50/50 WW to PB ?

[gunslinger20]

How many of you are useing 50/50 WW to PB?, also what FPS limit. Do your moulds fill out adaquately?

[cabezaverde]

I have been thinking about this for my 38's and 45's.

[USSR]

That is my standard alloy, along with 2 oz. of tin in a 10# pot. Serves me for velocity ranges of 850 - 1050fps in my .45 Colt.

Don

[RobS]

Water quenched will work for higher pressure applications i.e. rifles and makes for a nice ductile boolit.

[buyobuyo]

I've been wondering the same thing.

I've been using ACWW with a little extra tin for my 9mm, and I'm getting a ring of lead at the end of the chamber in my match barrel. From what I've read, my alloy is too hard, so I'm hoping running 50/50 will solve the problem. If not, they shoot fine in my stock barrel without leading.

[knifemaker]

I have been using 50/50 WW to pure lead, no extra tin added for over a year in my practice 45ACP loads. Consisting of a 230 gr. TC bullet and no evidence of leading in several pistols. I even loaded a few up to about 950 FPS and still no leading. All air cooled. Have shot several thousand of them in my pistols and my son's IDPA pistol.

Feeding was excellant and so is accuracy.

[bbs70]

I use 50/50 in my 45lc and .40 cal Glock, with after market barrel.
Been doing this for several years now.

In the last 3 .45s I've fired about 30 k rounds and about 10 k in the .40
When I clean my guns I run a Lewis lead remover screen through the barrels, I have as of yet to find any lead on the screen.

[jmsj]

gunslinger20,
You didn't state what you want to use this alloy for.
I use 50WW/50Pb for round nose, SWC and RNFP pistol loads under or around 1000 fps. With good fill out most of the time, once in a while I'll have to add a little tin if the bands or crimp groove don't fill out well. Most of the time I get by without adding tin.

[gunslinger20]

Now we are getting some where I have been having problems with aruger bisley 45 colt lapped polished with J&B reamed tried different lubes still get some leading g/c boolits dont lead the only thing left is alloy.( rnfp 260 gn pb)

[gunslinger20]

That is my standard alloy, along with 2 oz. of tin in a 10# pot. Serves me for velocity ranges of 850 - 1050fps in my .45 Colt.

Don

Don these are alloy # that I can deal with easily, its a little hard to weigh out a 20 to 1 or what ever and get it down to the correct alloy for a pot full.
I dont have a problem with the 310 gn G/c high valosity but the standard V stuff wants to lead a little. also cant get Dars lube to the muzzle on my 7 1/2" bisley.

[RobS]

I'm getting a ring of lead at the end of the chamber in my match barrel.

This can happen if your chamber is large enough to accept a loaded round with a boolit that is too large for the throat. Simply put, as the boolit leaves the case it can shave off a small amount of lead as it enters barrel. The ogive can also add to this problem if you lube on a RCBS/Lyman/Saeco. Many times the lube grooves will fill with lube without actually sizing the top drive band and/or ogive of the boolit. Tumble lube boolits can also have this problem unless you are using the push through dies to size.

Try sizing the entire boolit; make sure you are even sizing the ogive if it is the diameter of the boolit or size to a smaller diameter if you can. My example is: A .454 bullet will chamber in my XD, but will leave that ring of lead right at the end of the chamber and builds up to the point that after two magazines it won't fully chamber those same rounds. Size the same boolits to .452 or even .453 and no problems.

[fredj338]

IT is pretty much what I use for my lower vel rounds, under 1100fps or so, in all my handgun calibers. Casts well, even the smaller 9mm, sized right, CarnRed lube, everything runs great. Much over that & I go to ww alloy to 1400-1500fps.

[gunslinger20]

This can happen if your chamber is large enough to accept a loaded round with a boolit that is too large for the throat. Simply put, as the boolit leaves the case it can shave off a small amount of lead as it enters barrel. The ogive can also add to this problem if you lube on a RCBS/Lyman/Saeco. Many times the lube grooves will fill with lube without actually sizing the top drive band and/or ogive of the boolit. Tumble lube boolits can also have this problem unless you are using the push through dies to size.

Try sizing the entire boolit; make sure you are even sizing the ogive if it is the diameter of the boolit or size to a smaller diameter if you can. My example is: A .454 bullet will chamber in my XD, but will leave that ring of lead right at the end of the chamber and builds up to the point that after two magazines it won't fully chamber those same rounds. Size the same boolits to .452 or even .453 and no problems.

