Lyman 311291 Unusable in My Winchester 30-30

[Omnivore]

I've seen several glowing recommendations for the Lyman 311291 boolit in the 30-30, and so I ordered the mold. Well, trying a dummy round, the bullet nose is hitting the rifling and the bullet is seated so far into the case that the forward drive band is completely inside the case neck, with the lead still touching the rifling. I assume this is a total no-go situation unless I either ream the throat (which I won't do) or reshape the bullet (which I won't do - I'd rather buy a different mold).

Anyone else have this issue with a late Win. '94? My Winchester’s serial number is 6,219,XXX. This "Wrangler" carbine was purchased new in the 1990s. The Speer manual #13 alludes to short throats in some Winchesters also.

I wrote Lyman to ask whether they think the 311041 will work, but looking at their illustrations, I am not optimistic. The '041 appears to be longer in front of the crimping groove, with a more tapered, but still quite fat, ogive. It looks more to me like a spitzer or spire shape round is all that'll work in there, like the one Lee makes for the SKS carbine.

[Char-Gar]

Hummm.. Sound like you have a barrel throat that is way short. I have never know a Winchester 94 to do that, but they have been made for many years and I suppose there have been variations.

I have a 1935 production Remington 141 in 30 Remington with the same issue. A 30 caliber throating reamer lengthened the throat and now all if good with the 311291.

[peerlesscowboy]

Sounds like the nose is too big, what's the nose diameter..........as cast and after sizing?
FWIW the Ly31141 which is the old # for the current Ly311041 was designed for the .30-30. That's the one I use but the 311291 should work too.

John C. Saubak

[Omnivore]

Nose diameter is .302" to .303" all the way up to the very short ogive. Ogive length is less than .200". Haven't sized any yet, but I doubt a .309 or .310 sizing would change anything. They're as cast with a major diameter of ~.311".

[justingrosche]

Have you trimmed your brass? 2.030 or there abouts?

[peerlesscowboy]

Nose diameter is .302" to .303" all the way up to the very short ogive. Ogive length is less than .200". Haven't sized any yet, but I doubt a .309 or .310 sizing would change anything. They're as cast with a major diameter of ~.311".
Nominal bore diameter of the .30 caliber is .300", the nose should slip inside easily. Take a bullet and see if the nose will slide in from the muzzle, if it won't it's too big. Not much you can do about it except call Lyman and get 'em to exchange the mould for a good one.
Out of curiosity I just "miked" the nose of a couple of my recently cast Ly31141's............right on .300" ;-) measured some RCBS 30-180-FN also--- .300".

John C. Saubak

[peerlesscowboy]

........... Haven't sized any yet, but I doubt a .309 or .310 sizing would change anything. ..........
It won't. The reason I asked about the "as cast" vs "after sizing" was the possibility that perhaps the nose was the correct diameter as cast and maybe you were then bumping the noses up bigger in the sizing operation. That appears to be not the case.

John C. Saubak

[Omnivore]

Have you trimmed your brass?

Well now that is a good question. All I have here with me at work now is some once-fired, and it's measuring around .227". I'll have to double check that when I get home. That forward drive band is around .060" long...

[405]

Ya something is way out of wack. I've measured the nose diameter just in front of the front drive band on my 311041 and it is .300". From there it tapers toward the nose meplat. I've also checked the RCBS 30-150 FN and it is a bore rider design with a good portion of the nose section in front of the front drive band at .300. Neither one of these cause problems in any of my Win 94s- 1909, 1947 and 1963.

I can't really see that a "normal 311291" as having a nose diameter that large- they were designed for normal 30 calibers with normal .300 bore diameter.

If your brass is the right length then seems likely that either the mold was cut wacky or another possiblity? Have you checked to see if the mold halves are closing flush. I've seen burs around the alignment pins or burs round the pin holes cause the "beagling" effect.

[Omnivore]

...maybe you were then bumping the noses up bigger in the sizing operation. That appears to be not the case.

See, right there; you have experience loading cast, whereas I have none.

No, I don't own any sizing equipment yet. These are exactly as-cast, using my best approximation of a #2 alloy (9.5 pounds wheel weights and 0.5 lb tin - actually 97 tin 3 copper, so they're what - 3 percent of 5%, or about 0.15% copper? I dunno, my head hurts). I'm still trying to figure out what I need and/or want for a mold and a sizer.

Right now I have a publishing deadline to make, so it may be a day or two before I get back.

Thanks all.

