Biggest, Heaviest Boolit for the .30-06

[armed_partisan]

Okay, I've done a few searches, and I haven't found a thread that really answers this question: What is the best heavy weight bullet for use in the .30-06? What do you guys use? Considering the .30-03 used a 220 grain Round Nosed bullet, I figure it has to be something around that weight. I would like to make a full powered load for .30-06 that doesn't lead, and the best way I can think to do that while utilizing the full potential of the .30-06 case is with the heaviest bullet that will fit into a standard long action 700.

[excess650]

So far, the heaviest I've used is the Saeco #301 which weighs 200gr w/GC and lube w/my alloy. I also have the 311644 (200gr), 311299 (205gr), 311679 (210gr) all of which can be seated with the GC IN the neck in my 30-06s.

The 311284 seems to be the most commonly available heavy 30. They should weigh in the 215-220gr range w/GC and lube. While I do have the mold, I haven't really taken the time to experiment with it.

There were Lyman or Ideal designs up to about 250gr, but good luck locating one. You could seat some dummies to find your magazine and extractor/ejector limits, length and diameter of throat, etc, and design your own heavyweight on Mountain Molds online software. Be sure that a magazine length loaded round will feed from that magazine with your choice of meplat prior to spending the $ for a custom mold.

I saw that there is a group buy, or at least a discussion about a 247gr 300 Whisper boolit. You might want to check it out to see if it might work for you.

[Ben]

I have a 311290 with lube and g/c that goes 222 grs. A fine bullet.

Ben

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/311290%20Hollow%20Pointed/PICT0009b.jpg

[madsenshooter]

Here's a big one: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=102895

[excess650]

For sure that 247gr is "the big one", but how well is it going to group from a 1-10" 30-06? The 300 Whisper guys don't seem to care as they seem to want it to tumble after impact. I guess my question is at what velocity range will it be stable, or is it just too long to be stable from a 1-10" twist? Mountain Molds software suggests a 1-8" twist for a projectile of that length and weight.:holysheep

[madsenshooter]

From what I'm reading towards the end of the thread, some guys have calculated it and came up with definite maybe. I'm not interested in subsonic, so 1/10 up around 1600fps should be fine. I just want a caseful of powder (WC860) and a neck full of lead in the Krag. Actually I just want to let some of the guys who complain about my "pistol loads" when I shoot my Krag in their matches, to shoot a few of the 250's. With the 06's increased capacity over the Krag, you'd be able to get more velocity out of it. Should be stable then. In theory, or it may become another cruise missile type bullet!

[armed_partisan]

I was interested in that 247grn whisper load, but I decided against it, since it wasn't really intended for the 06 and it would make my cartridge OAL 3.369"! Factory OAL for 06 is about 3.013", so that's a big deal. I'm sure it would work as a single loaded round, but it probably wouldn't feed from a magazine. I also have a Qwik-Clip detachable magazine conversion on my Rem 700, which probably means it has to be even shorter than usual.

I've got a .300 Win Mag A-Bolt up in NC that's at my buddy's place, and I never thought about using it to shoot cast, but if I could get 250grn boolits that would fit, that would be another story!

[nanuk]

what velocity ceiling do you see for that boolit?

[USSR]

I was interested in that 247grn whisper load, but I decided against it, since it wasn't really intended for the 06 and it would make my cartridge OAL 3.369"! Factory OAL for 06 is about 3.013", so that's a big deal.

Huh? Most .30-06 ammo has an OAL of 3.320" to 3.340", not 3.013", unless you're using lighter than 150 grain bullets.

Don

[armed_partisan]

"Huh? Most .30-06 ammo has an OAL of 3.320" to 3.340", not 3.013", unless you're using lighter than 150 grain bullets."

Oops! Looking at the wrong number on Quickload. Maybe I should buy one and try it...
My main concern was bullet stability, but running the numbers here:
http://kwk.us/twist.html
...it calculates that the bullet should be stable in a 1/10 twist all the way down to 1550 FPS, and I plan on launching it a whole lot fast than that. My goal would be about 2400 FPS.
Well, thank you all for your input.

[rockrat]

So far in a couple of O3A3's and a 308 Handi rifle, the 311284 has performed very well. I also have a Hoch mould that casts a 220gr boolit that works well.

[nanuk]

2400 with a 220gr is pretty much the max in a '06?

with that 250gr, could one expect to reach 2000?

[armed_partisan]

I'm just running numbers on Quickload and the guesstimate seems like it's possible.

[USSR]

armed_partisan,

Any chance I could get you to run that 247gr bullet in .30-06 thru QuickLoad and see how much 2400 powder is needed to run it in the neighborhood of 1800fps? Right now I'm thinking about 18-19 grains.