The forcing cone area is .451 I size .452 w a Lee push through sizer, Im not getting a ring at the forceing cone im getting slight lead streaking at the muzzle. I dont think the Darrs lube is makeing it to the muzzle, not getting a lube star.

[cumminsnut76]

From what I know this mix works real good in velocities below 1000fps approx and is real great for you hollow point pistol molds for expansion

[RobS]

The forcing cone area is .451 I size .452 w a Lee push through sizer, Im not getting a ring at the forceing cone im getting slight lead streaking at the muzzle. I dont think the Darrs lube is makeing it to the muzzle, not getting a lube star.

gunslinger20:

I was talking about buyobuyo's auto regarding the ring of lead at the end of his chamber. With your slight lead streaking only at the end of the barrel and assuming you are not pushing pressures/velocities past the alloy strength then it sounds more along the lines of lube failure to me.

[buyobuyo]

This can happen if your chamber is large enough to accept a loaded round with a boolit that is too large for the throat. Simply put, as the boolit leaves the case it can shave off a small amount of lead as it enters barrel. The ogive can also add to this problem if you lube on a RCBS/Lyman/Saeco. Many times the lube grooves will fill with lube without actually sizing the top drive band and/or ogive of the boolit. Tumble lube boolits can also have this problem unless you are using the push through dies to size.

Try sizing the entire boolit; make sure you are even sizing the ogive if it is the diameter of the boolit or size to a smaller diameter if you can. My example is: A .454 bullet will chamber in my XD, but will leave that ring of lead right at the end of the chamber and builds up to the point that after two magazines it won't fully chamber those same rounds. Size the same boolits to .452 or even .453 and no problems.

Rob, Thanks for the advice. I had a feeling the size might be an issue as well because my my match barrel slugs at .3550-.3555, and I sized my boolits to .358 with a Lyman lubrisizer (both bands are being sized). The rounds chamber, but it is a tight fit in the match barrel. They drop in/out of the stock barrel like any normal round. I just traded for a .356 die and have a .357 coming in the mail, so I'll be doing some additional testing before switching alloys.

I'll also be casting for my rifles (hunting and plinking), so I'll definitely give WD50/50 a try when I get around to casting for those. It would make life easier though if I don't have to switch between alloys, so I may still try 50/50 in my pistols, since both my pistol molds are Mihec HP moulds.

[Von Gruff]

For what its worth, I run 50/50 ww/Pb at 1500fps in my 7x57 and have also trialed it at 1900fps with out difficulty. All my boolits are air cooled.

Von Gruff.

[357maximum]

I woke up and cannot sleep so I am going to give you a little more than you asked or bargained for as I have felt the need to lay some of this out there to be read by all.....including those that will doubt my words. :groner:



IMHO 50/50 is the best "universal" alloy in existance. PERIOD

aircooled for pistols

waterdropped for 95% of my standard to HV rifle applications

I use an approximate 25/75 ww/pure for almost all my powder puff/catsneeze loads and some BP loads however.


Aircooled 50/50 with good fit and a gentle push up to speeds 12-1500 PLUS or so is no problem.

water quenched 50/50 with good fit in the right load and the same gentle push up to speed ........alot of our guns will not find the limit to WD 50/50 when everything is "right" .

If you do find the limit to WD50/50 a 5% addition of tin/nickel/copper bearing babbit will level things back out in the alloy and let it work even higher. I use 50/50 + 5% railroad babbit at full tilt pressure & velocity in my 14 twist 98 mauser 35whelen with the BRP 360-220 and I can quite literally shoot it all day long with no accuracy degradation. I have actually backed off my loads due to meat damage and bad shoulder concerns. The barrel heat is the only issue I have with my load now and the reason I normally switch to another toy while it cools down. Ask Babore how I mistreat this gun and his skin. :holysheep This tweaked version will do almost all anyone would ever want. PERIOD


The gentle liftoff and 50/50 "system" works really well if you are willing to pay attention and learn.........asking the right questions to the right person is a big step in this ultimate performance scenario. Grasping only bits and pieces of the High Velocity System will not get you there. 45 2.1 is the one that led me down the yellow brick road with 50/50 and HV and he will help you too if you are willing to pm him, do the work and put up with his "different" "method" of teaching. ;)

I run waterquenched 50/50 almost exclusively for mid level to top end loads in most all of my rifles and singleshot pistols....with M.O.A +/- accuracy. Dutch4122 has been doing simply crazy things with 50/50 in several as issued milsurps with astounding accuracy and plenty of hurt to the shoulder end. Admittidly powder selection and boolit fit were the biggest part of his adventure however alloy was a distant 3rd.

