Limited10B101 testing

[Aaron]

From my limited testing it is considerably slower than Herco, at least in my USFA 45 Colt. The short story is this. Alliant shows 9.5 grains of Herco produces 1075 fps in a 5.5 inch barrel with a 250LSWC. My boollits are nominally 252grs and my control load of 9.5 grs of Herco did 1071 fps. Right on the money. I started at 8.0 grs of 10B101 in half grain increments stopping at 9.5 grs. Basically, 8.0 grs would not break 500 fps and 9.5 grs made it to 643 fps. Not a bad thing, 'cause it will definitely use up most of the case space by the time I get enough in to get me to the 950-1000fps range I am looking for. Just thought I would share that it is not at all in the Herco speed range, so that others may not have to do two trips to get in the ball park, your mileage may vary though...

Aaron

[redneckdan]

This confirms my suspicions. I had loaded up some test rounds and they seemed on the light side. Didn't get a chance to run them over screens yet.

[madsenshooter]

Aaron, let Jeff know, and thanks, the rather conservative Krag loads I've put together, but not yet had a chance to test will be plenty low going by what you're saying. I'm hoping to get to the range this week and I'll just add my findings here for everyone. I had previously found that in the practice round this stuff came from they use 48gr to push a 460gr bullet at 2790fps and only 26,100psi. I had sorta figured it would be about the speed of Blue Dot or slower. I've also emailed VV to see what they say about it's burn rate as compared to any of their canister powders, and asked if it is single or double base.

[DIRT Farmer]

I have tried it in the 44Mag /240 SRH and 45 Colt /255 grn using H&R carbine. Max Herco loads leave a lot of powder residue in the barrel. The loads seem mild and no signs of pressure on the primer.
I hope to use this in rifle also.

[madsenshooter]

I heard from VV USA today, he's getting with the techs in Finland and will get back to me.

[Aaron]

Thanks Madseshooter for getting that info. I am hoping to chronograph more loads this week.

[Aaron]

Dirt Farmer,

Do you have a chrono to run those over? Curious if my data coorelates.

[jmh54738]

Looking forward to the VV report, thanks, Madsenshooter. Too much snow and cold -10 to check velocities. Shooting 10B101 in a Marlin 357 Mag with 158 grain lead bullet.......
6 grains ...weak barely on paper, much unburned powder in bore
9.3 grains... still shot low, 50% reduction in powder residue in bore
12 grains... shoots to the same height of impact as AA#9 at 11.5 grains, but poor group
90% of powder residue is gone
I shot up to 13 grains, which is about all will fit in the case and seat a bullet. No signs of excessive pressure in my rifle.

[DIRT Farmer]

Aaron, I don't have a chrono, and today was wondering if playing with this without one was not so bright.
In other results, 12.5 leaded the barrel of my 45 Colt handi rifle, 15 shot a good group in the SRH, and 12.5 shot a 1/2 inch in a 7mm Spanish Mauser carbine with barrel wear issues using the LeeC285-130 GC. No residue in the barrel, This load shot about 1/2 inch low compared to the 12 grn Green Dot load. It shows promise.
I want to get to the range and shoot at 100 yds to see the POI/to known sight settings.

[frugal]

I used 13.0 of this in my Ishapore 2A1 .308 with a modern bond plain base 150 grainer and it is giving almost MOA at 50 yards, waiting for the cold to let up a bit to further test. Does anyone know if this is a single or double base powder? Jeff did not know. Jeff did tell me that someone bought the entire lot of this and there will not likely be any more available as this was from Talon. It is no longer listed on Jeffs web site.

[madsenshooter]

Wow, talk about best get it while the getting is good. I'm figuring I got a lot of Krag loads in the 2 jugs I purchased. Sure is a pain to weigh or measure. I've just been using the a Lee dipper and weighing each charge. Haven't tried the Lee Perfect with it yet. Frugal, I'm waiting on an answer about single or double base. Well, I'm glad Jeff sold it all, they've sure pulled the rug from under his business.

[jmh54738]

Hello Fellow farmer, I remember reading years ago of the resourseful Afgans, and Pakistanis who loaded up their shells with cut up nitro-cellouse motion picture film. Working with 10B101 and your pushing these flakes into a 7mm brought this to memory. They favored the SMLE 303, which they could reproduce with hand tools. John

[redneckdan]

Just got back from testing a few loads in my 44 special flat top. With 8.5 gr and a 250gr keith I could see the bullets fly and impact the target. I am guessing the burn rate is somewhere between blue dot and 2400.

[madsenshooter]

Seems to be around the burn rate of Blue Dot. Using the 169gr Eagan MX3-30AR, I worked up to 21gr of 10B101, and that gave me the same speed I've been averaging with 20gr of Blue Dot. I'd guess pressure was over 35,000psi as the case necks sealed well. Looking at empty cases from the 2 loads side by side, I'd say the Blue Dot load produced slightly more pressure. Accuracy was also on par with Blue Dot, which is to say pretty good. Load was 21gr 10B101, 169gr boolit, Rem 9 1/2M primer. Average for the load was 2010fps and extreme spread was less than 30fps. 16gr of 10B101 with a 194gr bullet produced 1577fps. 18gr with a 194gr bullet produced 1812fps. I only have enough of this stuff for 6400 Krag loads! I think I need some more brass.

[sargenv]

Seems that this poweder might be a good candidate for one of those scales with the auto feed feature.. I always wanted a programable scale :)

[frugal]

Ive looked at this powder under a microscope and found it to be extremely non-uniform. There are trapezoids, squares, triangles, and long strips that are bent into angles. It is almost like you took nitrocellulose movie film and put it into a blender. It sure explains why its almost impossible to meter accurately.

[madsenshooter]

So someone took it all. Sounds like someone got a chance to try it out before we did and wisely put off sharing the fact that he found it worked well, until after he'd got the whole deal.

[Aaron]

Hi all! Got a little more, same parameters as above.

11 grs ave 715 fps
12 grs ave 780 fps
12.5 grs ave 815 fps
13 grs ave 845

Blue Dot control 12.5 grs ave 891 fps.

