Increase case capicity of 40 S&W 9% by....

[BT Sniper]

...... depriming the bullet :razz:

Yep the primmer pocket of a 9mm jacket can hold .7 grains of AA#7 powder. I did some reloading and shooting yesterday and I continue to learn. I have not tried primerless bullets yet but the theory looks good. Thoughts?

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/2011-1-26009.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/2011-1-26010.jpg

BT

[Ford SD]

To be safe i think you should stick to the primer in.

Until some one can first prove the math that it is safe.
added area x pressure, plus the pressure of the normal primer in round

with no primer there is the increased chance of having the lead part only go down the barrel, and possibility of leaving the jacket(9mm case) in the barrel

primer pocket might act like a 38 HBWC (Hollow base wad cutter) Where they put warnings in the data books--- because the extra pressure of a fast round expands the base and cause big problems
and the 40S&W is a high pressure round and the increased area of the primer pocket might be high enough to expand the base to act like the HBWC and cause big problems

Shooting the round with the primer removed might also cause extra wear on the barrel

[BT Sniper]

The title was more or less a play with words.

The problem I had with this bullet and the AA#7 powder was that I hit the 100% full case capisity before max published load data. The .7 grains was what I actually had to decress from max because of length of my bullet. I am pretty sure of my reloading practices. I just thought it was interesting to see what little space there is in the case with a large bullet and how the primmer pocket is almost 10% the size of that space.

Yeah, I don't know what kind of difference the same charge of powder would have on a bullet with, or without the primmer in place. I do know one way to find out :)


BT

[MIBULLETS]

I don't think you will see any difference. I have shot rifle bullets made from cases without the primer. I couldn't see a bit of difference.

[sargenv]

In my case.. I simply do one thing.. load long.. but unless you are utilizing a S&W 610 or a 1911, loading long is likely not an option.. the other option is to make shorter bullets.. that's where the chop saw and labor comes in handy.. though I will continue to make the longer bullets since I don't have a need for the shorter loaded rounds..

[BT Sniper]

I can fit X amount of powder in a case with the spent primmer in the jacket. I can fit X plus .7 grains without it. The senerio is with this big long bullet and slow powder I run out of case capicity before max pressure (so I think). Yes I could get a different powder but I am trying to get the most out of a carbine length barrel too. I still find it kind of interesting and enjoy the feed back and ideas from you guys.

In the 40 S&W case .7 grains can be like 10% of the case capicity. That extra powder I would think could make a big difference either presure wise, FPS wise or both.

Pretty sure if I fit .7 grain more grains of bluedot powder in the case it will make a heck of a difference in the little 40 carbine.

[BT Sniper]

Evening sargenv,

I don't think I can load long but I'll look into it for sure. Yep shorter bullets is the fix. I just threw out the idea as food for thought.

One thing I noticed now after spending so much time trying to utilize the bullet making process is that I can make the bullets faster then I can load them. May be time for a progressive press :)

BT

[wiljen]

Seems to me you would gain more space by milling about 2/3 or the base of the case off so it was level with the bottom of the primer pocket. Could that not be done with a belt sander or grinder pretty quickly?

[JSnover]

With the right lathe setup you could spin those bases down in a few seconds and have nice square, consistent jackets, nothing left but the flash hole.

[sargenv]

When loading bigger bullets and most in general in a semi auto, I try to load ammo to about .002"-.003" under magazine length and then check to make sure they chamber ok. I load my Sig ammo to 1.140" since the magazine can accept it and the gun will chamber it. As a rule, I don't load any bullets over 180 gr in a flat point configuration.. just not enough internal room for me. These bullets are gun specific, and if I owned a pistol with a shorter chamber, I'd have to load specifically for that one. I like having options.. and the shorter stuff can always load into the other two types if need be.

Turning cases on a lathe just seems like a lot of extra work, but if that's the only solution, then I guess it's an option.. after having made 4k+ and no need for a shorter bullet, I'll stick to what I do.. if I just wanted a few hundred and that's all I'd fire, then the lathe trick would likely be ok.

The removal of the primer sounds like an idea worth pursuing.. and a progressive press would definitely help in the endeavor of jacket prep. I use a progressive to seat the cores before swaging them.. I can crank out about 1200 rounds per hour in that fashion since unlike loading ammo, I don't need to stop and fill the powder or primer stations.. the only thing I need to feed is the case feeder and then the cores when I run the press.

For BT's idea, you would deprime on 1, slight flare to case mouth on station 2 or 3, seat core on 4, crimp on 5. This is on a Dillon 650. As it is, I do everything except the deprime on 1.

[JSnover]

Turning cases on a lathe just seems like a lot of extra work, but if that's the only solution, then I guess it's an option.. after having made 4k+ and no need for a shorter bullet, I'll stick to what I do.. if I just wanted a few hundred and that's all I'd fire, then the lathe trick would likely be ok.
Well, I'm not a swager so there's plenty I don't know about it. My thought was to use a collet chuck and a stop to simplify that job but you're right. More than a couple hundred would be all I'd want to do. My wrists aren't getting any younger.

[Red River Rick]

The rim left on the cases probably won't have enough noticable effect on them at short ranges. But, if your going to swage rifle bullets, that rim just induces drag. So accuracy will suffer.

RRR

[runfiverun]

just de-prime and flip the primer cup over and re-seat you then get back about .6 gr more room.
that #7 will fill the void.
gained a bit doing this with some 315 gr 44 boillets from the 40 brass.
i also flat nosed them to seat out a bit further, as i needed speed to stabilize them better.

[MakeMineA10mm]

I'm curious how/when you got the primer out, BT? The two bullets I made without primers (on accident-the primers fell out during annealing and I didn't notice til after the bullets were made), both had a large amount of lead extrude into the primer pocket. Your sample here has none of that going on... Could it be a difference between the 40 and 44 dies?

[BT Sniper]

Difference between wheel weight alloy and soft lead. Soft lead "flows" easier, filling up more of the primmer pocket.

I havn't taken any primers out yet, it falls out when you cut the bullet in half as pictured above :) This was a dummy round I cut in half.

BT

[runfiverun]

you can put a smear of water in the bottom of the case and it will de-prime when swaging too.