Alot of what gets reported as "light leading" with pure wheelweight is not leading at all...it is merely antimony wash from the tin/lead/antimony mix being out of balance for the requirements high velocity or poor fit puts on the boolit...this will harm ultimate HV accuracy sooner than later as it accumulates. The addition of pure lead as in the 50/50 mix not only minimizes or stops this it.... it improves accuracy as well. It is a tough yet mallable alloy that when launched properly will do almost all we ever need. NOTICE I did not say HARDER alloy. My bores will look the same whether 2 shots or 200 shots are taken. Plus there is still enough mallability to do what it needs to do when it finds meat. 50/50 and the right lube in a well balance load will actually start removing preexisting antimony wash inside of 20 shots normally.

The closest I have had to a "failure" with this system is with the .223 in a shallow grooved H&R. I had great accuracy for 20 shots but the powder I needed to make full tilt would cause some ash fouling and degrade accuracy. 1 pass of a dry patch every 20 rounds fixes this issue though.

When you are nearing the upper ragged edge of cast shooting alot of things need to be exactly right .....the right lube has a role....the right powder for your barrel length /case volume/ boolit weight requirements is a huge part.....exact boolit fit is another GIANT part...and the right alloy is a big part of the equation. I hate to sound like a snakeoil salesman but 50/50 ac or wd'ed can help fix alot of everyday maladies that we all face when we start treating cast boolits more like them copper clad heathen boolits when used in conjunction with good loads and consistent loading practices.

In the spirit of full disclosure:
My CastFaaaaaast education has went something like this. This is 100% from my point of view btw.

It has been one grumpy no sense of humor engineer with alot of experience laying a solid foundation for future building:smile:, an anal retentive mould maker/experimenter/accuracy hound making moulds to create boolits that exactly fit the gun while sharing his ideas, and a good friend that is not afraid to try EVERYTHING in search of a "fools quest" that he licked. I have actually done very little of the work myself...I just paid attention to what they've done and benefitted from it big time. Who says cheaters never prosper.:p

[gunslinger20]

I woke up and cannot sleep so I am going to give you a little more than you asked or bargained for as I have felt the need to lay some of this out there to be read by all.....including those that will doubt my words. :groner:


IMHO 50/50 is the best "universal" alloy in existance. PERIOD

aircooled for pistols

waterdropped for 95% of my standard to HV rifle applications

I use an approximate 25/75 ww/pure for almost all my powder puff/catsneeze loads and some BP loads however.


Aircooled 50/50 with good fit and a gentle push up to speeds 12-1500 PLUS or so is no problem.

water quenched 50/50 with good fit in the right load and the same gentle push up to speed ........alot of our guns will not find the limit to WD 50/50 when everything is "right" .

If you do find the limit to WD50/50 a 5% addition of tin/nickel/copper bearing babbit will level things back out in the alloy and let it work even higher. I use 50/50 + 5% railroad babbit at full tilt pressure & velocity in my 14 twist 98 mauser 35whelen with the BRP 360-220 and I can quite literally shoot it all day long with no accuracy degradation. I have actually backed off my loads due to meat damage and bad shoulder concerns. The barrel heat is the only issue I have with my load now and the reason I normally switch to another toy while it cools down. Ask Babore how I mistreat this gun and his skin. :holysheep This tweaked version will do almost all anyone would ever want. PERIOD


The gentle liftoff and 50/50 "system" works really well if you are willing to pay attention and learn.........asking the right questions to the right person is a big step in this ultimate performance scenario. Grasping only bits and pieces of the High Velocity System will not get you there. 45 2.1 is the one that led me down the yellow brick road with 50/50 and HV and he will help you too if you are willing to pm him, do the work and put up with his "different" "method" of teaching. ;)

I run waterquenched 50/50 almost exclusively for mid level to top end loads in most all of my rifles and singleshot pistols....with M.O.A +/- accuracy. Dutch4122 has been doing simply crazy things with 50/50 in several as issued milsurps with astounding accuracy and plenty of hurt to the shoulder end. Admittidly powder selection and boolit fit were the biggest part of his adventure however alloy was a distant 3rd.

