StarMetal...can ya hear me?

[RBak]

Can ya hear me now?

A model 96 recently followed me home, and I would like to start casting for it.

Where would you suggest starting? I don't even have brass, or dies yet, as I have been busy trying to figure out the muzzleloader I got into recently also.

I would assume it is typical of most Mdl.96's...all matching serial numbers, bore looks pretty good to these old eyes. I did run a patch through it.

The Armorer's Plate on the side:.....The largest wedge is stamped 2. The smallest wedge is stamped 1. It is my understanding this is good, or okay, and indicates the rifle is / was serviceable.

I am really impressed with the smoothness of this action. I have never owned a Swede before, but I now understand a little bit better why folks like these old things....Since I also shoot a lot of muzzleloaders, I love that long barrel!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v143/RussB256/6.jpg

I haven't learned how to control the flash on my camera yet, and everything I try close up gets washed out ,seems like.
This is the Armorers Disk on the side....if you can see it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v143/RussB256/ArmourPlate.jpg

As always, any help appreciated.

Russ

[StarMetal]

Russ

Nice looking rifle. Waksupi, Oldfeller, Buckshot, and Jumptrap , heck even 45 2.1, Beagle, lots of guys on here are better equipped to answer loads for your Swede then me as I don't have one.

Joe

[RBak]

I guess the above post should have been directed to Buckshot, and a few of you other guys. Sorry.

Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?

I was just telling Joe, Old age is whuppin my butt!
This "Golden Years" crap really sucks!

Russ

[Scrounger]

Russ

Nice looking rifle. Waksupi, Oldfeller, Buckshot, and Jumptrap , heck even 45 2.1, Beagle, lots of guys on here are better equipped to answer loads for your Swede then me as I don't have one.

Joe

Yes, but if you did, it would shoot one inch groups... [smilie=l:

[StarMetal]

Art

You are so right...why I'd show those Sweden residents how to make their rifles really shoot.

Joe

[Scrounger]

RussB, I'm pretty sure I have brass and dies in that caliber somewhere in the garage. If you're in no big hurry, I may be able to find them in a few days.

[Buckshot]

............Russ, the smallest triangle with the 1, 2, 3 in it is the barrel's condition as checked and marked during an arsenal visit. I've never seen one marked '3' but have heard of those owning such that they cannot detect any visual difference in barrel condition or shooting potential between it and one marked '1'.

The largest wedge with the 2 rows of numbers is a LAND measurement at a certain distance in the leade. It may have something to do with barrel condition or just manufacturing tolerance. The inner line starting with 6.46 7, 8, 9, 0, and then that above it starting with 6.51, 2, 3, 4, 5, up to 9 will have a small triangle or 'v' stamped above one of the numbers.

If you had a '3' marked for barrel condition and then a 6.55 marked, I would take that to be an indication of a somewhat more worn barrel. I doubt it would affect the rifle's ability to shoot well, regardless.

If stamped above the 8 in the inner row, that is a 6.48mm measurement. Ditto a 'v' over a 3 in the outer row would be a 6.53mm measurement. Should there be 2 marks then you take the larger of them.

I got one of my M96's just now to look at and the disc shows no marking at all as to barrel condition. The other mark is 6.52mm. On the underside of the wrist a 'crown CG' is marked which indicates it has had arsenal work done. On the left side of the barrel a couple inches behind the muzzle is a small '2'. This is the 2nd barrel to have been on this action.

So what this means is that when the new barrel was put on it got a new stock disc. Since the barrel was new no indicator was stamped, but the leade was checked for land diameter and it WAS stamped. While the bore is nice as can be, I'm sure it was returned to service and had been shot but had not been viewed again by arsenal personel for a barrel condition stamp.

The section marked Torped, and Overslag (and it would have a number) was the amount of difference to use for the rear sight if using the old 160gr RN or the 139gr spitzer. Mine is marked '0' as it has a newer type rear sight for the spitzer. I see yours has a range decal, and that's what it is for. Sight differences for the 2 bullet designs.

If you want to see if your rifle is truly all matching, you'll have to take it apart. The stock and handguard will be either stamped or written in pencil with the serial number. If any of the parts have a tilted crown stamp, that means a Huskavarna part. While this was an arsenal replacement, anal collectors discount it a it's a non-CG part on a CG rifle. Ditto any electro penciled serial numbers.

It's no more difficult to shoot cast in a Swede then any other rifle. You just can't go as fast is all, due to the 7.8" twist. All the load data I have pertains to cast boolit designs that are no longer available. Those are the Jumptrap 1st Edition 140gr FN, the Ly 268645 at 152grs and the Oldfeller 172gr FN. I have no experience with any current design, but suspect they'd respond just as well.