[Omnivore]

Have you checked to see if the mold halves are closing flush.

Good question. The one bullet I have here - the one that pushed so far into the case - is measuring surprizingly round to within less than a thou. Only the little mold lines push out any farther, and that adds a thou or two - hard to measure accurately due to softness of alloy and the tiny cross section, but I figure they're not significant. But anywhere else they're mostly right on .302"

Also you can clearly see where the rifling hits near the nose.

[Char-Gar]

A mold that cast a bullet with a nose of .302 is a blessing. The best accuracy is had when the nose engraves on the lands. Up until a few years ago, they were .298 - 299 and with luck and a high antimony alloy you might get .300. Most Winchester barrels run .300 to .301 across the lands. A bullet with a nose that is .002 over land diameter will engrave very nicely on the lands without undue force.

I still suspect it is a short throat.

[405]

Well, the .302" nose is a bore rider for certain.:) Now whether or not it is too much of a good thing may depend on the individual rifle. I know that some older guns would surely benefit from the larger nose! Especially those that have been shot a lot and where the first inch or so of the lands is worn down. Also, a bore rider ideally would engrave the rifling lightly upon chambering.... so it depends on how much. Too much is no good as it could pull the bullet back out of the case if the action were retracted or it could cause sluggish/difficult chambering. Just depends on how much friction is required to chamber the round. You measured the drive band diameters at .311... that is right on spec. Another question. Will a 30 cal gas check fit onto the gas check shank?

So, if the round fully chambers with minimal resistance from the bullet engraving and if the gas checks fit.... I'd think it would be very usable in your 30-30.... and likely accurate! I'd also say you may be lucky in a way because the trouble I've had with too many factory molds is that they are under-sized! Also, it would really be a gem for someone with a gun with a slightly worn leade.

[btroj]

Someone here will certainly take it off your hands should you decide to part with it. Most bore rider moulds have an undesized nose. As was said by 405 this is a blessing.

[skeet1]

Omnivore,
I feel for you. Years ago I did the same thing as you have done, I bought a new 311291 to use in my Model 94 Winchester pre 64. When I got the mould, the bullets wouldn't chamber. 35 years later I bought another .30-30 this time a Model 336 Marlin Microgroove and the same mould that has been sitting in the drawer all these years works great in the Marlin. I hope you don't have to wait that long to use yours.

Skeet1

[crazy mark]

I have had 6 different 311291 molds. They have went from 2.97 to 3.03. I have a friend who has a 30-30 marlin and the one that is .300 on the nose won't work in his Marlin. His Win will feed ones up to .301 I kept one that drops them at 3.00 that is HP and 1 that is 2.99 and the other is 3.01. I traded off the larger and smaller nose ones.

[45r]

I have a MG marlin with a generous throat that it might work in,what would you want for it.Your rifle would probaly like a rcbs 180 or 150GC.Sometimes fire-lapping will make a boolit like yours fit just right and bore-ride very well.

[Omnivore]

This is all very interesting. Many thanks.

A Hornady gas check can be pushed onto the boolit base with the fingers, but must be pryed off. Seems about right to me. The GCs measure over .309 O.D. but I figure that's so they'll be squeezed in upon sizing and get a good purchase.

I started out using a fired, unsized case, so when the boolit hit the rifling it just seated it deep - not enough neck tension. Then I tried neck sizing, seating, and a very light crimp. With that, the bullet was pushed into the rifling as you can see in the photo, so we can see what's happening. With little, or practically no, case crimp, the boolit stayed exactly in place. I was surprised at how close the rifling comes to the case mouth.

The dummy round chambered with some resistance obviously, but I'll have to full-length size some cases to be sure how much resistance is coming from the case verses the boolit. I'm a little bit concerned about wear between the locking plate and the back of the bolt (shockingly little contact surface there). That last bit of the cycle, right at lockup, is where it gets sticky with this round, so I'm inclined to blame the lack of case sizing more than the bullet fit. I'll report back tomorrow on that. Whether it's "too" stiff upon lockup is somewhat subjective. I just don't want to cause accelerated wear to the rifle's mechanism.

I'll grab a hole gauge on my way home and measure the bore diameter. It's pretty tricky to measure across the grooves in the bullet, but it's either .299 or .300.

Oh; here's the response from Lyman;

You are correct the latter bullet would be better, we have run into this before.

I like y'all's responses MUCH better, thank you.