Alot of what gets reported as "light leading" with pure wheelweight is not leading at all...it is merely antimony wash from the tin/lead/antimony mix being out of balance for the requirements high velocity or poor fit puts on the boolit...this will harm ultimate HV accuracy sooner than later as it accumulates. The addition of pure lead as in the 50/50 mix not only minimizes or stops this it.... it improves accuracy as well. It is a tough yet mallable alloy that when launched properly will do almost all we ever need. NOTICE I did not say HARDER alloy. My bores will look the same whether 2 shots or 200 shots are taken. Plus there is still enough mallability to do what it needs to do when it finds meat. 50/50 and the right lube in a well balance load will actually start removing preexisting antimony wash inside of 20 shots normally.

The closest I have had to a "failure" with this system is with the .223 in a shallow grooved H&R. I had great accuracy for 20 shots but the powder I needed to make full tilt would cause some ash fouling and degrade accuracy. 1 pass of a dry patch every 20 rounds fixes this issue though.

When you are nearing the upper ragged edge of cast shooting alot of things need to be exactly right .....the right lube has a role....the right powder for your barrel length /case volume/ boolit weight requirements is a huge part.....exact boolit fit is another GIANT part...and the right alloy is a big part of the equation. I hate to sound like a snakeoil salesman but 50/50 ac or wd'ed can help fix alot of everyday maladies that we all face when we start treating cast boolits more like them copper clad heathen boolits when used in conjunction with good loads and consistent loading practices.

In the spirit of full disclosure:
My CastFaaaaaast education has went something like this. This is 100% from my point of view btw.

It has been one grumpy no sense of humor engineer with alot of experience laying a solid foundation for future building:smile:, an anal retentive mould maker/experimenter/accuracy hound making moulds to create boolits that exactly fit the gun while sharing his ideas, and a good friend that is not afraid to try EVERYTHING in search of a "fools quest" that he licked. I have actually done very little of the work myself...I just paid attention to what they've done and benefitted from it big time. Who says cheaters never prosper.:p

Wow 357, sorry you couldnt sleep I have the same problem but im going to print the above info as I think you have let us in on some very usefull data.
Thanks[smilie=s:

[crabo]

I used to use WD WW in my 45/70 with a plain based boolit. I went to 50/50 and air cooled, and the groups shrunk. I added filler and they shrunk more. No leading at 14-1500 fps.

Good post 357max

[357maximum]

I used to use WD WW in my 45/70 with a plain based boolit. I went to 50/50 and air cooled, and the groups shrunk. I added filler and they shrunk more. No leading at 14-1500 fps.

Good post 357max

You changed your boolits response to match the "launch" and things improved. The filler is a good way to protect the boolit and change the way it responds to the launch sequence. Fillers are not for everyone but is another tool in the bag O' tricks.

Matching the alloy to respond to the launch or changing the launch to match the alloy is never a bad thing. Finding exactly what you need to do in order to "MATCH" them little bundles of lead to the "LAUNCH" requirements can be finicky sometimes but it sure is nice when you find it eh? Boolit size/boolit fit/ and alloy composition are normally very critical aspects of ultimate accuracy.

Too hard and udersized boolits have inspired some serious mistruths about our hobby. Undersized boolit moulds along with linotype like thinkings keep this thinking in a continuous state of regurgitation unfortunately.

If you chopped 3 inches off your barrel you would likely have to start all over in powder selection to match your alloy.

The flyfisherman among us will tell you........YOU HAVE TO MATCH THE HATCH.:mrgreen: The master casters among us will tell you that "IF IT DON'T FIT IT AIN'T WORTH $&!&. Both are correct yet incomplete statements.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I also use the 50-50 blend for alot of my casting / shooting enjoyment.
I have a very kind truck tire dealer who gives me as much WW as I nedd for exchange of some .431 boolits he uses to pop corn crunchers. So for a long time WW is all I shot.. until a feller turned up with a 5 gallon bucket full of PB (I needed some for RB) and we did a # for # swap. Then I had 100 #s of PB... so I thought lets try 50-50. Discovered it was a great revolver mix. Then the lever guns. then the SKS´s. Then I realised it was even great in my 375 Supermag GC 255 load for deer and coyotee.
Bottom line is for years now I start with 50-50 in mag revolvers and push it till it needs Water dropped then push it somemore. Lever guns the same.
In my muzzle loaders I shoot 25pb-75ww for practice. I do not see much accuracy diference.