As Joe mentioned, there are several shooters on this board who campaign the Swede and all have been successful with it using various powders. But of them all you will find success pretty well limited to 1700 fps and less.

..............Buckshot

[Maven]

RussB, Let me add a few points to what Buckshot said. (He's 100% correct, as usual.) First, 6.5mm cast bullet designs seem to be less popular today than years ago, barring the Lee custom runs, since there are few new ones available. E.g., Lyman dropped its very accurate #268645 several years ago. Which design will work in your rifle will be determined by its bore/throat dimensions. E.g., Vly and another friend can use the ~140gr. Lyman Loverin in their 6.5 x 55's with great success, but mine doesn't like it because it's too small. If you're considering a mold, ask Buckshot whether he'll add you to the list of the Lee 122gr., 6 cav. custom run. Also, search EBay for 6.5mm molds: There's a Lyman #268645 (150gr., tapered, Ed Schmitt design; a scaled down version of #311644) up for bids right now.

Loading data isn't problematic, but finding a load that doesn't exceed 1,700fps may be. Whereas Buckshot likes the slow WC 860 with CB's, I find it's too inefficient (high ES's, too much unburned powder) for my tastes. However, you may come to know true bliss with H/IMR 4198, VV N133, AA 5744, Unique, or 2400. Milsurp WC 820 works very well and is much more cost effective than the others IF you purchase enough for HiTech, Bartlett, etc. to absorb the Hazmat fee.

[45 2.1]

I guess the above post should have been directed to Buckshot, and a few of you other guys. Sorry.
Russ

Russ-
Go here for the 170 Oldfeller:
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000066.5SWED
Shoot as cast in an fireformed unsized case (if it fits) with 11.3 of Unique for a nice plinker. The Lyman 266469 does nicely with that load also. The 96s generally have a .268" to .269" throat and like large bullets. If you can get a light cast bullet of that size, try it also.

[carpetman]

RussB----I aint Starmetal and I don't even play him on TV. I don't think there is a TV series of Starmetal as one hole groups would be boring anyways. You asked where you should start casting for the 6.5. That's easy,cast for it same place you do others. For me the actual casting is in my reloading room and making ingots is done outside.

[Oldfeller]

Now, here is a magic trick you can only reliably do with the long 170 grain 6.5 Swede bullet from Midsouth. You need not buy a mold to do this, some list member will send you a few to work the magic if you just ask for them.

Take any of the low end (starting range) 160 grain jacketed loads and cut them down a wee bit for safety's sake (10 grains of extra bullet weight's worth of safety decrease). Don't make up very many, you can get magical quite reliably with 3-5 loaded rounds and that's all you need to make up until you get used to the magic effect.

Now put up a target at 50 feet and shoot a few at the bullseye. Anticipated speeds for the load should be around 2,300 to 2,500 fps for best magical effect. Don't worry, if you fill all the lube gooves you will not get a trace of leading in your bore at these speeds -- leading has never been an issue with this bullet to anyone's experience when all the lube grooves are filled.

Report your findings to the board members for analysis .......

(small blissful innocent smile)

Now you will understand Karlina a bit better.

She is a tall mysterious blonde with a bit of a twist to her walk.

<g>

Oldfeller

[jh45gun]

I would think 16 to 18 grains of 2400 ( Harris'es "The Load" ) would work good in the Swede it works darn well in any other milsurp cases I have used it in. Some call the Load 13 grains of red dot but this is also called the Load according to a C.E. Harris article I read on shooting Cast and Milsurps. Jim

[StarMetal]

Aw geez Oldfeller!!! That's a terrible thing to do to the nice fellow.

Joe

[StarMetal]

RussB----I aint Starmetal and I don't even play him on TV. I don't think there is a TV series of Starmetal as one hole groups would be boring anyways. You asked where you should start casting for the 6.5. That's easy,cast for it same place you do others. For me the actual casting is in my reloading room and making ingots is done outside.

Ray

I have to admit, I got a really good chuckle out of that one. For that I will reward you with a couple back stage passes to my show.

Joe

[45 2.1]

Oldfellers disappearing bullet trick doesn't work too well if you put copper driving bands on the first and last bands and cast them hard.

[StarMetal]

Bob,

That's true. By the way where would one get bands that size? Not that I have a mould yet, but interesting.

Joe

[Buckshot]

Aw geez Oldfeller!!! That's a terrible thing to do to the nice fellow.

Joe

I don't know how terrible it would be, but it would really be edjumakashunal.

............Buckshot

[45 2.1]

Bob,

That's true. By the way where would one get bands that size? Not that I have a mould yet, but interesting.