Don

[armed_partisan]

According to Quickload, using a 22" Barrel, you'd need 24.8 Grains of 2400 to make 2802 FPS. That's 47.6% case capacity and 100% powder burn before the bullet exits the muzzle. Should be around 40728 PSI Chamber Pressure.

[USSR]

According to Quickload, using a 22" Barrel, you'd need 24.8 Grains of 2400 to make 2802 FPS. That's 47.6% case capacity and 100% powder burn before the bullet exits the muzzle. Should be around 40728 PSI Chamber Pressure.

Surely you mean 1802 FPS?

Don

[madsenshooter]

Surely you mean 1802 FPS?

Don

That's what my internal computer says.

[armed_partisan]

Surely you mean 1802 FPS?

Don

Whoops! My bad. Of course that's what I meant.

[405]

Ben, gotta love those "waste of paper" targets. The only mystery is why no follow up discussion about that fine hole hole group? :roll: erhaa.... maybe I know the answer.

[frank505]

I love the 240 grain Woodleigh in my 06's. 55 grains of 4831 in a LC 69 case, WLR primer does 2300 from the 20". The 247 grain bullet is an interesting one, may be a bit long to function through the magazine though. I have shot quite a few 311284's with a case full of WC 860 and like the load for practice.

[frank505]

The 240 grain semi spitzer is 1.428 long and shoots well. It also kills very well even from a 30/06. The cast bullet is 1.335 so the bullet will be stable at the velocity I want to attain. A case full of WC 860 should be a good load and more accurate than the 311284 as lots less bullet is below the case neck. The .875 of bullet sticking out of the case neck is about the same as M2 ball.

[Ben]

405 :

Can you " De-Code " the following for all of us :

Ben, gotta love those "waste of paper" targets. The only mystery is why no follow up discussion about that fine hole hole group? erhaa.... maybe I know the answer.

[405]

Ben,
I'd guess those fine groups were ignored for two reasons- Bullet wasn't heavy enough nor the load fast enough. If they weren't near 250 grains traveling at 2600 fps they didn't "qualify". All about mo-powr. Accuracy gets little notice. Little bitty one hole groups in such a large pice of paper still seems like waste of paper to me ;)

[Ben]

OK.....makes sense now...............

Thanks,
Ben

[CWME]

I have a 311290 with lube and g/c that goes 222 grs. A fine bullet.

Ben

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/311290%20Hollow%20Pointed/PICT0009b.jpg

Your Picture is getting me excited. I ordered a Mcgowen 308 win barrel for my Savage F-Class yesterday. It's intended as a cast only barrel. Hope I can get groups like yours out of it. It is a pure tack driver with the Mcgowen 6BR barrel. 6mm J bullets are too expensive to punch paper with my current budget. It was fun but back to cast.

Testing all of my 30 cal boolits with the new setup should keep me busy for the rest of the winter and all summer!

[Marlin Junky]

Well, I just got around to seeing it (your target) for the first time and am very impressed, especially since it came from a Ruger. Have you had similar success with an '06 at 1800-2000 fps?... with any boolit?

MJ

[turbo1889]

IME for most 30-06 cast boolit loads 220gr. boolit weight with a fairly blunt nose is the safe maximum weight that one can be almost completely sure will stabilize and fly nice and straight in most common barrels with conventional twist rates. Try to go heavier then that or get a pointy spitzer like nose and it becomes a might work or might not work you have to try and see situation.

For that reason my next custom mold I buy for my 30 calibers (non-fat) is going to be a custom 220gr. (maximizing the weight while maintaining fairly universal application) from Accurate Molds that is basically a second generation of the hybrid designs I have been working with using both convention and tumble lube grooves with the lower TL grooves set up to double as crimp grooves and the upper TL grooves set up to function as REAL (Rifling Engraved At Loading) micro bands like a whole bunch of NEI style DD rings. Here is how it looks so far on the drawing board:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5176/5437753130_c92c83c91d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/54455625@N04/5437753130/)

[excess650]

turbo1889,
Your design is SHORT for its weight, and should work fine, and LLA may be adequate. My favorite 30cal at this point is the Saeco #301, and its a single lube groove type.

[turbo1889]

Yah, as I said stubby shaped nose allows for more weight. Currently my best mold in this size is an old 311299 that someone modified with a drill bit and extended the bore riding nose and made it longer with a drill bit tip shaped nose. It drops right about 225 grains with WW plus a dash of tin. The resulting nose shape causes feeding problems though.

Not just LLA for lube on my hybrid designs. Conventionally lubed and sized with a lubra-sizer to put lube in the conventional lube grooves on the base, then the nose gets dipped in tumble lube mix (I use 3/1 ratio JPW/X-lox) after it has been loaded in the cartridge. That way I don't get my boolit seating die all goobered up either.