Also notice the deep ring around the ogive. That's my RCBS seating plug, designed for spitzers. I wish there were a wide selection of seating plugs, that, you know, actually fit a bullet or two, but alas. I'm thinking of making a few on the little lathe we keep at the music shop.

[405]

Looks like you're checking all the right things. That throat and leade length image imprinted on the bullet nose shank looks about right to me. Just need to better isolate the primary source of the major resistance you're feeling upon chambering. If the bullet stays put with a decent (not too aggressive) crimp... I wouldn't worry too much about it. Just need to get the entire case sized down to factory (SAAMI)minimum dimensions and check again.

If those rounds have been shot even once with full pressure loads or in another gun then the chamber differences may be causing the resistance. Even one full pressure load in the same gun can cause that the next time the round is loaded. In extreme cases with full pressure loads after a firing or two a small base die may be needed to size down near the base to reform the brass down to near factory specs for resistance-free chambering. Of course all this is magnified if you have what's called a "minimum" chamber. That chambering resistance and little bit of rubbing you feel just as the locking bolt comes to "full up" position is also normal for many lever guns even with the least bit of chambering resistance. Again, not much to worry about as long as it isn't too much and NOT originating at the case neck (bullet too fat) or from the case mouth being crimped into the bullet by hitting the end of the chamber (brass too long for chamber).

[beagle]

I had one that ran .301+ and never could get it to work in the .30/30. Got one that ran just a little over .300" it worked fine and just barely engraved the rifling in my M94.

You just have to look around. Some throats are larger and will take the bigger noses and some won't./beagle

[405]

As far as the throat goes.... the rifling engraving is a good thing for accuracy. But the rifling engraving on the nose is not the throat, that is part of the bore. The photo is not clear enough to say absolutely but the front 1/2 of the front drive band looks like it might be contacting the throat. Still not a big problem if it doesn't cause too much resistance to chambering. You can reduce that resistance by trimming the brass by another .010-.020". Or try mixing a little more pure lead into your alloy to reduce the tin/antimony % content.... that will reduce the cast dimensions by a little. Still, double check the case walls and case shoulder for clearance. If that is where the primary resistance to chambering is coming from. Try adjusting the sizing die down so that the shell holder makes (light) contact with the bottom part of the die at full press stroke. That bullet fit has all the makings for a very accurate combination if the rest of the load/powder, etc. is good.

[9.3X62AL]

Another option......after sizing the boolit's drive bands to fit the throat/grooves, a custom sizer die of .300" could be used to fit the nose to the land tops. As others have indicated, a fat bore rider nose portion is not a bad thing at all, and can be worked with in a number of ways.

[Jon K]

What you have is typical of the Win '94. A .300"x.308", I have had several with those specs. I have always favored the Lyman 311041 and Saeco #316.
Bottom line is to use something other than the 311291, or ream the throat.
Marlin has always been more generous with sizes.

Jon

[peerlesscowboy]

OK, 1 picture is worth 1000 words.

Looks like just a little light rifling engraving, not a bad thing. My impression from earlier description was of much deeper engraving than the photo shows. I might suggest be careful during sizing if the photo showed an unsized bullet, it's easy to bump the nose up a thousands inadvertantly if there's much resistance sizing or if you push just a little extra at the bottem of the sizing stroke, if you're already getting light engraving on the nose from an unsized bullet you don't want it any bigger.
I'm not familiar with the Ly311291........but it appears the front driving band is full sized? It also appears from the photo that it's pushing itself hard against the throat. That's prob'ly where your resistance right at the end is coming from. FWIW, on the Ly31141 the front driving band just ahead of the crimp groove is smaller than the other driving bands, at .304".
One more thing I noticed in the photo...........you'd do well to crimp them so the bullets don't get pushed back into the cases in the tubular magazine.

John C. Saubak

[fatnhappy]

Nose diameter is .302" to .303" all the way up to the very short ogive. Ogive length is less than .200". Haven't sized any yet, but I doubt a .309 or .310 sizing would change anything. They're as cast with a major diameter of ~.311".

Ifin you're interested in selling that fat nosed 311291 I'm more than willing buy it from you.

[45r]

Ifin you're interested in selling that fat nosed 311291 I'm more than willing buy it from you.

me too,lapping his barrel would make that boolit a perfect fit.Fat noses are good for bore-riders after lapping.

[John 242]

Well now that is a good question. All I have here with me at work now is some once-fired, and it's measuring around .227". I'll have to double check that when I get home. That forward drive band is around .060" long...

