How much tin to add?

[GARCIA]

Scenario: Mixing WW at 50% and sheet lead at 50% for my current use. Question is how much tin do I need to add to get to that magical 2% in a 20lb pot?

I have exactly a single bar of 50/50 solder which is one pound, so 8ozs of usable tin at my disposal.

Any help is, as always greatly appreciated!!

Tom

[fredj338]

Well, 2% of 19# of alloy is 6oz. There isn't much tin in clip ww. The question is, does 2% really give any advantage over say 1%?

[GARCIA]

Well It seems as if that is the norm in most mixes that I have seen. You do bring to the table a valid question.

How much is really needed for proper fill out?

Tom

[USSR]

Garcia,

I add 1/4 pound of 50/50 solder to my identical 10 pounds of alloy, so for your 20 pound pot, add 1/2 pound.

Don

[zxcvbob]

About 1/2% is plenty for good fill-out if that's all you want. More tin than that probably has other good qualities, but I'm a cheapskate and tin is expensive.

I usually just add a tiny bit of tin and I get very good crisp boolits. A few inches of 95% solder to a 15 to 20 pounds batch of hard lead (that probably contains a little tin already.) I haven't tried driving them *really* fast though.

[GARCIA]

Guess I will just cut the bar in half and put it into the pot and see what happens.

Getting ready to cast some of those 325gr's from the Ruger Only group buy. That is if it shows up anytime soon:)

Long way from Slovenia to this Georgia town!!!

Tom

[lwknight]

Garcia , 1/2 that bar with 16 pound of WWs will give you 2.03% tin.
The extra 4 pounds of lead probably will not make you a big difference.

Edit fo correction:
1/2 pound 50/50 solder to 16 pounds WWs equals exactly 2.000000% tin

[buyobuyo]

To get 20lbs of alloy with 2% tin, assuming 1/2% tin contribution from the clip weights and none from the lead sheet, you need:

11.26oz of 50/50 solder,
154.37oz of clip weights, and
154.37oz of lead sheet.

[lwknight]

To get 20lbs of alloy with 2% tin, assuming 1/2% tin contribution from the clip weights and none from the lead sheet, you need:

11.26oz of 50/50 solder,
154.37oz of clip weights, and
154.37oz of lead sheet.

And 1.45% antimony if WW is 3% antimony.
Value per pound is about $1.57

[Jailer]

Any more math nerds want to step up to the plate? :kidding:





;-)

[buyobuyo]

I have three pages of calculations for mixing up different alloys with final percentages and estimated bhn. [smilie=p:

[GARCIA]

Dang!!!!

Don't remember this kind of math back in school in the 60's!! Then again I was more interested in hunting and fishing in northern California before the state went down the tubes!

Tom

[thegreatdane]

I have three pages of calculations for mixing up different alloys with final percentages and estimated bhn. [smilie=p:

hah! I have one really nice excel spreadsheet that attempts the same thing. :mrgreen:

[buyobuyo]

Now that I have the formulas worked out, it would be easy to make up a spread sheet. At the time though, it was easier/faster for me to do it by hand than to figure it out in excel.

[Bob Krack]

Guess I will just cut the bar in half and put it into the pot and see what happens.

Getting ready to cast some of those 325gr's from the Ruger Only group buy. That is if it shows up anytime soon:)

TomTom,

With none of us knowing the exact composition of your wheel weights, why not just add 1/4 of the bar (or less) to your pot full and cast a few?

The big bore boolits do not need as much tin as the smaller diameter slugs and if you experience poor fill out, you can always add more of the bar to the pot.

Bob

[docone31]

If you crank up the heat, and preheat the mold, you might find you do not need any tin.