Clearly slower than Blue Dot. By the time I reach my target velocity, it will have 100% load density. Only powder that will load to that density, other than black, that I have come across. Very interesting stuff. Wish I would have bought more than two jugs

Aaron

[DIRT Farmer]

JMH, If I rember Dr. Watson of Scherlock fame had a piece of the North India telegraph wire in his leg propeled with nitro celeose film. Yeh his does look like it was cut up in strips and chopped. It wasn,t bad going into a 7mm, but I was thinking of trying it in the 222. I think it would start slow enough and be bulky enough to work well but there may be a reason it was used in .50s.

[LEADLUBBER]

I am bummed that someone bought all of this.....

I was going to buy a jug or two to try for my pistol loads I was planning....

I am not nearly as excited about getting going now....

it was there one day and gone the next.....literally....

sux too because I was really about to place a good order with Jeff....

[RayinNH]

Don't give up just yet. I talked to Jeff a couple days ago. He had a fellow interested but it sounds like the guy was all talk and no action. The guy said he wanted the powder but has not shown up at Jeff's to seal the deal. Jeff said if he didn't have a firm commitment by Monday it was going back up on the site...Ray

[DIRT Farmer]

I stopped in to see Jeff yesterday, you never know what you might find there. I got the same info that Ray has. If it comes up for sale stock up. I tried starting loads in the 30-30 and 6.5x55 today. I think the stuff likes lead, after being told it had to shoot plastic pratice ammo.

[ovendoctor]

done a lot of research on cross referencing 10b101
the info posted on this thread leads me to be leave that its close to that of 2400
so I am going to try a starting load of 20gr. of 10b101 under a 190gr 311644 paper patched to 311

I figure this is a good place to start

I am open to thoughts and in put
the powder was used in large capacity [50 bmg]
so I figured the 300 is a good place to start

Doc. :redneck:

[Aaron]

Seems to be dead ringer for 2400 in 45 Colt.

[TCLouis]

So if one were to use the RCBS measure with large rotor, what kind of variations could they expect.

Sounds like it may be worth it for certain loadings depending on the "new" price and availability.

[ovendoctor]

So if one were to use the RCBS measure with large rotor, what kind of variations could they expect.

Sounds like it may be worth it for certain loadings depending on the "new" price and availability.

until we all get the bugs worked out id advise weighing every charge due to irregular charges from the powder measures

Doc.

[madsenshooter]

done a lot of research on cross referencing 10b101
the info posted on this thread leads me to be leave that its close to that of 2400
so I am going to try a starting load of 20gr. of 10b101 under a 190gr 311644 paper patched to 311

I figure this is a good place to start

I am open to thoughts and in put
the powder was used in large capacity [50 bmg]
so I figured the 300 is a good place to start

Doc. :redneck:

Certainly a safe place to start in Win Mag as I used 21gr in the Krag to get 2000fps out of a 169. VV never did back to me about the single/double base question. Guess it doesn't matter a whole lot.

[Aaron]

Anyone pick up any today? I ordered six more jugs...

Tried it in a 45/70. 1886 Browning Winchester 24 inch barrel. 24 grains pushed a 405 to 1560fps and a 500 grain to 1415 fps.

Aaron

[HARRYMPOPE]

i used a Belding And mull with this powder and it worked well.My Redding 30BR refused to throw 12g charges with uniformity.

HMP

[wgr]

I am bummed that someone bought all of this.....

I was going to buy a jug or two to try for my pistol loads I was planning....

I am not nearly as excited about getting going now....

it was there one day and gone the next.....literally....

sux too because I was really about to place a good order with Jeff....

me too:holysheep:

[bradh]

Jeff is listing the powder for sale again as of yesterday!

[DIRT Farmer]

I picked up 4 jugs, If I did my math right at the rate I have been shooting I should have a lifetime supply. I think I will get 4 more when I get my pay check just to make sure.

The 7x57 seems to like 10.5 with the Lee 285 135. I need to try the 30-06 next. 44 Mag and 45 Colt have workable full power loads.

[RayinNH]

The brown truck of happiness just dropped off six jugs, 4 for me and 2 for a friend...Ray

[LEADLUBBER]

How does this powder meter out with lee pro powder dump Measure with the disc or the pro measure ?

[RayinNH]

LEADLUBBER, I tried both the Perfect Powder measure and the Pro Auto Disc measure, neither work. The outlet hole on the hopper is too small. The powder just bridges. I tried a couple times and only ended up with a few kernels of powder in the cases.

I also tried a Lee scoop and a Lyman #55 powder measure, they both gave me close to a .6 grain difference between the highs and lows...Ray

[LEADLUBBER]

LEADLUBBER, I tried both the Perfect Powder measure and the Pro Auto Disc measure, neither work. The outlet hole on the hopper is too small. The powder just bridges. I tried a couple times and only ended up with a few kernels of powder in the cases.

I also tried a Lee scoop and a Lyman #55 powder measure, they both gave me close to a .6 grain difference between the highs and lows...Ray





Sooooo....

what does work to meter this powder?

Do I need to buy a specific powder measure/dump to make it happen


What about crushing it up into a finer, smaller flake to get it to meter with normal powder dumps?



Thanks!

[RayinNH]

LL, not having used any other measures I can't answer that part of your question. Weighing each charge manually certainly does work fine but gets kind of tedious if any volume is expected.

The auto weighing machines are an option but quite pricey at about $250.00 or so depending on brand.

For plinking or can rolling the scoop method is probably best. Just keep in mind that your charges will be plus or minus of your goal charge, so stay away from top end loads.

Crushing powder smaller is a bad idea...Ray

[RayinNH]

Well I tried a couple loads today with this powder.The loads were shot through a Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt with a 5.5" barrel. I didn't use the chronograph. I also took a box of Red Dot loads as a sort of control. The boolit was a Lyman 454190 PB RNFP sized at .452.

Load #1 was 11 grains of 10B101, it shot well and felt recoil was on par with the 6.2 Grains of Red Dot loads. Both loads had sooting on the upper third of the casing.
Load #2 was 13 grains of 10B101, it too shot well and was much more authoritative. Sooting was almost nonexistent.

I didn't spend a lot of time aiming, having shot the fifty rounds of 10B101 in fifteen minutes, but they produced a group of about 3.5" at fifty feet.

