Am I to picky

[Lightning Ross]

Question for you casters. I cast 100 bullets for my 357 20lbs clean ww 1/2llb 50/50 solder not sure of temp I dont have a thermo. Lee six hole 150 swc.mould. After sizeing 358 all measured dead on 358 out of sizer and lubing rcbs green came with the machine.I weighed my final product 84 came out 146grn oal .651 6came out 148 oal .654. 10 150 oal 656. I supose I stick with the 146.And load for 148 specks and throw the rest back in the pot. Any Ideas why Im not getting the majority at 150. And am I being to picky for cast pistol bullets?I have not ever weighed or measured comercial cast bullets. Makes me think a little more now.Any thoughts or advice on geting to 150 consitinaly?

[handyrandyrc]

Yeah just load 'em up and shoot them. We're talking about 2 grains in bullet weight here -- do you REALLY shoot that well with a PISTOL to make a difference?

It's for pistol for heck's sakes. :) If you were a super-duper benchrest shooter I could maybe understand, but not for shooting pistol...

[versifier]

Try them and see if you have a shift in your POI. It might make no difference in your barrel, but then again it might. Only testing will tell you. Personally, I doubt it will make a difference in handgun loads at normal ranges.

I see similar variations with some moulds, too, but others are more consistant. In a multi-cavity mould, it is quite possible that there are differences from one to another. The more cavities, the greater the likelihood of variation among them. To find out, you will need to separate them as they are cast/lubed/sized. If you are using a bottom pour pot, even without a thermometer, I think it less likely that you are seeing the variations due to your casting technique, and more likely to be the mould.

[44man]

If you can see any difference between those boolits even at 200 yd's, you are a lot better then the rest of us. I quit weighing boolits years ago and just go by appearance. Unless you really like to weigh them and enjoy casting them over and over, don't get anal. Just shoot them.

[Lightning Ross]

HR you are abuslutley right Im no super duper shooter but need to stack every thing in my direction as much as posible.Some day When I grow up I would like to be one.I have this gun and 2 45lc both are Larry Crowes guns and the 357 is tuned by Wes Flowers. I would just hate to make them ashamed of me and runaway from home. V mabey after I shoot some of these I will try a lyman or Rcbs steel mould. This stuff is Interesting and agravating fun.

[floodgate]

Lightning:

Since the weight increases along with the length, look at the sprue cutoff stub on the base of the boolits. If it sticks out a bit on the heavier / longer ones, there's your extra weight, and a bit more careful setting of the sprue plate or more consistent timing of the cut-off will improve your uniformity. But you're really "good to go" as it is.

floodgate

[Buckshot]

.................Lightning Ross, as others have mentioned I too just do a visual inspection on my boolits before processing them, paying special attention to the base (first look is when swinging the sprueplate). This suffices for 95% of my shooting both pistol and rifle, and I am accepting of an occasional leaker from the group. I don't particularly LIKE it maybe, but accept it as a trade off in time spent at the bench.

On the other hand, for the utmost accuracy if that is what you have to have, then yes you have to scale and harshly inspect each boolit before and after processing. Of course the same has to be said for the other aspects of reloading the ammunition also, or that time is wasted.

At one time a couple ammunition companies loaded 38 Special wadcutter target ammo that was almost impossible to duplicate for accuracy, at home with cast bullets. They used swagged lead slugs with almost zero weight difference, loaded on specially setup and tended machinery. Since bullseye competition isn't that popular anymore, I don't know if there is such ammo yet available.

As others suggested, you should try what you have and see if it performs to a level you can accept. No sense spending a lot of unnecessary tinkering time if it isn't called for. As an auto engine would surely benefit from an oil and filter change every thousand miles, in real life the benefit doesn't come near the cost and hassle.

On the other hand, the confidence you have in your ammunition plays a part in how well you do with it, so you have to satisfy yourself in that respect also. I figure it pretty well boils down to spending the time and expending the effort necessary to produce the ammunition to meet your expected minimum results.

As an example of that last paragraph, I have a lovely K38 S&W that is a shooting SOB. I cast for it mainly with a Lee 6 cavity mould for thier 148gr WC slug. I cast it of pure lead, visually inspect and then tumble lube them. Then load them in a Dillon with 2.7grs of Bullseye. Not a very imaginative load :-). Off sandbags at 25 yards they'll generally all land in the 10 ring going maybe 1.5".

