Homemade half jackets?

[cheese1566]

Ok, I took the plunge and bought some used 38 and 44 swage dies on the swappin section.

Anyone heard of making their own half jackets?

I have a lathe and was thinking of turning some gas check makers. I started thinking and wondering if a larger version could be made to make copper half jackets?

May need to be a series of dies to form the disc and then to draw it into the cup form in gradual steps. Of course I can see copper being expensive and more than likely needing a hydraulic shop press (slow, but I have one).

Hmmmm.

[elk hunter]

There was a thread sometime back where one member was drawing jackets with a Corbin swaging press and dies using sheet copper. Making half-jackets would be entirely possible using similar equipment that could be made by someone with moderate machining skills. There are books that explain in detail the making of draw dies. There is another thread where a Corbin style press was made by a member. Jump in and give it a try, you just might surprise yourself at what you can do, and you'll never know if you don't try. Good luck.

[NVScouter]

I aw a post recently about putting a check on a non-check boolit. I bigger short jacket would be like a big check fit that way...right?

I love short jacket bullets for varmints in .308+ calibers shame most manufacturers have dropped them.

[seppos]

I dont know will these hold up together..
.317 copper tubing about .430 long and 72 grain .224 boolit as core..
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/seppos_photos/plinker.jpg
Some will say that it will not stay one piece in the barrel.. But I say.. I will not belive unless I test it by myself..;)
100 grainers.. they are..

S

[KTN]

Something like these ? :mrgreen:

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o277/kainiin/IMG_3264.jpg

Not so hard to make.


Kaj

[hardcase54]

Well hello stranger, haven't seen any post from you lately. Did you make the die's for the jackets?

[scrapcan]

And here comes KTN making us wish once again that he was our neighbor just down the road.

KTN,

can you share the dies you made? It looks like you have the blanking die, a cup former and a series of draw dies.

isn't a US penny just shy of .75 inches?

[BwBrown]

"isn't a US penny jsut shy of .75 inches? "

Been raised frequently lately, US pennies of late are no longer solid copper, they are copper plated with something cheaper as a core. Might have been zinc or steel? Seems as if some of the war time pennies were also zinc.

[scrapcan]

yep they are an alloy and also sandwiched, but alot of stuff has been used for jacket material.

I gave that reference so one could easily have a mindful picture of how big the blank started life.

[DukeInFlorida]

US pennies are now ZINC cored.

When my daughter was in High School, her science class nicked a corner of a penny, and put it in a blass beaker of some kind of acid. In short order, the bubbling stopped, and she brought home a bunch of paper thin copper penny "jackets" that were easy to crumble.

So, trying to swage pennies would be difficult because of the zinc cores.

[cheese1566]

Something like these ? :mrgreen:

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o277/kainiin/IMG_3264.jpg

Not so hard to make.


Kaj

Exactly!!!

help, help, help! Share the knowledge!

[blaser.306]

How thick of material are you starting with and what is the final thickness of the .372 jacket that you show ?

[scrapcan]

Ah I see another one missed my reason for mentioning a penny. It was for size reference only.

Oh well maybe twice will let mpeople know why I mentioned it.

The blank in KTN's picture started life just a bit bigger than a penny.

Off topic, I suppose Canadian pennies are the same sandwich composition. That woudl be a good use for all of those we get that we have to take a trip north to use.

[KTN]

cheese1566,

Here are few more pictures of my jacket drawing dies and how they work.

These are blanking die parts.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o277/kainiin/IMG_3268.jpg

Blanking die on my model ANeat swaging press cutting blanks from 0.031" copper strip. Picture is taken from backside of press, and blanks are dropping to the table.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o277/kainiin/IMG_3266.jpg

In this picture, from left. Cutting punch, blanking die parts, drawing die body with first draw ring in it and below it guide bushing and draw punch and to the right rest of the drawing rings, guide bushings and draw punches.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o277/kainiin/IMG_3273.jpg

Drawnig punch ends are tapered 2 degrees to help jacket to strip off.
Jacket drawn on previous ring fits in to next guide bushing to keep it centered during drawing. Drawing rings have radiused start to hole.