Like I said, I didn't have the chrony, but my velocities seemed to be higher than AAron's at the same charge weights...Ray

[DIRT Farmer]

On a lark I tried it in the 22 hornet, 5, 5.5 6, 6.5, 7grains with the 254-415 which weighs in at 55 grains in WW without GC and lube. 5.5 was the best group, 7 sprayed them. no leading, no pressure on the primer.
In the 94 Win. 30-30 10.5 gave a plesant load with the Lyman 311-291 170 grn. I have not tried to go up yet.

[jmh54738]

Shot 10B101 in the 30 carbine today, 10 grains with 311410 bullet Used the top two slides on a Lyman #55 powder measure open to #6 (front graduations) When charging a block of cases, the powder level would be anywhere from 1/8" to 5/16" below the case mouth. I weighed several of both the high level and low level charges. Regardless of the height in the case, they all weighed within a few tenths of 10 grain, and they all functioned the m1 carbine, without leading and a good group, and no powder residue. No velocity readings as the snow is up to my posterior. So far, for 357, 44 mag, and 30 carbine, I could just dip a case full, shake out 1/4" and seat the bullet. 100% load density (without compression). Not that I advocate dipping anything but Copenhagen.

[dualsport]

Today I shot my first loads with 10B101. Used a 3 screw RBH .357 4 5/8" barrel. Two test loads, both Lee designs. One was a 150 TLSWC that's really 158 gr. Over 9.5 gr. 10B101 5 shots averaged about 1050 fps. Used a dipper, charges varied by up to .5 gr. due to the weird nature of this powder. Extreme spread was about 100 fps! I also shot an old Lee design 140 SWC, also a plain base, same charge, with very similar results. It was plenty clean enough burning wise, and the cases weren't sooted at all. It's early, but this will probably not be my go to match load powder, however it's a bargain and seems good enough for general shooting purposes. Time will tell. If you're using it, kindly report here your results so we can build a better picture. By the way, I've poured it thru a funnel with a easy 3/8" hole and it bridged, stopped flowing. Based on my comparisons I'd say it's a bit slower than Blue Dot, but that's based on very limited experience so far. It has also been mentioned that it could be very eratic if compressed. Go slow.

[TCLouis]

I logged on this morning specifically to see if anyone had tried it in the 357 and dualsport answers my question.

I will chrono and report some loads vs chrono this evening in the 44 Mag and possibly the 357 with 358429s.

Is there only one lot of this powder out there? I have 91A-009.

I used the RCBS Large drum and it seemed pretty consistent (+0 to minus 0.2 gr.) considering what I was measuring, then I get two in a row with -0.5 grain difference.

[Aaron]

According to Jeff, it was all one lot that he had, but apparently the person he sourced it from had two lots with significantly different burn rates.

Aaron

[dualsport]

Same lot # here, 91A-009. I should add that weighing the charges would probably eliminate the wide extreme spread I got.

[TCLouis]

Powder 10B110
Lot # 91A-009
429421 seated to crimp groove (medium crimp)
MagTech LP
Ruger SRH 9.5" barrel

15.5 gr. 1260 fps ES 61 fps (81.29 fps/gr.)


16.5 gr. 1364 fps ES 56 fps (82.66 fps/gr.)

This may be getting toward the upper end for loading this powder. I'm thinking this is more like BD than anything, just a tad faster.

Tomorrow I am going to test the large and small rotor of my RCBS measures and see if one will throw a consistent powder charge with this powder. I'll throw and weigh 10 from each ans see what we get.

[buck1]

The only thing holding me back is I dont want to weigh each charge.

[wgr]

this might work well in a 45-70

[dualsport]

this might work well in a 45-70

My hunch is you're right. I'm up to my eyeballs in 'experiments' right now, but plan to try 10B101 in a .444 and a 45-70.

[Aaron]

Works great in the 45/70. 24grs gives 1500ish to a 405 gc and 1400ish to a 500gr PB. This is out of a 24 inch barrel. Uses up quite a bit of case space doing it.

Aaron

[daved63]

I thought I would share my two cents on this powder. My first trip to the range with 10B101 this morning was worthwhile. I loaded 12.0 grs behind a 200gr hardcast plain base RF boolit in a Ruger Bisley 45 Colt. I had loaded some with a light roll crimp and some with a very heavy roll crimp. I ran a few over the Chrony and results were as follows.
Light crimp - 802 fps average
Heavy crimp - 897 fps average

The heavy crimp loads burned cleaner and showed less shot to shot deviation as well as the big increase in velocity. These velocities were from a 7 1/2" barrel. The primers (Winchester Large Pistol) showed no pressure signs at all and extraction of the fired cases was very easy.

I weighed every charge using an old Dedicated Systems 3010S electronic scale with the 3010D Auto Powder Dispenser. Even the auto dispenser had problems with this powder, about every fifth charge was over weight by about .2 grains and had to be poured back into the hopper. By using the auto powder dispenser I was able to load with a Dillon RL-550B and just poured the weighed charge through a Lee powder through expander die. It was not as fast as loading with a measure, but it was tolerable. While I was getting the next case into the shell plate and putting the boolit on the charged case I would have a new charge weighed and ready to pour in. The Dedicated Systems unit took about 10 seconds to dispense and weigh the charge. I don't know how well this powder would meter through some of the other automatic dispensers that use a trickler style dispenser. The Dedicated dispenser used some type of electrically controlled gate at the bottom of the hopper. It opens and closes at different rates to drop different amounts of powder.

[redneckdan]

Got out to test some loads today. Used 12.5gr of 10B101 to propel a 429421 (round grease groove). This was in a .44 special with standard primers. Got much less unburned powder than when using Herco data. Recoil seemed about on par with the same bullet over 7.5 gr of unique. No chrono data at this time. this load was not a compressed load. all charges were weighed

[dualsport]

Any pressure signs? Based on the above observations and comparing to Lyman data I would guess you're getting up there in the max range for a .44 Special with that boolit and 10B101. Lyman lists 6.9 gr. Unique as MAX. for the 429421 and it is their 'accuracy load'. All info regarding this powder adds to our base of knowledge, but considering how little we really know about it's nature caution and small increases at a time might be the hot set up. I have a Ruger SBH 7 1/2" .44 mag. and also some .44 Sp. brass. I'll try your load and chrony it, but that will take about a month. I loaned out my chrony to a friend.