Off hand I can shoot pretty much up in the high 80's and have even shot into the lower 90'son NRA 25 yard pistol bulls. Personal best to date was a 95 and I forget the X count. The point is, I'm not willing to spend the time and enegry required to become a better bullseye shot, or to demand better ammunition then that. You have to deside what you're happy with.

.................Buckshot

[Zig308]

I weighed some store bought jacketed Hornady's and they were VERY close to the170gn printed on the box,,, but few were actually 170gn,,, If Hornady is fine with this spread on factory's, I'm fine with the spread on my casts. Since I'm a class 2 anal retentive I am forced to group all my boolits as close as possible... weigh and group each to the nearest grain, load and segregate them. ( When I become class 1, I'll take it out to the nearest 10th)
Good shooting, Zig

[Phil]

I had two well tuned 45 automatics some years ago. In the Ransom rest both would shoot ten shot groups into .7" at 25 yards with the Lyman 452460 cast in a four cavity mold and loaded after visual inspection only. Bullets were not segregated as to cavity. Both guns would do this regularly. I don't worry about pistol bullets at all anymore. No way can I shoot that well from any rest, let alone offhand.

Cheers,

Phil

[Char-Gar]

I have been casting and shooting bullets in a mess of handguns for 47 years and I have yet to weight my first handgun bullet. In by gone days I used to shoot some pretty decent scores in Bullseye pistol matches.

Like others, my handgun bullets get only a visual inspection... Yea... you are too picky!

[Sven Dufva]

Question for you casters. I cast 100 bullets for my 357 20lbs clean ww 1/2llb 50/50 solder not sure of temp I dont have a thermo. Lee six hole 150 swc.mould. After sizeing 358 all measured dead on 358 out of sizer and lubing rcbs green came with the machine.I weighed my final product 84 came out 146grn oal .651 6came out 148 oal .654. 10 150 oal 656. I supose I stick with the 146.And load for 148 specks and throw the rest back in the pot. Any Ideas why Im not getting the majority at 150. And am I being to picky for cast pistol bullets?I have not ever weighed or measured comercial cast bullets. Makes me think a little more now.Any thoughts or advice on geting to 150 consitinaly?

Check weight and oal and sort them, then test them on the range. You will see the difrence between lightest and most hevy.
I check by weight and sort in 3 groups for competision upp to 200 yards. On short range you will find very small diffrence.

[Bass Ackward]

Lightning,

Well .... you have heard the opinions here. And you gotta add me to that list. I couldn't tell ya how bad my handgun bullets are. Why just last weekend I mutilated noses on cast and had group sizes drop by 500% or more in a handgun.

As long as the base is good, out she goes. But that is me. I shoot a handgun .... like a handgun.

Now if you want to shoot a handgun .... like a rifle at rifle distances, .... now maybe you need to conduct some experiments to satisfy yourself. See what your handgun says. That's the only .... opinion that counts. And each gun can have a different answer depending on how finicky it is. I have two Redhawks in 44 mag. One is kind and one is cruel.

You have to do .... what ever it takes, no more, no less, to make that one gun work to your satisfaction. Once there, you can move on to the next task.

[carpetman]

I knew a guy that I thought was too picky. He washed and waxed his lawnmower after each use. It was not a riding lawnmower,nor a fancy one of any sorts. If someone opened a can in his house they had to wash the can--to prevent ants--maybe not all that picky. When he went to lunch,when he came back he had to rearrange anything that might have been slightly moved while he was gone. I'd say you are too picky even if you dont do any of those things. Afterall,what excuse can you possibly offer if you miss a shot? Gotta leave something to blame it on.

[Lightning Ross]

What would you guys load these boolits with I dont see 146 grain loads in my books 148 grain are listed as wad cutters and very light or go ahead and load for the intended mould weight of 150 as if I didnt weigh them. I have 2400 ,Unique and black powder subs. and goex 2 f and 3 f

[Cloudpeak]

I had two well tuned 45 automatics some years ago. In the Ransom rest both would shoot ten shot groups into .7" at 25 yards
Phil

Had?
.7" at 25 yards?
And you no longer have these guns? Wow!