Jacket going up to fourth draw.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o277/kainiin/IMG_3274.jpg

And this it what it looks like after fourth draw. Diameter .372", .551" long on shortest point and jacket mouth .019"-.020" thick.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o277/kainiin/IMG_3277.jpg

I calculated drawring sizes with simple calculation. Finished diameter x 1.2 = next bigger drawring size.
For example, .357"x 1.2 = .428" --> .428 x 1.2 = .513" --> .513" x 1.2 = .615" and so on, until you reach your blank diameter.
Hope this helps.

These are my prototype dies and guide bushings and punches were made from any scrap pieces I had lying around, just to test if it will work. Now that I know it works I will make those parts from chrome moly steel with tighter tolerances, fit these dies to work on my logsplitter and heat treat all parts.:swagemine:


Kaj

[oldtoolsniper]

I built my own log splitter out of scrounged parts from all over the place. I doubt I am smart enough to make those dies... See "Adventurers in top punch making" in the classics section! I can make them work on a log splitter if you need someone to test a set for free!

[ANeat]

Thats a great setup Kaj, the dies look great....glad to see youre getting some use out of that press ;)

Does it punch out the discs easy enough?

[deltaenterprizes]

Great work! Thanks for the pics of the blanking die.
There is an out of print book on the web that was printed by the NRA called "Ammunition Making" that gives info on making components for ammunition.

[BwBrown]

Great work! Thanks for the pics of the blanking die.
There is an out of print book on the web that was printed by the NRA called "Ammunition Making" that gives info on making components for ammunition.


If someone among us has any connections, perhaps they could contact NRA for reprints, or permission to duplicate it?

[scrapcan]

The ammunition making book is available as a downloadable book. Look for Ammunition Making by Frost. NRA was not interested in doing a reprint and it is pricey to find a real bound copy.

KTN,

once again very nice work. Thanks for sharing. Now as usual If I may ask a few questions.

Have you began work on the trim die(pinch trim) to finish the jacket?

How much pressure doe sit take to form teh cup from blank, how much to then draw the successive steps?

Do you think you could make the blank and cup as a single die, like a large gas check maker? When move to the drawing series.

[KTN]

Oldtoolsniper,

Give it a try, you might surprise yourself. You did get that top punch made.
Building things from scrounged parts is half the fun, at least for me.

ANeat,

Still need to finish and paint that press :oops:, but it's working and cuts these 0.802" blanks just fine. Have another blanking die under work to cut 0.984" blanks for longer jackets.

Manleyjt,

Not yet, I'm thinking about different ways to trim jackets for different calibers.

First draws take that much pressure that I'm fitting these dies to my hydraulic logsplitter :wink:. And I get longer stroke in it to draw bigger and longer jackets. As sizes get smaller it takes less force.

Propably could make die to cut and form cup in one stroke, but I like to keep it simple with minimal parts.


Kaj

[deltaenterprizes]

Do you anneal between steps?

[scrapcan]

Kaj,

Thanks for the response. I will be watching and learning yet again.

[cheese1566]

This needs to go into a booklet form.

[7of7]

KTN, How do you do the heat treat on them? That is the area that I don't have a clue in...

[MakeMineA10mm]

Tagged so I can come back and read it over and over again...

[PatMarlin]

The Finnish Redneck does it again! ...:redneck:

Looks awesome Kaj... :Fire:

[KTN]

Deltaenterprizez,

Yes, I anneal after each draw.

7of7,

I'm just learning heat treating myself, so I just follow steel manufacturers instructions, hoping for best. I have little heat treating oven on my shop.