[redneckdan]

I am working with a ruger bisley flat top. You are right that these loads are near max for the special. The cases literally fell out of the chambers; open the gate, spin the cylinder and six cases come out without touching the ejector rod.

There were no signs of excess pressure. The primers were not flattened at all.

[sheriffoconee]

I appreciate all the info here...now I gotta get my hands on 20 or so pounds of this stuff for my straight wall pistol cases....

[STIHLHUNTER]

Tried 10B101 today for first time.
13GR CYCLED MY SKS , AND LAYED THE BRASS AT MY FEET, (could almost catch them in mid air if you wanted too) real close to 2400.
Lee CLT312-160-2R WHEEL WEIGHT ,NO GAS CHECK, NO BARREL LEADING

[dualsport]

Reference my post #41 above; range tested a small quantity of the .357s today. From a rest at 25 yds. 18 shots in about 4". My vision aint the greatest and would account for some of that. Leading was unacceptable though, but that could have been the boolits fault, not the powder.

[redneckdan]

I did notice some leading with my 44 special loads. I had heard that these flat tops tend to have a thread choke in them. Haven't had time to test for sure though. I hadn't noticed lead before, but then again I never really looked.

[DIRT Farmer]

I have had nice soft loads with no signs of pressure on the primer and sooting on the front of the case in 45 Colt and 44 mag then with slight increase leading. Before I try to work up futher, I am watching the work guys with crono get.
I tried 16 grns to 24 in the 45-70 and the Lyman 457-124 385 grn in my Simiese mauser. 2 loads of each, no pressure no leading. A heavy crimp seems to improve things.

[sheriffoconee]

dirtfarmer...I talked to Jeff today and I have 14lbs on the way...what was your 45 LC load????

[Hamish]

:hijack::bigsmyl2:Gosh, Cast Boolits sure is a great place! This last weekend was visiting the il-laws 100 acres and we got out the pistols and shotguns, (rifles was last time down.) and I guess the kids and big kids shot up about 12K rounds of .38 and .45. Have been wondering how long my 700X would hold out this year, even at 5gr. per round. 14#'s on the way. Not to hijack, but a pic of why we are here in the first place. Rich @(:^]#>:::http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_170694d6e7f2ebe678.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=80)

[Hamish]

CAUTION: I neglected to bookmark the forum where I found it but, A shooter reported that when he went from 12gr of 10b101, very lightly compressed, to 13gr, compressed, velocity in, I believe, .44 special, went from 1200+ to 2000+, chronographed. He shot several of his standard, known velocity loads over the chrono to check and then shot one more of the 13gr. 10b101 shells and got the same velocity. This is not the first post I have found nosing around the net that speaks of pressure spiking with this powder under any sort of compression. On another note, here and there the strange formulation of this powder has prompted suggestions somewhat in jest of "regrinding" to meter better. Brings to mind taking the home coffee grinder to it. Though functioning on a very limited level, what used to be Winchester-Olin munitions plants at one time here were such a large employer that it was common to know someone who had been through a powder house blow-up due to electrons schmoozing around in the wrong place at the wrong time. Is it possible to regrind this or any powder without tempting fate???? @(:^[#>:::

[sheriffoconee]

I wish I had been there to see that 2000+fps...I 'spect the shooter was a bit surprised to say the least..

[Aaron]

That happened to me with my 500 JRH as well. 300 gr Speer went from 1200 to 2100 fps going from 24 to 25 grs, some compression. Verfied with a second round. Fired several 45 Colt factory rounds and 22 LR, all read normal velocities.

Aaron

[redneckdan]

Did the person indicate what bullet they were using with the 44 special loads that went mach loony with compression? My load of 12.5 gr under a 429421 was NOT a compressed load.

[Hamish]

Yes, they did, tomorrow I will try to trace my steps and find it again. I'm surprised no one has checked in with a range report. @(:^]#>:::

[dualsport]

As far as regrinding the powder, no. I asked about this a while back regarding the 50 BMG powders that are so cheap. The point was made that it's uncontrollable, unpredictable and not worth the risk. You'd be completely in no man's land as far as data was concerned anyway. I've had a blown case or two and some pierced primers in my life, very unpleasant. I can't imagine a total blowup. People have died that way. Remember that thing will be up in your face when you fire it. SO FAR it seems to me starting loads for Blue Dot have been ok with 10B101, but that is a guess. That alone would make this a useful powder for practice ammo or plinking. I won't be 'working up' to max, that's for sure, considering the pressure spike reports floating around. Anybody else willing to go out on a limb and call it? Again, it's just my best guess, no lab work done to prove anything. We're all kinda feeling our way along as we go, no reports of serious incidents so far, that's pretty good and says something about the guys experimenting with it. Maybe we should accept that it's not good for anything close to high end velocities with any certain cartridge. Just thinking out loud, but whatever we learn about what's ok or not ok with 10B101 is going to be from each other. 2,000 fps in a .44 Special?! That's insane.

[Hamish]

10B101 TESTING: Edited 3-20-2011 Alright, I'll stop mangling everyones posts. Keep posting guy's. The more data the better for those following in out footsteps.