[mroliver77]

I like to run the same percentage of tin as antimony. From what I have gleaned from lots of writings on the subject is that the antimony needs tin to help it behave. There are differing opinions on the proportions but many agree on using the same percentage of antimony as tin. I have adopted cutting WW with my range scrap 50/50 and calling it 2% antimony so I add enough tin to make 2% so my alloy is roughly 96-2-2. This is a tough alloy and it will mushroom well without shattering. It works very well for hp. It heat treats nicely. I get less antimony "wash" in the barrel with this alloy. For the warmer rifle loads, Lyman #2 (90-5-5)is great alloy again having matching amounts of antimony and tin.
In an 1907 article from the magazine "Recreation" it states that Dr. Hudson(designer of the Lyman 311284 and other boolits) along with Mr. Barlow of the Ideal company were using 80-10-10 alloy for the 311284 boolit in the 30-40 Krag with jacketed level loadings and getting excellent performance. This would be an expensive alloy but I will try it one of these days.
In a nutshell what I am saying is I get better performance from WW alloy by adding some tin. Not just better fillout but better performance all around. I believe the tougher alloy withstands the abuse of firing better than just straight WW.
Jay

[lwknight]

If you crank up the heat, and preheat the mold, you might find you do not need any tin.

What most people miss is that although you can get by without added tin in the alloy , WWs do have some tin already. If there were no tin at all , you would have a mixture of pure antimony suspended in pure lead instead of an alloy.

So yes you can make do with the amount if tin that comes with the WWs if your a mind to be as frugal as possible. But why do things the hard way when you can make it nice and easy?

[HollowPoint]

I must be the sorriest bullet caster on this forum.

I've never added any tin to any of my cast bullets. What ever amount of tin
was in my wheel weights when I threw them into the pot was all I ever used.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree with docone31 on this one. I suppose he may be
as sorry a bullet caster as I am but, I've never really had any fill-out problems that turning
the heat up on my pot wouldn't cure.

HollowPoint

[kbstenberg]

HollowPoint I thinks you are coming up with the wrong assumption. From my view your results prove you to be much better than normal. An yes I know your statement was tong an cheek.
Kevin

[*Paladin*]

hah! I have one really nice excel spreadsheet that attempts the same thing. :mrgreen:

SHARE! SHARE!!! Please, because I am an Excel meat-head...:hijack:

[bumpo628]

Scenario: Mixing WW at 50% and sheet lead at 50% for my current use. Question is how much tin do I need to add to get to that magical 2% in a 20lb pot?

I have exactly a single bar of 50/50 solder which is one pound, so 8ozs of usable tin at my disposal.

Any help is, as always greatly appreciated!!

Tom

The WW lead already has 0.5% to 1% tin. To make it easy, leave it's weight out of the calculation since it is usable as-is.

You just need to worry about the pure lead. If you add 4 oz of the 50-50 solder, or 1/4 of the bar, to 10 lbs of pure lead it will give you 1.2% tin.

You could even try cutting that 4 oz chunk in half and it would give you 0.6%. That should work fine and it will let you stretch it as far as possible.

[a.squibload]

I've never added any tin to any of my cast bullets...

Same here, WW was THE alloy as far as we knew, and was readily available for free.

I'm considering melting some boolits.
I have a few big coffee cans of old 330gn 44s that didn't really fill out that well.
They shoot OK, but now I figure they could be mixed 50/50 with pipe or sheet.
And a pinch of tin.
Would come out as better boolits and stretch the WW alloy.

[GP100man]

When I go 50/50 with WW & stik ons I add 2 oz. of 95% solder to tuffen up the boolit , it`ll skid a little if I don`t , but fill out is not the problem .

Your using pure ??? , if so i`d start with the mix by adding 1/4 stik of 50/50 if problems arise add another1/4 stik , remember once blended ya can`t remove it ! , you can add to it but that`s another "math" equation !!!! Just add WW & pure in equal amounts until the alloy performs as needed & all rejects can be reblended to the current blended !

Leave room in the pot to work with !!!!

Ya should end up with a nice workable blend that`ll AC close to 10bhn !