[gunslinger20]

I cast a different alloy 50/50 ww/pb + 2oz sn per 10lbs alloy. Have not shot any of it yet

[white eagle]

great info
I like reading all of the things most have experienced
I am always willing to learn even if it takes me awhile to do it
glad you couldn't sleep

[357maximum]

I cast a different alloy 50/50 ww/pb + 2oz sn per 10lbs alloy. Have not shot any of it yet

I asked the magic 8ball and it said you will be happy when you do shoot some of that alloy. [smilie=s:

[gunslinger20]

I asked the magic 8ball and it said you will be happy when you do shoot some of that alloy. [smilie=s:

When the magic 8ball is on your side it has to go right.

[jwhite]

I too use 50/50 almost exclusivley these days, I started out using 50/50 just to conserve my wheel weight stash but began to see that it worked better than straight WW both in accuracy and expansion chararistics. I have driven water dropped 50/50 to 2200-2300fps with no trouble at all in both 35Whelen and a .348, much faster than conventional wisdom says you can. 50/50 boolits accounted for. Don't really ever see myself using anything else for an alloy, until I run out of WW. I have used WW 50/50 to take several deer and have always had excellent results. Hollowpoints also seem to work well using 50/50, they are a lot less to fracturing than straight WW.

JW

[jwhite]

Most recently been using the RD 190gr 35 caliber boolit cast out of 50/50, I air cooled some for use in a 357. handi rilfe and then water drop the rest for use in full power rifle loads. My nephew used a 35 remington driving the RD190 to 2100fps and the boolit worked great showing signs of expansion at the exit and I have used the same boolit HP'd at 2200fps with good results out of a 35 Whelen, though you have to be careful about how big you make the HP, I use a 3/16 countersink and with full speed loads just the pilot portion of the bit is sufficient to cause rapid expansion and if the HP cavity is made to full 3/16" diameter it becomes a varmit bullet, will come apart on a small pumkin, definitely not a deer bullet. When same bullet is air cooled and hp'd to full 3/16" using a counter sink bit it expands beautifully at 1000-1100fps, nice pleasant load to shoot in the .357 HandiRifle. 50/50 really makes for a versatile alloy, and is im my mind about the perfect deer hunting mixture of expansion/accuracy/ and velocity obtained.

JW

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I cast 50/50 for my Hollow point revolver loads.
after reading 357maximum's long and very informative post #18,
I'll be trying 50/50 for other applications.

I haven't cast much for rifle loads, and was thinking that if a gas check is used
then a softer alloy can only be a good thing...right ?

Antimony wash...first I've heard that...Good to know.
Jon

[Matt_G]

I cast 50/50 for my Hollow point revolver loads.
after reading 357maximum's long and very informative post #18,
I'll be trying 50/50 for other applications.
+1
You took the words right out of my mouth Jon B.

[357maximum]

I cast 50/50 for my Hollow point revolver loads.
after reading 357maximum's long and very informative post #18,
I'll be trying 50/50 for other applications.

I haven't cast much for rifle loads, and was thinking that if a gas check is used
then a softer alloy can only be a good thing...right ?

Antimony wash...first I've heard that...Good to know.
Jon

IMHO and sometimes I am alone with this opinion[smilie=f:.....If you are a fella that aims for the shoulder you have to be real picky about how big and deep the hollowpoint is with 50/50 even at 357mag velocities for deer. I need to break them down on one end of my place to STOP them DRT so I use a WFN boolit instead. Opinions and experiences will differ greatly on this but I have just about abandoned HP's for deer hunting for that reason and the fact that I am not a big fan of actually casting HP's.(too impatient and lazy)[smilie=l: I have several HP moulds I will not part with but them are for other critters and accuracy related reasons.............as always YMMV of course.

[gunslinger20]

Very informative, I have gotten a lot of good advice from evryone. Ill probably be useing 50/50 from now on.I also shoot wfn boolits in 45 colt and 44 mag. I usually shoot a lung shot, deer dont make it more than 40-50 yds< sorry for getting off topic>

[pls1911]

357 and Rob S have about said it all.... except:
water quench does enhance alloy hardness and expands use.
However, oven heat treating will push hardness to at east 20, but often to 25+, and still provide plastic flow upon impact instead of shattering like high antimony alloys.
Gas checks and 200o FPS in 30-30, 308, or 45-70 and NO leading.
Big medicine for pigs.