.38 Special

Update on 38 Spl...
Mixed cases
158 grn SWC Hornady Swaged boolit
WSP's to light 6.5 grns of 10B100
Liked it so much I loaded 300 of these today. Raining hard here, so I just got to shoot some pinecones in the yard....but at 7 yards both my Model 10 and 49 made pinecones jump. No pressure signs, cases fell out of the M 10, needed a bit of a push from the 49.
Fired 15 out of the 49 and 12 out of my M 10.Recoil felt a bit lighter than my factory Rem "FBI" loads I carry.
I need to heat up my lead pot and get some cast 158 grns to try....
I am pleased with my l0B100 purchase in straight wall pistol cases so far... -sherrifoconee




.357 Magnum

"Ruger Blackhawk flat top .357. using 6.4 grains approximately as measured by a Lee scoop, they vary +/_ about 3ths grain. .38 Special cases. The loads were dipped with a .7cc Lee scoop. The boolits were the Lee 158 gr. SWC TL, lubed with Rooster Jacket tumble lube liquid. They were capped with WSP primers and boolits seated and crimped in the crimp groove giving an OAL of 1.445 inches."-RayinNH

"10B101 in a Marlin 357 Mag with 158 grain lead bullet.......
6 grains ...weak barely on paper, much unburned powder in bore .9.3 grains... still shot low, 50% reduction in powder residue in bore. 12 grains... shoots to the same height of impact as AA#9 at 11.5 grains, but poor group, 90% of powder residue is gone. I shot up to 13 grains, which is about all will fit in the case and seat a bullet. No signs of excessive pressure in my rifle."- jmh54738

"3 screw RBH .357 4 5/8" barrel. 150 TLSWC that's really 158 gr. Over 9.5 gr. 10B101 5 shots averaged about 1050 fps. Used a dipper, charges varied by up to .5 gr. due to the weird nature of this powder. Extreme spread was about 100 fps!
old Lee design 140 SWC, also a plain base, same charge, with very similar results. It was plenty clean enough burning wise, and the cases weren't sooted at all. I've poured it thru a funnel with a easy 3/8" hole and it bridged, stopped flowing."-dualsport

"Reference my post above; range tested a small quantity from a rest at 25 yds. 18 shots in about 4". My vision aint the greatest and would account for some of that. Leading was unacceptable though"-dualsport

----------

.41 Magnum

WW cases
WLP
215 grn SWC boolit
Worked up two loads and fired both in my Ruger 5.5 RH and Model 58 Smith
11.5 grns
13 grns

Redhawk...11.5 sooted the outer 1/4 of the cases, accuracy was so so against my steel target
13grns all bullets struck steel at same place, not much unburned powder, no soot on cases

Model 58... 11.5 no soot, some unburned powder, POI was right on with fixed sights, feels just a
bit milder than "police loads"....I like this load in my 58
13 grns...felt like police load, similar accuracy....not as much unburned powder.
All ejected empties fine, just fell out of the revolvers, primers look good...
My Uniflo measure seems to like this stuff.(using the rifle rotor)..(weights) were very consistent-sheriffoconee

--------------


.44 Special

"Used 12.5gr of 10B101 to propel a 429421 (round grease groove). This was in a .44 special with standard primers."-(My load of 12.5 gr under a 429421 was NOT a compressed load.)-redneckdan

"44 special flat top. With 8.5 gr and a 250gr keith I could see the bullets fly and impact the target. I am guessing the burn rate is somewhere between blue dot and 2400."-redneckdan

--------------

.44 Magnum

"My resultz wih the 44 Maggie using 429421
Powder 10B110
Lot # 91A-009
429421 seated to crimp groove (medium crimp)
MagTech LP
Ruger SRH 9.5" barrel
15.5 gr. 1260 fps ES 61 fps (81.29 fps/gr.)
16.5 gr. 1364 fps ES 56 fps (82.66 fps/gr.)
This may be getting toward the upper end for loading this powder"-TCLouis

----------------------------

.45 ACP

"Springfield Armory government model, Lee 220gr TLRN, mixed cases, Wolf LPP. Loaded 5 cases each of 8, 9, and 10 grains. No chronograph. Impressions: 8 grains was very nice, recoil mild, case ejected about 4 feet away. Noise was notably mild. 9 grains; recoil just starting to be noticed, case ejected about 6 feet, noise level still not bad. 10 grains, this feels more like a military hardball load, noise level high enough to remember I did'nt bring my muffs, case ejected about 10 feet. powder "sounds" milder. No "crack" to it."-Hamish

----------------------

.45 colt
"Seems to be dead ringer for 2400 in 45 Colt"-
" I started at 8.0 grs of 10B101 in half grain increments stopping at 9.5 grs. Basically, 8.0 grs would not break 500 fps and 9.5 grs made it to 643 fps." " it is not at all in the Herco speed range"
"11 grs ave 715 fps
12 grs ave 780 fps
12.5 grs ave 815 fps
13 grs ave 845
Blue Dot control 12.5 grs ave 891 fps. Clearly slower than Blue Dot." - Aaron

(PRESSURE SPIKE) with my 500 JRH as well. 300 gr Speer went from 1200 to 2100 fps going from 24 to 25 grs, some compression. Verfied with a second round. Fired several 45 Colt factory rounds and 22 LR, all read normal velocities."-Aaron



"a couple loads today with this powder.The loads were shot through a Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt with a 5.5" barrel. I didn't use the chronograph. I also took a box of Red Dot loads as a sort of control. The boolit was a Lyman 454190 PB RNFP sized at .452.
Load #1 was 11 grains of 10B101, it shot well and felt recoil was on par with the 6.2 Grains of Red Dot loads. Both loads had sooting on the upper third of the casing.
Load #2 was 13 grains of 10B101, it too shot well and was much more authoritative. Sooting was almost nonexistent. I didn't spend a lot of time aiming, having shot the fifty rounds of 10B101 in fifteen minutes, but they produced a group of about 3.5" at fifty feet. I didn't have the chrony, but my velocities seemed to be higher than AAron's at the same charge weights"-RayinNH

"I loaded 12.0 grs behind a 200gr hardcast plain base RF boolit in a Ruger Bisley 45 Colt. I had loaded some with a light roll crimp and some with a very heavy roll crimp. I ran a few over the Chrony and results were as follows.
Light crimp - 802 fps average
Heavy crimp - 897 fps average
The heavy crimp loads burned cleaner and showed less shot to shot deviation as well as the big increase in velocity. These velocities were from a 7 1/2" barrel. The primers (Winchester Large Pistol) showed no pressure signs at all and extraction of the fired cases was very easy."-daved63

--------------------------

.22 Hornet

" 5, 5.5 6, 6.5, 7grains with the 254-415 which weighs in at 55 grains in WW without GC and lube. 5.5 was the best group, 7 sprayed them. no leading, no pressure on the primer"-DIRT Farmer

-------------

30-40 Krag

"Seems to be around the burn rate of Blue Dot. Using the 169gr Eagan MX3-30AR, I worked up to 21gr of 10B101, and that gave me the same speed I've been averaging with 20gr of Blue Dot. I'd guess pressure was over 35,000psi as the case necks sealed well. Looking at empty cases from the 2 loads side by side, I'd say the Blue Dot load produced slightly more pressure. Accuracy was also on par with Blue Dot, which is to say pretty good. Load was 21gr 10B101, 169gr boolit, Rem 9 1/2M primer. Average for the load was 2010fps and extreme spread was less than 30fps. 16gr of 10B101 with a 194gr bullet produced 1577fps. 18gr with a 194gr bullet produced 1812fps."-madsenshooter

closer look at some previously unfired cases I'd used with the 10B101. 20 and 21grs gave that sorta annealed look to the neck, so I'd say it's double base.-madsenshooter.