Patmarlin,

:bigsmyl2: :redneck:

One more picture. Here are jackets drawn from .802" blank and from .980" blank, with just one more step.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o277/kainiin/IMG_3286.jpg


Kaj

[bearcove]

I'm intriged by the idea of using 1/4 and 3/8 " tubing for jackets. 3/8 works for 375 but could a die be made to turn the base in to form a regular jacket. These would be a lot like a barnes original. On leveraction.com or some other, someone used it.

1/4 could be expanded to 7mm and 6.5 mm and still leave a thick soft copper jacket like the premium bullets use.

A second die could press a lip on the inside then pour a hot core. Swage. Homemade hotcore.?

[seppos]

With CH:s 101 die I just close one end with point forming die and then turn it up side down.
Then.. when you swage the core in, it closes the rest and straighten the base of the bullet..
Finally.. the regular point forming.
With thick tubing jackets one should propably thin the jacket.. for example with drill to ease up the expansion.

S

[PatMarlin]

I've never really seen the full process of swaging, but it seems like folks go through a lot of work and expense for a copper bullet. Same thing is said about us casters as well... :mrgreen:

I will be coming out with a refined multi cavity version of my 22 cal "Marlette™" mold which is a mix between casting and swaging using fired 22 brass, but will not have the high cost associated with swaging.


http://www.patmarlins.com/1marlettemold.jpg


The Marlette™ design can be adapted to other larger calibers using copper tubing or brass as well. One benefit with this design is you can choose a variety of nose profiles.

This rough "prototype" mold pictured really works well and retains heat very well. I was surprised at the heat retention and the ease of use.


http://www.patmarlins.com/2marlettemold.jpg



I used 1" 6061 aluminum round stock as this and all the other materials is what I had on hand. The handle is welded on.

The brass is cut with a Harbor Freight "Mini Chop" saw and a jig holding the brass so the cuts are consistent cut after cut, and it works absolutely fantastic. Slide the 22lr case in the jig (pre-clamped in the saw) cut, then a plunger kicks out the jacket. Very fast.


http://www.patmarlins.com/3marlettemold.jpg


ANY nose form can easily be made of the best performing shapes. Simply pop in your favorite nose profile pin. Hollow points too.

With the new refined version- after cast, the check will be placed on the base and then the Marlette is ran through a light swaging die that sets the check, and swages the entire bullet to form. (This has not been done with the prototype shown)


http://www.patmarlins.com/4marlettemold.jpg


Process (on the current design)-

1. You size a fired 22lr case to .224.

2. You cut your cases to the desired length.

3. Prep your mold with Bull Plate, including the inside but not the nose. Nose pin shapes are installed with desired bullet weight before casting (don't have to be inserted each time).

4. Insert the half jacket cut brass. Cast with your favorite alloy. Easily push on nose pin and drop out bullet from below (no tap out needed). Pin drops back in casting position.

5. Place check on base, then run through seat and swage die (not done on this example).



http://www.patmarlins.com/5marlettemold.jpg


...:Fire:

[PatMarlin]

...:Fire:



http://www.patmarlins.com/6marlettemold.jpg



http://www.patmarlins.com/7marlettemold.jpg


...:Fire:

[PatMarlin]

...:Fire:



http://www.patmarlins.com/8marlettemold.jpg



http://www.patmarlins.com/9marlettemold.jpg


...:Fire:

[Daywalker]

Very interesting. You have my attention...

[rodman68]

watching also!! I watched a video that had a guy fill 22 cal jackets but there was no directions on how he did it, I wonder if this is how? Is it possible to take 9mm punch out the primer, drill out primer pocket, anneal, size down to .358 you can make semi wadcutters and hollow points.