[lyktohunt]

It will become obvious that I am new to this I know what the WW stands for but what is PB.
I have some pure lead bars that I know are too soft to shoot in my 30-30 and 32-40 but I am hoping to use this in combination with maybe WW or water quenching or some combination to harden them enough to shoot up to around 1400fps.
I think this thread addresses this issue but some of the abreviations I am ignorant of.

[old turtle]

lyktohunt, Pb is the chemical symbol for lead. I use it as I mark my ingots L for linotype, W for lead and PB for lead. I have a 32-40 single shot in which I shoot straight WWs. You can play around with the mixtures as some times hard works and some times softer alloys work. I had one rifle which would only shoot WW boolits well.

[Matt_G]

I have some pure lead bars that I know are too soft to shoot in my 30-30 and 32-40 but I am hoping to use this in combination with maybe WW or water quenching or some combination to harden them enough to shoot up to around 1400fps.

Like old turtle said, Pb is lead. A few other chemical symbols you will see around here are:
Sn - Tin.
Sb - Antimony
Zn - Zinc
As - Arsenic
Cu - Copper

By the way, if those bars are indeed pure lead, don't bother water dropping the boolits. They won't harden at all. You need some antimony in them in order to gain hardness via heat treating.

[lyktohunt]

Like old turtle said, Pb is lead. A few other chemical symbols you will see around here are:
Sn - Tin.
Sb - Antimony
Zn - Zinc
As - Arsenic
Cu - Copper

By the way, if those bars are indeed pure lead, don't bother water dropping the boolits. They won't harden at all. You need some antimony in them in order to gain hardness via heat treating.

Thanks guys ,so I guess mixing PB and WW 50/50 is my best bet to be able to use the lead up and have it hard enough to shoot in rifles.
Would I be able to shoot pure lead in my 45 colt revolvers at about 800 fps?

[Wireman134]

50/50 water drops to Bhn 15

[BABore]

50/50 water drops to Bhn 15

That depends on your WW's as they vary acrossed the US. What both 357Max and myself were instructed on for a 50/50 WW-Pb alloy was that it was to be 9-10 bhn air cooled and 20-22 bhn when water dropped or oven heat treated. Note: if your WD and OHT hardness differ or vary, it is casting technique and mucking about that is the cause. I have a goodly percentage of truck weight in my WW's and can mix a true 50% with my Pb to come out with the bhn's mentioned above. You may have to adjust your WW ratio to get the same mileage. I was able to mix 35% WW and 65% Pb and water drop them for a 16 bhn hardness. Now, there is nothing wrong with running a 15 bhn max hardness unless you start to push things hard. HV rifle loads will need that extra 5-7 bhn at times.

[Wireman134]

Exactly, taking the average today's clip on WW's with a Sb of approx. 3%, not those heavy duty old school WW's that had like 5-6% Sb 30+ years ago. Will give you approx. 15 Bhn. 1422x15= 21,000 psi.

Bullet BHN / "Minimum" Chamber Pressure For Lead Alloys (PSI)
The formula (from the pages of HandLoader Magazine) to determine at what pressure an alloy of given BHN will obturate the base of the bullet and seal the bore. If the bullet is too hard to obturate, gas cutting usually occurs on the base band on the non-driving side of the rifling and barrel leading is likely. Simply multiply the alloy BHN by 1,422.
Example: Alloy BHN of 12 multiplied by 1422 = 17,064. An alloy of 12 BHN should be used with a load that develops a "minimum" of 17,000 psi. Need more info on minimum / maximum alloy BHN? These Glen E. Fryxell articles explain alloy BHN in easy to understand language.

[BABore]

Yes, nice charts and info, but like tits on a boar hog. Myself and others regularly shoot 22 bhn 50/50 alloy at over 50 kpsi with accuracy. Had I went by the book I should be using a 35 bhn boolit. Before I was schooled on the benefits of using a 50/50 alloy I was using a much harder boolit with miserable results. Dropping the hardness 8-10 bhn allowed me to get where I wanted. It wasn't just about the hardness I was using, but the antimony content. Antimony tends to migrate to the boolits exterior. This will foul the bbl with a grey wash at high velocity and pressure and kill accuracy after a few shots. Lowering the antimony by diluting it with Pb reduced the fouling.

