to die production with automated machinery, bought their tooling in large quantities and if they heat treated in house or sent it out it was large batches. And no I couldn't make it for $35.

Another wanted to swage lead boolits and then roll the lube grooves and crimp groove in. We corresponded for some little bit discussing issues back and forth. When he said in all humility, "I'm sure you'll eventually figure it out" [smilie=b: I knew then he didn't have a clue about how an idea might entail quite a bit of trial and error. I suggested if he wanted to foot the bill for an initial design, and then deposit a sum into an escrow account for me to draw on for subsequent materials and tools to bring it to fruition we could do that. Or I could build one just like Corbin's simple cannelure machine at 80% of it's current catalog price, he decided neither sounded like something he wanted to do.

.................Buckshot

[cajun shooter]

I went to two years of machine shop and wished I had finished but life moves you in certain paths. I ended up going to LSU and taking criminal Justice classes to become a Deputy Sheriff in Baton Rouge, La. The two friends that I went to school with became first class machinist and worked when and how they wanted as the area has so many chemical plants that you could leave one job in the morning and be working again by noon. I have had buckshot make me a couple of Kate Cutters and he could have been a first class if he had started at another time in his life. I was going to become a machinist in the aero industry. At 63 I still want a small lathe to play with. We never grow up do we.