I’m not very smart and not nearly as experienced as most of you so I’m going to ask this and please forgive me if this is a stupid question but…
If his cases are 2.227 inches long, while the max case length of a .30-30 is 2.039, aren’t his cases way too long? Too long of a case would cause the driving band to be jammed into the throat and case the lands to engrave deeper on the boolit. I would assume that two-tenths of an inch would make a difference. Two tenths of an inch trimmed off the cases [edit- if seated to be crimped into the crimp groove] might fix that tough chambering problem and allow the front band some room to chamber without being driven into the throat, right?
I don't have my books with me because I'm not at home, but 2.039 is the max case length for a .30-30, right?

Thanks, John

[405]

John242,
No, you're exactly right. Much earlier in the thread the case length issue was brought up by a couple of posters. I thought it was covered and checked by Omnivore but maybe not. I also thought that the .227? was a typo or something. Anyway, if the cases are too long it could account for that front drive band hitting the throat. I've looked at the photo a few times and still can't tell if it is but if so, something is not exactly right.... either the brass is too long or the bullet wasn't sized down to correct diameter.... .309" or so. I'd also offer to purchase the mold but there's already dibbs on it. That has all the right stuff for excellent accuracy in one of my older 30-30s or 30-40s. :)

[John 242]

Thank you Sir, appreciate the answer.

[peerlesscowboy]

....... All I have here with me at work now is some once-fired, and it's measuring around .227". ..........
I too assumed that was a typo. .227" doesn't make sense, I could believe he meant 2.027" :|

[Omnivore]

If his cases are 2.227 inches long, while the max case length of a .30-30 is 2.039...
Sorry folks. That was a typo. It should have read; 2.027" The longest fired case I found so far was around 2.042".

I'm thinking maybe this will work after all. I just have to get the bullets sized and of course trim cases (which I've always done with jacketed). My problem is that using cast is a new experience and it takes some figuring things out. Plus I had imagined a much longer throat in there for some reason.

You've all been a great deal of help, and I'm very humbled at this point.

Now; I've been rather exasperated, trying to understand why some of the lube sizers work two ways, pressing the boolit nose (with a special punch for most every boolit) and then back up from the bottom. I'm thinking of a Star lube sizer, which to me sitting here at the moment, makes a lot more sense, design-wise, and it would practically eliminate the possibility of bumping up the nose diameter (though maybe that’s desirable sometimes?).

[leadman]

With the proper nose punch and a alloy that is hard enough the nose won't bump up. I would water quench your bullets from the mold to increase hardness.
Also call RCBS if that is the brand of dies you have and tell them you need a seater punch for that bullet and they will probably send you one for no charge.

Full length size your cases and try them in your gun before loading them to ensure they do not bind. Trim all cases to the same length after you have trimmed one and made a dummy round with bullet only to try in your rifle. You can adjust the trim length to eleminate any bullet interference in the throat.

[Pirate69]

After looking at the picture, your round looks just like the 170 grainer's I cast with my Lee mold; when extracted without firing. My rounds chamber with just a little pressure and there is no change in length. I do see the same lands marks as in the photo. I was thinking that this was just a good fit in the bore and no issue. As good as the 30-30s shot, please don't tell me there is an issue!![smilie=b:[smilie=b:

[peerlesscowboy]

.................. eliminate the possibility of bumping up the nose diameter (though maybe that’s desirable sometimes?).
That is desirable sometimes, but not in this case. Generally when you want to "bump" the nose up you'd just give the sizer handle a little extra oomph at the bottem of the stroke, the same result can happen inadvertently if you're sizing the casting down quite a bit requiring a lot of handle pressure to push it thru' the die. Don't do those two things and you should be OK [smilie=s:

[PAT303]

My 94 really goes the 291 but mine only chambers boolits sized .309 regardless of shape.It looks to me that the rifle has a very short throat. Pat

[405]

:)
Omnivore stated: "The longest fired case I found so far was around 2.042".
Also indicated they had been shot with Jbullet loads probably up near factory specs. (think case stretching) The mixed length brass up to 2.042" could make for some "short" throats. The other issue is at 2.042" he could run the risk of running the case mouth into the end of the chamber if the gun has a minimum length chamber. A crimp can "hide" a small amount of over-length but upon firing, the case mouth won't un-crimp or let go of the bullet. No biggy with cast bullets (probably just more leading and/or poor accuracy) as the crimped mouth with just scrape the heck out of the bullet shank. With Jbullets that situation can cause NO GOOD pressure spikes.