CP

[versifier]

What would you guys load these boolits with I dont see 146 grain loads in my books 148 grain are listed as wad cutters and very light or go ahead and load for the intended mould weight of 150 as if I didnt weigh them. I have 2400 ,Unique and black powder subs. and goex 2 f and 3 f

Use the 150gr data. I'm assuming you are shooting them from a revolver. UNQ 6-8gr, 2400 14.5-16gr. Those loads are on the warmish side, but not maximum. Load them in .5gr increments and shoot two full cylinders per group at 25yds, and at least two groups per increment (more is better). Then compare the results to see what your gun likes best.

[Char-Gar]

Lordy Lightnin! A couple of grains weight will make no difference in which loading data to use...unless..you start with max/red line loads..which is a dumb idea to start with.

Full wadcutter data needs some thinking about. Shoot most hollow based wadcutter beyone 750 fps or so and you run the risk of blowing off the skirt and leaving it in the barrel as an obstruction for the next round to snack into...bad Karma in that!

Shoot solid base wadcutters as fast as you want, but accuracy may get to be iffy if you use those soft swaged gizmos.

4.5 to 5 grains of Unique under your bullets will make you a happy man.

[Phil]

Hi Cloudpeak,

Yep, had! Wish I had them back too!!!!!!!!!!! Don't remember why I got rid of them, more guns, an airplane, whatever. Sigh, the story of my life.

Cheers,

Phil

[fecmech]

Could that be a P-40 in your picture Phil?

[slughammer]

What would you guys load these boolits with I dont see 146 grain loads in my books 148 grain are listed as wad cutters and very light or go ahead and load for the intended mould weight of 150 as if I didnt weigh them. I have 2400 ,Unique and black powder subs. and goex 2 f and 3 f

Along with the idea of not worrying about the weight and working up loads using 150 gr data. Please note that boolit design and crimp groove location dictate case capacity and this plays a part in pressure when working up loads.

158gr boolit design A and 158gr boolit design B may not create equal pressures with equal loads, this is why we work up.

[Phil]

Hi fecmech,

Actually, its a Bell P-63 A7 with a -135 engine (as I recall). Thats me sitting on the wing. The picture was taken at Bill Martin's SkyTech facility at Cleveland Municipal Airport in 1948. The plane belonged to Russ Hosler, a buddy of my dad's, and won the Sohio Trophy and was second in the Tinnerman Trophy at the National Air Races that year. The plane was originally owned by Howard Lilly, NACA test pilot who was killed in the Douglas D-558-1 at Muroc.

Cheers,

Phil

[fecmech]

Thanks Phil, the picture was not too clear on my pc screen thats why I asked. P-63, was that the one with the engine behind the pilot with the long drive shaft to the prop??
I've got a soft spot for those old planes, my Dad worked in the Curtiss Wright plant during the war here in Buffalo building P-40s. I think they, along with the Mustang were some of the best looking airplanes ever built, and I love the sound that Allison makes on a low level high speed pass! Take care Nick

[mosin9130]

Lightning ross,
from the questions you posted (mostly the ones about the powder), it seems that you're at the beginning of pistol cartridges reload.
That's my recipe if you wanna fire tight groups from a 357 mag revolver and wad cutters:

1) look carefully at the brass you're using: very small splits on the edge of the case mouth and different lenght of the shell influence greatly the (needed) crimp force and the subsequent pressure the bullet have on its base when start to leave the shell. Throw away splitted shell and trim to equal lenght all the cases.

2) As still told by others, look for perfect base bullet: the blow the base receive from the gases when leave the barrel is hundreds time that that the nose of the bullet will suffer from air during the entire flight. So, an imperfection on the base could easily open your group.

3) Size your bullet to the diameter of the CYLINDER throat of YOUR revolver; a misalignement here is more difficult to correct when the bullet reach the barrell and has more velocity.

4) Hardness of the bullet: a very light load likes plain lead; maximum load needs a very hard bullet. Accuracy is NOT tied to the velocity: lyman manual shows better inherent accuracy on the max load and linotype but many peoples (me too) prefer small loads of very fast powders and pure lead. Your choice.

5) Keep the load weight as costant as you can. I keep the time to weigh every load but if you use an easy dosable powder, a powder mesure is ok.

6) Use 38 special cases. On this job, the 357 mag shell can hardly beat the 38 special (don't ask why).

7)Search a load good enough to fire a good group from sand rest and next use only it untill your freehand groups are about twice in size than that from the sand rest. Only next, search for a better load.
It's a waste of time to search for half-tenth-of-inch gun/bullet accuracy if you're not able with it to hit freehand a house ten paces in front of you.

That's my two cents.