"starting load of 20gr. of 10b101 under a 190gr 311644 paper patched to 311"

---------------

.30 Carbine

"10 grains with 311410 bullet Used the top two slides on a Lyman #55 powder measure open to #6 (front graduations) When charging a block of cases, the powder level would be anywhere from 1/8" to 5/16" below the case mouth. I weighed several of both the high level and low level charges. Regardless of the height in the case, they all weighed within a few tenths of 10 grain, and they all functioned the m1 carbine, without leading and a good group, and no powder residue. No velocity readings as the snow is up to my posterior. So far, for 357, 44 mag, and 30 carbine, I could just dip a case full, shake out 1/4" and seat the bullet. 100% load density (without compression). -jmh54738

*****COMPRESS THIS POWDER AT YOUR OWN RISK***************

----------------

7.62x39 (SKS)

"13GR CYCLED MY SKS , AND LAYED THE BRASS AT MY FEET, (could almost catch them in mid air if you wanted too) real close to 2400. Lee CLT312-160-2R WHEEL WEIGHT ,NO GAS CHECK, NO BARREL LEADING".-STIHLHUNTER

--------------

30-30

"94 Win. 30-30 10.5 gave a plesant load with the Lyman 311-291 170 grn"-

---------------

7mm Mauser

"The 7x57 seems to like 10.5 with the Lee 285 135"-DIRT Farmer

---------------

.308

"I used 13.0 of this in my Ishapore 2A1 .308 with a modern bond plain base 150 grainer and it is giving almost MOA at 50 yards"-frugal

-----------

8mm Mauser

98k Mauser
NNY Brass, CCI LRP, Hornady GC

Lee 175gr. RN, 18gr. 10b101, COL 2.893, 10 shots, 1 1/4 group at 40 yards.
Lee 8mm Maximum 250gr RNFP, 15gr. 10b101, COL 3.13, 5 shots, 3/4" @ 40yards.

Not chronograghed, pleasant to shoot, almost no real recoil.

---------------------------


45/70 and Mauser

"I tried 16 grns to 24 in the 45-70 and the Lyman 457-124 385 grn in my Simiese mauser. 2 loads of each, no pressure no leading. A heavy crimp seems to improve things.

Tried it in a 45/70. 1886 Browning Winchester 24 inch barrel. 24 grains pushed a 405 to 1560fps and a 500 grain to 1415 fps. Uses up quite a bit of case space doing it.-Aaron"

Mid 40 degree temps. 405 gr GC flat point in 45/70, 24 grs gives 1500 out of my 24 inch barrelled 1886. 500 gr plain based round noses give 1400 with the same charge. I sighted in the 500 gr loads in my Shiloh as well.

Here is where it gets interesting. I have some 300 gr Speer Gold Dots left from my 50 Beowulf, so I thought I would use them up in my 500 JRH. Started with 26 grs figuring it would give me 1200 fps and lower to mid 30,000 psi range. It actually chronod at 1197-- right on the money. This is basically 100% loading density, depending on how much the flakes settle out. I moved on to 27 gr loads. The first round tripped the chrono at 2103 fps!! I think what the he!!... The empty case fell from the chamber and the primer was not excessively flattened...but the doesn't always mean anything with a tight polished chamber and headspace, which Jack's are. In any event, I thought maybe it was an error with the chrono, so I sent another one over, it went 2097 fps!!-Aaron

******BEWARE COMPRESSION WITH THIS POWDER*************

[sheriffoconee]

Thanks Hamish for getting that done, HUGE help to me...
Got my 14 lbs yesterday and hopefully might have some 41 mag data by Sunday

[Hamish]

Almost forgot, a load for this powder for the father in law's blackhawk would definitly be a another plus.

[BorderBrewer]

Hamish,
Thanks for the report. I have 14# of this and your results are very encouraging. Time to break out my old Oehler model 12.
Regards,
BorderBrewer

[Hamish]

Um, some confusion about my review post. I merely condensed the info presented by other members in this thread for easy viewing. @(:^]#>:::

[sheriffoconee]

Rained all day, had to go to a funeral, but I loaded some test 41 mag loads with my 10B100

WW cases
WLP
215 grn SWC boolit
Worked up two loads and fired both in my Ruger 5.5 RH and Model 58 Smith
11.5 grns
13 grns

Redhawk...11.5 sooted the outer 1/4 of the cases, accuracy was so so against my steel target
13grns all bullets struck steel at same place, not much unburned powder, no soot on cases

Model 58... 11.5 no soot, some unburned powder, POI was right on with fixed sights, feels just a
bit milder than "police loads"....I like this load in my 58
13 grns...felt like police load, similar accuracy....not as much unburned powder.

All of these ejected empties fine, just fell out of the revolvers, primers look good...
Got enough of this stuff for 8,522 41 mag rounds....

My Uniflo measure seems to like this stuff...I spend a lot of time weighing charges before I loaded any of them, and the charges weighed were very consistent.

[Hamish]

Um, Duh,,, the "lost" posting about the velocity spiking with 10B101 under compression was on *This* forum, titled 10B101 be careful.

[sheriffoconee]

I am going to test this in a 38 spl soon.....I figure 7-8 grains 158 grn SWC boolit and see what happens...any thoughts??? Anyone else shoot any 10B100 lately??