[runfiverun]

judging from the picture and the little bit of oomph at the handle closing.
i'd say you have a dang close to perfect fit.
if you had a little bevel instead of [or a slightly smaller] drive band it's be near custom.
load em up and shoot away....
put a little wipe of lube on the nose and it'll go easier. something like lanolin cream or some castor oil.

[Char-Gar]

I continue to be amazed by folks who come to this board with problems and don't give the full story. With an unsized or neck sized case and little or no crimp I am not surprised about your problems.

Full length size those cases, open the case necks with an M die, seat the bullets and use a firm roll crimp in the crimp groove. That is the way to reload 311291 in the 30-30. I doubt you will still have problems after you have done that.

[Omnivore]

I trim all my cases to 2.030" before loading them for real. Always have. Looking more closely, even the as yet un-trimmed, un-crimped 042" case did not interfere at the mouth or neck, even with the larger cast bullet. Assuming (yes; I know) that the rifling was not supposed to touch the nose, and seeing that the bullet was being pushed into the (un-sized, fired) case, I saw a problem. The case, it turned out, was "too long" by 12 thousandths, whereas the bullet was seating something like a quarter inch too deep.

Since all my previous loading experience had been with jacketed spitzers, this appeared as a deal killer to me-- I would never have imagined that you could push a bullet that far (or any distance, as there are dire warnings against it in the loading manuals) into the rifling upon chambering. It doesn't worry me in the least, doing just that with the cast lead, now that I see what's going on in there.

As it turns out, from what most of you are saying here, this mold should work fine. Maybe even more than fine, so I'm no longer worried that I have a defective mold or a throat that's impossibly short for these (to me) very blunt-nose bullets. Seated into a sized case, as I said earlier, they don't move at all during chambering. They do chamber with some resistance, obviously. That resistence to me does not appear excessive, though as I said that's a pretty subjective assessment.

Now; I still don't fully understand the ubiquitous one two punch method of sizing. Seems to me the Star method of pushing on the base, one way, nose first and done, no collection of top punches required, sizing makes more sense unless you need to bump up the diameter. But then I don't know much about loading cast, which of course is why I'm here.

Thanks for all the patience and the great help.

[ss40_70]

if you dont mind buying another seating punch for your die you can use some jb weld to form it to fit your boolit and lose that ugly ring on the nose

[HARRYMPOPE]

the 31141 is the same as the 311291 except for nose shape.When they introduced the 31141 i cast a few and was able to actually drop them in a 311291 mold and the body fit perfectly!Current "grinds" vary ,but that's where 31141/041 the design was derived.
The 30-30 has no throat at all,just a 15 deg taper from the end of the case.It causes problems sometimes.A nice 1.5 deg throater works wonders to clean this up,A 30 carbine reamer will also do the trick.

HMP

[hiram]

Paul Matthews once wrote about sizing the nose only of a 45-70 bullet in a 44 die. Then push the bullet out of the die from the top. Do you have the means to do domething like that--maybe a pistol taper crimp die would do it???

[peerlesscowboy]

the 31141 is the same as the 311291 except for nose shape. .........
Isn't the front driving band on the '291 full diameter? The front driving band on the '041 is undersize @ .304". I suspect it was designed that way so it'd fit that short standard .30-30 throat? My impression FWIW is that the Ly311291 is sort of a generic .30 caliber bullet where-as the '041 was designed specifically for the .30-30.

John C. Saubak

[HARRYMPOPE]

Isn't the front driving band on the '291 full diameter? The front driving band on the '041 is undersize @ .304". I suspect it was designed that way so it'd fit that short standard .30-30 throat? My impression FWIW is that the Ly311291 is sort of a generic .30 caliber bullet where-as the '041 was designed specifically for the .30-30.

John C. Saubak

Some 311041's might not have the reduced band .The 311466 is another that sometimes has the ft band or two .305 others are the full diameter (.311 or .314) all the way to the end.The reduced band version shoots much better.I'll dig up my 31141s and see if i can measure a few to check differences.The one i use most is without the ft reduced band.(middle 1980's vintage)
i agree the '41 is a designed 30-30 bullet and is also a better all around bullet than the '291 in about any 30 caliber.Many 311291's have noses that are small as .297.They shoot Ok at lower velocity,but much above 1400 teh go astray.My experience anyhow.

HMP

[45r]

I think he would be better off getting a rcbs 150 or 180GC for his winchester and selling the fat nose 311291.He would have no problem selling it since a lot of us would want a fat nose for a micro groove barreled marlin.