[sledgehammer]

I shoot a '52, Rem 721 in '06. It took me over 10 years to find a good boolit load for the old girl, but I finally did.
Lee 200, (actual wt, 220) over 13.9gr of SR 7625, seated .250" into the riflings. It zeros at 100yd, but is very consistent to 450. Kentucky elevation req'd.... My rifle does not like anything lighter for a bullet. 1/10 twist bbl. No chrono, velocity unknown.

[sledgehammer]

Sorry! My alloy is ww, +2% tin, sized .310", homemade lube.

[Merlin43]

My old Howa .30-'06 seems to like the Lyman 311284. Nominal 220gr, turns about 217 with my 92/2/6 alloy. Chrono' shows 1850 over 27gr IMR 4227, 2300 over 42.5gr IMR 3031, and 2490 over 56gr IMR IMR 4831. All hit "minute of critter" to my satisfaction at Texas brush country yardage. The barrel is Ultra_Coat finished.

Reading this thread may be the dynamite I need under me to get out and fire for group ... bin sittin' on the ol' duff all winter! :D

[Throwback]

311284 and some similar custom molds are about the best it gets for heavy bullets in the '06. The problem is generally the rifle's throat more than the length of the mag. Even with the 311284 one must often manage the bullet nose diameter to avoid having to seat the bullet deeper in the case. The longer bullets are more finicky with the support they get from the barrel as they travel and they are more likely to get out of shape if everything is not right. I love the 284 but it is a fussy bullet compared to others.

[Ben]

turbo1889 :

Do you plan to produce the mold without a g/c shank as seen in your illustration ? If so, is there a reason for the lack of a g/c shank ?

[Ben]

Well, I just got around to seeing it (your target) for the first time and am very impressed, especially since it came from a Ruger. Have you had similar success with an '06 at 1800-2000 fps?... with any boolit?

MJ


No , not that tight at 2,000 fps. , but close to it, plenty tight enough to hunt with the load........................

1,800 and less .....YES !

[303Guy]

1,800 and less .....YES ! I'm pretty sure I was driving my 225 grainers to nearly 1800fps in my 303 Brit with an accuracy no worse than the shake caused by my heartbeat (bad rest). Can't see a problem with that kind of velocity and recoil is a mere shove. Never did pursue that load. It didn't fit the mag.

Ben's group is something to take note of!:drinks:

[koehn,jim]

I currently use a 314299 sized to fit with 4895 for propellant. But i am in for the 311365 grp buy they should run about 200-210 gr. What is the rate of twist for your barrell and bore diam. that should be the determining factor for bullet selection. There are far more savvy posters on here but that is what I look at before selecting a boolit. Bigger is not always more accurate.

[turbo1889]

turbo1889 :

Do you plan to produce the mold without a g/c shank as seen in your illustration ? If so, is there a reason for the lack of a g/c shank ?


I plan to order a double cavity mold with one cavity being a PB and the other cavity being a GC with the GC shank reducing the length of the base band so both boolits are the same length.

I have had excellent results with PB boolits in rifles. In fact, in many cases I see more need for a GC for handgun boolits. The larger case capacity and longer barrels of most rifles allows the use of large charges of slow burning powders usually with both an ignition booster charge and a granular buffer filler.

I've been doing a lot of work with several 7.62x54R and 303-brit. guns with a 0.315" diameter 180 grain plain base boolit constructed along the same lines. I'm using a couple grains of R-7 in the bottom of the case directly over the primer as an ignition booster followed by an almost full case of military surplus 50-BMG ball powder (extremely slow burning) and then topping that off with about 0.3cc of COW under the plain base boolit the whole thing being a compressed load and its shooting as good as I can hold out to 100 yards with iron sights and one of the 7.62x54R guns has an original WWII era Soviet sniper scope mounted on top of it and I've been shooting out to the 300 yard line with it.

[JDL]

turbo, that boolit looks very similar to Loverin's 311407 when ran into a co-axial die. I did some a while back but, haven't shot them yet.

Ben, a tip of the hat to you sir, that's some fine shooting! I suppose the GC was far below the shoulder in a .308?
JDL

[roosterf106]

A little note of caution before you go running off and spending good money on a long-bullet mold.
I have a host of 1903's and an old Eddystone Enfield (all 30-06), as well as a 30-40...all of which use the Lyman 311284 (mine cast out to 215 grains).
With the bullet seated as far down in the neck as I can get it, without the gascheck going below the base of the neck (which ruins accuracy), all the 3 guns barely allow the nose of the bullet in the chamber and all have rifling engraved on the bullet nose when chambered. In other words, any more length to the bullet, and the chambering will seat the bullet further into the case, thus destroying accuracy. I doubt the target, the deer, or the shooter will notice the difference between a 215 grainer and a 247 grainer.

Best wishes,

rooster