[redneckdan]

I am going to test this in a 38 spl soon.....I figure 7-8 grains 158 grn SWC boolit and see what happens...any thoughts??? Anyone else shoot any 10B100 lately??

I would start at 7. That seems to be mid range for the blue dot with 158gr jacketed data available to me at the moment.

[sheriffoconee]

I think you are right.....I will load up a dozen or so with 7 and see how they roll....

[TCLouis]

Sheriffoconee

Which rotor were you using in your uniflow to get consistent weights?

[sheriffoconee]

I am using the rifle rotor, I was really surprised after what I had read here that it was as accurate as it is....

[RayinNH]

sherriff, I was using 6.4 grains approximately (as measured by a Lee scoop, they vary) with a Lee 158 grain tumble lube SWC. They were mild but accuracy was very good. Seven grains should be a good load, but I would stay away from eight unless your chronographing your way up to that point...Ray

[sheriffoconee]

Sounds like good advice RayinNH....I have the tumble lube 158 grn boolits I will be using, I am gonna duplicate your loads...

[Hamish]

Small update, .45 acp Springfield Armory government model, Lee 220gr TLRN, mixed cases, Wolf LPP. Loaded 5 cases aech of 8, 9, and 10 grains. No chronograph .(I REALLY need to find a good used one for cheap) Impressions: 8 grains was very nice, recoil mild, case ejected about 4 feet away. Noise was notably mild. 9 grains; recoil just starting to be noticed, case ejected about 6 feet, noise level still not bad. 10 grains, this feels more like a military hardball load, noise level high enough to remember I did'nt bring my muffs, case ejected about 10 feet. To me, this powder "sounds" milder. No "crack" to it. Might be different once I go to rifle, Maybe I can get to range THIS week,,,,,,

[sheriffoconee]

Update on 38 Spl...
Mixed cases
158 grn SWC Hornady Swaged boolit
WSP's to light 6.5 grns of 10B100
Liked it so much I loaded 300 of these today. Raining hard here, so I just got to shoot some pinecones in the yard....but at 7 yards both my Model 10 and 49 made pinecones jump. No pressure signs, cases fell out of the M 10, needed a bit of a push from the 49.
Fired 15 out of the 49 and 12 out of my M 10.
Recoil felt a bit lighter than my factory Rem "FBI" loads I carry.
I need to heat up my lead pot and get some cast 158 grns to try....
I am pleased with my l0B100 purchase in straight wall pistol cases so far...

45 Colt is next on the agenda...if I can find more time

[Hamish]

Thread ai'nt dead yet, wainting on a chronogragh,,,,,, I know theres more data out there guy's,,,

[sheriffoconee]

Hamish, ever load up some 7.62x54R rounds????

[dualsport]

Loading 7.62x54R today with 10B101. Hope to get to the range Wednesday as that is the deadline for a CBA postal match in which I'm shooting the MN with 'The Load'. I'll report back on results and comparison.

[redneckdan]

I plan to do some work up with the 375 H&H using bluedot data this spring. Gotta finish up with senior disaster first.

[Hamish]

That's a *new* one in this thread! Per pm with sherriff initial loads for 7.62x54 and .303 LE to be shot tommorow, I've accidently shot a chronogragh with a bow, hopefully it's a little harder to do with a rifle,,,,,,,,,,.

[sheriffoconee]

375 H&H outta be interesting...and Hamish, maybe you outta just tomahawk your chrono if it gets to aggravating you

[Hamish]

Finally got to christen my new 91/30 today. (Even though I bought it a couple of years ago.) And tried out wifes project rifle with boolits today. I violated one of the sacred tenets and the LE let me know that the bore "might" be a little bigger than .311. Will slug and go from there. The MN too, but will upload it a little more sized at .311 and as cast and shoot at 100y and see what happens. I first took my lovely wife shooting for the first time not too long ago with a 686 and a 1911 and doofy me, I thought she would want to shoot bullseyes, but nnnnooooooooo,,,,,. I can't get the .45 out of her hand for shooting the falling steel. "I like to shoot the "ding-dings"" she says. "When I hit them they go *DING*!" @(;^]#>:::

.303 Lee/Enfield
No1mk3
factory irons
Lee 90385; sized .311
Hornady GC
Lee FCD
12 gr. 10b101
Chrono string: 1469,1454,1504,1517,1497,1504,1504,1498,1499
All rounds stripped from clip.
All shots keyholed. 6 inch "group" at 25 yards.


7.62x54R
Mosin-Nagant M91/30
2 power scout scope
Lee 90385; sized .311
Hornady GC
Lee FCD
15.5gr. 10b101
Chrono string: 1799,1760,1755,1761,1774,1780,1790,1812,1794,1812
Loaded single shot.
Two and one quarter inch group at 50 yards.

When I loaded these rounds every once in awhile I went over stated powder load by as much as 2 tenths of a grain, wich I *think* would explain the velocities. Otherwise, I **think** this powder will be very consistent velocity. In my limited experience, the unslugged LE has told me that it needs a fatter boolit, although I have personally experienced keyholing due to powder "allergies". (Not enough, too much, whatever, change things and experience has shown that things will straighten up, historically I usually just switch to a different powder.) I had not realized how much I had missed using a chronograph as another tool to track experiments.

Rich

[redneckdan]

375 H&H outta be interesting...and Hamish, maybe you outta just tomahawk your chrono if it gets to aggravating you

I have done a lot of work with blue dot in the H&H for 1600fps-ish plinking loads with paper patch. I look forward to trying this surplus powder.

[sheriffoconee]

Good work Hamish....yup, you need a bigger boolit in the LE I spect.....
I need to get a mold for my MN and work up a few loads....looks like that surplus stuff might work out

[Hamish]

It's funny, not to name names, but there seems to be some sort of connection with cast and Blue Dot,,,,,.. Out in the C-clad world Unique alway's seemed to pop up. Have been "cogitatin'" on the juxtapa'sition or dichotomy or whatever you want to call it, between the pistol powder, rocket burn, semi empty case versus the full to overflowing, big, healthy, shove.