Joe

Joe-
Wolfe Publishing (Handloader/Rifle) put out some Bullet Annuals some years ago. There was an article about "Wilke Checks". He took a regular gas check and punched out the center to make a doughnut, sized so they would fit a hot mold and put them in the mold with tweezers and cast, bingo copper driving bands. Very good article about how to do it. In the 50's, Barnes put copper driving bands out commercially for several calibers. This is an old idea from the 1800s. If you have a small lathe, you can try just about anything you can read about or think up, it just takes up alot of your time.

[Slowpoke]

[QUOTE=45 2.1]Joe-
Wolfe Publishing (Handloader/Rifle) put out some Bullet Annuals some years ago. There was an article about "Wilke Checks".

The article is by Dave Scoville. in the Volume 1 (1990) of Handloader's bullet making annual,

Interesting as well is Floodgate was kind enough to send me an article from a 1922 Rifleman's mag. that showed a cast bullet designed by Charles Gebhard, with a check on the middle drive band of a spire point bullet.

Good luck

[RBak]

Geeesh! A Lot of good stuff here. I don't know where to start.

Scrounger.... When you say, "I'm pretty sure I have brass and dies in that caliber somewhere in the garage".......Take your time. Like you..."I have the rest of my life to get it done". (I like that!)

Carpetman.... Ray, what's a mother to do?
I will, most likely, start right where you suggested....in the shop!

Oldfeller.... That tall mysterious blonde does sound interesting, But I don't think I got one with this rifle....maybe I should have asked. Do they come with instructions?

Buckshot.... Lots of good information...per usual. I certainly appreciate the info on the Armorers Disk....where do you learn all this stuff???

You mentioned the crowns on the wrist area as though it might mean the number of trips to the "depot", or Arsenal....I have two such crowns, although they are not "tilted". I had not even noticed these until you mentioned it. Does that mean it went back twice? And / or is that a Huskavarna replacemnt stock on a CG rifle?

On the muzzle end there is the lettering........CAI ST.A. VI (or V1)

One last thing.....On the largest wedge of the disk...following the 6.51 row of numbers, the "V" stamp is over the number 2....does that mean the bore is 6.52?

Maven.... Thanks, I will check on that mould. I do have to admit to never getting anything from eBay that I couldn't have bought for less somewhere else. Kinda like me building things....I can build it for $50, or I can go buy it for $30.......VBG...But all that practice has to have some value.

45 2.1..... Bob, I will be ordering this mould. The status, right now, is "on Order....Overdue". Several other folks have mention getting the heaviest bullet possible for the Swede. 170gr is pretty done-gone heavy IMHO.


Thanks again for all the advice. And, for the excellent edjumakashun.

Respectfully, Russ

[carpetman]

Someone from Hollywood must be reading this board. There is going to be a Starmetal series and the lead role(Starmetal Character)will be played by none other than Phyliss Diller.

[Buckshot]

...........RussB, ".........You mentioned the crowns on the wrist area as though it might mean the number of trips to the "depot", or Arsenal....I have two such crowns, although they are not "tilted". I had not even noticed these until you mentioned it. Does that mean it went back twice? And / or is that a Huskavarna replacemnt stock on a CG rifle?"

The crowns stamped on the wrist (in the wood) means that minor stuff was done to it at an arsenal. A 'Tilted Crown' is a mark placed on metal parts at manufacture and it's tilted to denote non CG manufacture.

".......... On the muzzle end there is the lettering........CAI ST.A. VI (or V1)"

That's the importers stamp, Century Arms International, St Albans Vermont and was required by the 1986 relaxation of firearms import law.

"..........One last thing.....On the largest wedge of the disk...following the 6.51 row of numbers, the "V" stamp is over the number 2....does that mean the bore is 6.52?"

Yup, but it means that diameter on the lands at a distance from a reference point in the chamber or the boltface. Wear in the leade is more pronounced then anywhere else. If and inch is 25.3mm's it comes in at about .2577".

The overall generally fine condition of these Swedish rifles is due primerily to the fact that they were never used in combat. The Swedes having been neutral throught the last several major wars. There were I think it was, 20,000 "Volunteers" who went to Finnland to help fight the Soviets. Plus the rifles were all kept at home and not sent out as military gifts to other nations, so they had a close eye kept on them.

I don't know what the proceedure was for return to the arsenal, if it was unit or shots fired or just a time period. Regardless, there was a system in place. Another factor was that as a rule the average Swedish civilian was (and is) a pretty well educated person for the time. Compare this to the average run of the mill condition of rifles imported from Latin America. While they surely had a central core of proffessional soldiers, they also conscripted probably the bulk of their manpower.

................Buckshot

[45 2.1]

25.4mm per inch

[Buckshot]

25.4mm per inch

..........Okay, great. That 6.52mm comes in at .25673940949935815", give or take the odd decimal :-) !

............Buckshot