[ReloaderFred]

I've swaged .358" bullets from .380 and .32 Auto brass, using cast bullets for cores. It works just fine, but making a light bullet can be a problem. The lightest I was able to get was 140 grains with the .32 Auto brass and a 100 gr. .32 cast as a core. The .380 brass, with a 105 gr. cast bullet for a core results in a 160 gr. bullet. These are soft point bullets.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[PatMarlin]

...:Fire:

The nose pins are fully adjustable in the current design, so by cutting the jacket length and adjusting the nose pin, you get your desired weight, desired balance, and it's fully variable.

Ever wish you could get a certain in between weight, with a special nose profile?

Ever wish you could shift weight fore and aft on a bullet design?

Ever wish this could be done in a multi-cavity mold and even change each cavity with a number of choices in one cast pour?

Well soon you will be able to.

Patmarlins Marlette™ - will be available this spring.

...:Fire:

[Red River Rick]

Pat:

Correct me if I'm wrong. Looks like you've cut the base off of the .22 cases, using the brass as just a tube. Yes, No.

If so, have you shot any of them?

RRR

[Daywalker]

Pat:

Correct me if I'm wrong. Looks like you've cut the base off of the .22 cases, using the brass as just a tube. Yes, No.

If so, have you shot any of them?

RRR

Now that you mention it, it does. Looks like cut the head off, pourd lead in and then gas checked it. I guess if you did not have a way to derim a 22 case, this would be another good route. Kinda reminds me of the Wilks Gas check for the driving bands on cast boolits. Instead of just a couple copper rings, it is one big one then gas checked....

[Outdoors]

...:Fire:

The nose pins are fully adjustable in the current design, so by cutting the jacket length and adjusting the nose pin, you get your desired weight, desired balance, and it's fully variable.

Ever wish you could get a certain in between weight, with a special nose profile?

Ever wish you could shift weight fore and aft on a bullet design?

Ever wish this could be done in a multi-cavity mold and even change each cavity with a number of choices in one cast pour?

Well soon you will be able to.

Patmarlins Marlette™ - will be available this spring.

...:Fire:

Looking forward to seeing this in the spring!

Pat

[PatMarlin]

Yep- you're right. The head is cut off. That way you can cut various types of tubing and brass for different calibers without needing de-riming dies.

I made a little jig for the Harbor Freight $35 mini chop saw. Push in the case, cut, then a plunger pin pushes it out. Not high tech, but simple and works pretty darn fast. The little saw cuts brass clean, and smooth.

I have fired that one, my first one, and it got on paper, but no winner for various reasons- balance, nose shape, load workup, etc. The new final refined nose shape is set in a die.

[Tikka308]

FYI, I really appreciated KTN taking the time to document his efforts. I'm borrowing a lot of his ideas as I document my own attempts to make jackets as posted http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?210564-Jacket-Blanking-Die-Attempt-to-make-my-own-jacket-blanking-die - just FYI for future folks reading through this forum post.

[sprinkintime]

The ammunition making book is available as a downloadable book. Look for Ammunition Making by Frost. NRA was not interested in doing a reprint and it is pricey to find a real bound copy.


once again very nice work. Thanks for sharing. Now as usual If I may ask a few questions.

Have you began work on the trim die(pinch trim) to finish the jacket?

How much pressure doe sit take to form teh cup from blank, how much to then draw the successive steps?

Do you think you could make the blank and cup as a single die, like a large gas check maker? When move to the drawing series.

Scrapcan; I have that book and its 159 pages long, it would be quite a download if you wanted to print it into a book. Sprink

[Swede44mag]

Scrapcan; I have that book and its 159 pages long, it would be quite a download if you wanted to print it into a book. Sprink

I would be interested in the book download.

[hardcase54]

Try here.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/128989941/Ammunition-Making

[Twmaster]

Requires a login... :evil:

[DukeInFlorida]

How about this link:

http://www.ebooks-share.net/ammunition-making-an-insider-s-story/

I repeat Sprink's warning. The book is many hundreds of pages long. You don't want to print it out... Well, at least not with an ink jet printer.

[Twmaster]

Got it. thank you.