[26Charlie]

Following SS4070 idea, you can temporarily modify the nose punch - with candle wax. Just drip it in, size a bullet, and the excess will squeeze out. When you go back to sizing the bullet it was cut for, all the wax will squeeze out. I existed for years with just a 311413 top punch for half a dozen .30 caliber moulds, being then a poor teenager.

[NHlever]

I have the same problem with a Marlin 336 TS 30-30 I just bought. Like my two 35 Remington's the chamber has no throat, and most of the molds I have produce boolits that just don't work in it. I shot a bunch of the Lee 358-158-RF today out of one of my Marlins, but closing the lever the last quarter inch has just a bit too much resistance for it to be a practice load. Fortunately, all my .30 caliber cast bullets work fine in the old family Winchester 94. I have a Lee 150 ..30 caliber flat nose mold, and one for the 170 FN, and both of them produce bullets that have slightly smaller nose bearing areas so I'll have to work with those. Hopefully, we both will find something that runs smoothly for practice, etc. I have a SAMMI min. chambering reamer set for the .35 Remington so I may look at that to see if it has a throat reaming section, and maybe give that a try in the .35's.

[lcclower]

are supposed to be .311 throat, .3015 bore and .3085 groove, my RCBS mold with WW makes .302 nose and I size them .310 with a gas check.
Also casting the same bullet in softest lead i can muster to .302 in a Buckshot push-through die and wrap to .311 +/- with notebook paper. Still working on the paperpatch thing. LC

[cabezaverde]

Sorry to dig up this old thread, but it seems relevant.

Does this amount of engraving on the nose seem about right? Bullet is an NOE 311 flat nose. Rifle is a Marlin microgroove. Action seems to close fine.
207204

[MOA]

Or,
1. You could take a casting of throat an chamber and see what your dealing with.
2. Hand chamber once fired neck sized only empty cases into gun to check for resistance.
3. Hand chamber empty full length sized cases into gun to check for resistance.
4. All unsized empty cases tested NOT to have been fired in another rifles chamber.
5. Send casting to Veral at LBT and have him make you a custom mold to fit YOUR guns chamber.

Hope these suggestions help.

[claude]

Sorry to dig up this old thread, but it seems relevant.
As long as the lever closes fully without undo force, that is fine, the rub comes when you have to force the lever, after awhile it can bend and start flopping open after every shot. I had a Marlin for a spell, that is about the amount of engraving I was looking for.

[John Boy]

Also notice the deep ring around the ogive. That's my RCBS seating plug, designed for spitzers. Fill the seating plug with hot glue - spit on the ogive - twist in the warm glue - cut excess off and the seating plug will eliminate the rings on your 311291

[MT Chambers]

No one likes the Star sizer more than I and thats why I have 3 of them, however I have to nose size only many diff. bullets esp. in .30 cal. and the Lyman/RCBS does this (nose sizing) best.

[OverMax]

Have a 1937 carbine. Tried Lymans 291s and never had much luck in accuracy either. I then bought a Ranch Dog designed 041 profile. It shot so well just gas check alone that I decided to try shooting the same boolit paper patched without a check. After allot of experimenting in 2016s summer months. I now won't shoot anything but the NOE ranch dog boolit out of my 80 yr. old gal.

[FergusonTO35]

Sorry to dig up this old thread, but it seems relevant.

Does this amount of engraving on the nose seem about right? Bullet is an NOE 311 flat nose. Rifle is a Marlin microgroove. Action seems to close fine.
207204

It looks good to me, as long as the action closes easily and unfired cartridges extract easily you should be fine. I shoot the Lee C309-150-RF in two Marlins, a Mossberg 464, and a Winny 94. I find that these boolits stick in the throat of all rifles except the 94 when seated and crimped in the groove. This not only makes the lever hard to close but can raise pressure and shorten brass life. Seating a bit shorter, to 2.420 solves it. The cartridges chamber as easily as factory j-word rounds and shoot great. I crimp with the Lee FCD and the boolit appears to be held quite snugly, never had one come loose or get pushed into the case.

[rintinglen]

Hummm.. Sound like you have a barrel throat that is way short. I have never know a Winchester 94 to do that, but they have been made for many years and I suppose there have been variations.

I have a 1935 production Remington 141 in 30 Remington with the same issue. A 30 caliber throating reamer lengthened the throat and now all if good with the 311291.

That is what I had to do to a Theodore Roosevelt Commemorative I had to get it to shoot any cast boolit over 95 grains.