I also use air cooled 50/50 at 9-10 bhn in several handguns that operate over 40 kpsi. Chart reading would tell me that I need a 28 bhn boolit. I tried just that and these guns didn't much care for it. Bottom line is that the gun will tell you what it wants for a hardness. You do yourself and the gun a disservice by not trying the full spectrum of hardness.

[*Paladin*]

50/50 is my preferred alloy for my .45's. Both .45 Colt and ACP, all air cooled, lubed with LLA and sized to .452. Great accuracy and no leading. I have a Lee 358-158-RF on it's way and will soon be experimenting with 50/50 in .38 Spl (which I have no doubt it will work well in) and .357 Mag as well. Hopefully this alloy will work well in .357, but the velocity has me a bit concerned. By the way, I don't add any tin to it. Once the mold is up to temp, I get good fill out, so I haven't bothered with adding tin...

[Wireman134]

Yes, nice charts and info, but like tits on a boar hog. Myself and others regularly shoot 22 bhn 50/50 alloy at over 50 kpsi with accuracy. Had I went by the book I should be using a 35 bhn boolit. Before I was schooled on the benefits of using a 50/50 alloy I was using a much harder boolit with miserable results. Dropping the hardness 8-10 bhn allowed me to get where I wanted. It wasn't just about the hardness I was using, but the antimony content. Antimony tends to migrate to the boolits exterior. This will foul the bbl with a grey wash at high velocity and pressure and kill accuracy after a few shots. Lowering the antimony by diluting it with Pb reduced the fouling.

I also use air cooled 50/50 at 9-10 bhn in several handguns that operate over 40 kpsi. Chart reading would tell me that I need a 28 bhn boolit. I tried just that and these guns didn't much care for it. Bottom line is that the gun will tell you what it wants for a hardness. You do yourself and the gun a disservice by not trying the full spectrum of hardness.

Overly hard boolit's are unnecessary if boolit is sized to your bore. You contradict your self. "Now, there is nothing wrong with running a 15 bhn max hardness unless you start to push things hard. HV rifle loads will need that extra 5-7 bhn at times". Then you push things hard and use a softer boolit than recomended and you say. "Myself and others regularly shoot 22 bhn 50/50 alloy at over 50 kpsi with accuracy. Had I went by the book I should be using a 35 bhn boolit. Before I was schooled on the benefits of using a 50/50 alloy I was using a much harder boolit with miserable results. Dropping the hardness 8-10 bhn allowed me to get where I wanted". Bottom line is the proper sized boolit does not need to be so hard.

[BABore]

No, I didn't contradict myself. I said "at times" you need that extra 5-7 bhn. It all depends on the gun's wants. The point I was trying to make was that the "book" recommended hardness is overdone. You typically don't need anywheres near that hardness. We are basically on the same page here. I was originally pointing out that the blanket term 50/50 WW-Pb needed some clarity as WW's vary so much. Since 357Maximum did the major (after his bedtime) writeup, I felt the alloy should have a bhn attached so others could duplicate things. We both shoot the same alloy and learned of it's benefits several years back from the same source.

One point of disagreement is the boolit size. Throats and chamber necks have to be considered beyond the normal "thousandths or so" over groove. I prefer to size to the throat and fired case ID first. When using a softer alloy, you don't have the luxury of ignoring any slop. Pressure can upset the boolit to fill void and do so unevenly. Harder alloys can buy you a little help, but come nowhere close to a jacketed bullet.

[Wireman134]

No, I didn't contradict myself. I said "at times" you need that extra 5-7 bhn. It all depends on the gun's wants. The point I was trying to make was that the "book" recommended hardness is overdone. You typically don't need anywheres near that hardness. We are basically on the same page here. I was originally pointing out that the blanket term 50/50 WW-Pb needed some clarity as WW's vary so much. Since 357Maximum did the major (after his bedtime) writeup, I felt the alloy should have a bhn attached so others could duplicate things. We both shoot the same alloy and learned of it's benefits several years back from the same source.

One point of disagreement is the boolit size. Throats and chamber necks have to be considered beyond the normal "thousandths or so" over groove. I prefer to size to the throat and fired case ID first. When using a softer alloy, you don't have the luxury of ignoring any slop. Pressure can upset the boolit to fill void and do so unevenly. Harder alloys can buy you a little help, but come nowhere close to a jacketed bullet.


Agreed, you are a wealth of knowledge...:drinks::drinks:

[pls1911]

50-50 works fine in just about anything to 1800-2000 fps if heat treated and Gas Checked.