Early in this thread madsenshooter talked about shooting this powder in the Krag. I suspect that the more volume displaced by this powder in the case, the better it will shoot, but that is a WAG. Think of a big case like say, a .50 bmg case with a small percentage of case filled with powder such as is done with Blue Dot or Unique. I don't think this powder will be any where near as good, but, with the 3 rounds I have tried so far, you can fill a LOT of the case with a fairly small amount of powder.

Anyway, sheer supposition and jaw jacking. "In the end, when all is said and done, more will be said than done." Eck-speshully when you start gettin' slow. I alway's said I was built for comfort, not speed, but shoot, I got more spin drift than forward motion!

[dualsport]

Went to the range to test 7.62x54r load, it was flooded! Drove 40 miles to find a "100 yd. line closed' sign. Tomorrow or Friday I'll try again at a different range.

[madsenshooter]

Early in this thread madsenshooter talked about shooting this powder in the Krag. I suspect that the more volume displaced by this powder in the case, the better it will shoot, but that is a WAG. Think of a big case like say, a .50 bmg case with a small percentage of case filled with powder such as is done with Blue Dot or Unique. I don't think this powder will be any where near as good, but, with the 3 rounds I have tried so far, you can fill a LOT of the case with a fairly small amount of powder.

That's just what this powder is used for Hamish, but the plastic 50 cal case is more or less a straight walled case, with a 48gr charge of this powder. Because of the relatively light plastic bullet, pressure is only 28,000psi. In my Krags it appears that the pressure at bullet exit from the muzzle plays a big part in the accuracy. My Blue Dot loads seem to work best if the exit pressure is less than 5000psi. Takes someone with Quick Load to let you know that, and of course, 10B101 wouldn't be in there. Hamish, you may want to slug both those rifles. Both generally have larger bores than .311. You might need a fat 30 boolit. SD on your Mosin loads was 21, plug up the gas leaks and it would probably fall to single digit.

[Hamish]

"you may want to slug both those rifles"

Bet your bippy. I have held off on the perverse chance that I might get a first round haymaker in on one of them. You can't go anywhere on the net without reading about the varying bores on these things. Of course when you're pushing the tooling as fast as it can go so you can hand the weapon off to a soldier to step out the door to shoot the enemy, I think they did'nt do too bad. It's a shame about the "farm-boy, ignorant peasant" trigger in the MN. Slack is about 8 1/2 inches before it will go boom.

"Quick Load"

Just *another* thing I have held off of, trying to maintain that devil may care, boyish good looks, experienced reloader look! Yesterday I did'nt know how to spell Balisttition, now I are a junior one.

"My Blue Dot loads seem to work best if the exit pressure is less than 5000psi"

For some reason the phrase "She only drove it to church on Sunday" springs to mind. Talk about getting more bang and less sledgehammer for your buck. I have never used BD, once I found 700x I did'nt think it was possible to throw a bullet/boolit at a pretty respectable speed and have such lovely recoil characteristics with anything else.

Dualsport, that just bites, mister!

So long for now fellas, may not be able to check in till Monday, I'm in Texas headed to my daughters performance of Der Fladermaus at college. (I really don't mind, but I thought I was done going to "show and tell" after she graduated high school. I have important research to do!!)

@(:^]#>:::

[burr7870]

Anyone try this in a 30-06 yet? I am currently using "the load" with 2400. Looks like it may be a good candidate for CB loads in my 03a3.

Thanks

[madsenshooter]

burr, I think you might want to get some of this powder, burn rate appears to be in the neighborhood of 2400. I hope to be moving back to Ohio soon, had a job interview in Lancaster yesterday. I've worked in printing all my life, the job is printing on fancy liquor bottles, something new for me.

[altheating]

10B101 (Lot 91A-009) Tested this in the 22 Hornet other day using a BRP 226-47 Boolit, shot as cast 45 gr WW with LLA lube. Shot out of a Ruger 77.

4.5 gr = 1577 FPS
5.0 gr = 1672 FPS
5.5 gr = 1822 FPS
6.0 gr = 1993 FPS
6.5 gr = Pending more range time.

5.5 gr was the most accurate. None showed pressure signs. The best way to dispense this stuff is with a electronic dispenser/scale (RCBS Chargermaster 1500) As far as manually dumping from my RCBS Uniflow measure or the Lyman 55, every charge was off by more than 1/2 to 3/4 grain. I attempted to use the Lyman powder pal pan/funnel. Forget it! More of the powder sticks to the sides of the pan/funnel than drops in the case. Static cling! The clear MTM funnels were almost as bad. I tried drier sheets to eliminate the static cling but with negative results. I ended up using the pan from my RCBS 5-0-5 scale and a RCBS old style soft plastic funnel.

[frugal]

Sure seems to be pretty similar to 2400, is there enough evidence that 2400 data could be used for baseline testing instead of blue dot? I have been using 10.5 g 10B101 in 38 special once-fired Federal cases in the 1894 CB with good results, no pressure signs. This is using 358429 at .359. Interestingly, I tried some SR magnum primers and the results were not nearly as good as surplus SR carbine primers. This powder does not seem to like magnum primers in my testing. Lastly, I was all excited at the last OGCA show as I found a nearly perfect B&M powder measure, the old one with the brass hopper. When I tried to use it for 10B101, it would not even come out of the secondary hopper! Still have to use an electronic balance to weigh each charge.

[madsenshooter]

Managed to get out today and try a few loads in my 6x45 AR, the one with the infamous $10 Obermeyer barrel. I don't know if it's the rifling form, or the fast twist, I'm using a 23BHN lead based babbitt, but it quickly became apparent I'm going to have to go slower to get enough accuracy be in the running with the benchresters I shoot with. My Krags group better and I only use a 6x scope on them, vs a 24x on the AR!

Load 1: 10.1gr 10B101 Lot #91A-009 under the Lyman 245498, which weighs 98.7gr lubed and checked. Avg was 1901fps, ES 21, SD 6

Load 2: 10.1gr 10B101 Lot #91A-009 under the Eagan MX2-243, which weighs 81.4gr lubed and checked. Avg 1987fps, ES 28, SD 9.

Load 2 gave me the best group of the day, about a 2x2 square. Load 1 didn't work well at all. I'd purchased the mold hoping the increased bearing surface of the bullet would help grip the rifling a bit better and I could perhaps get some more speed out of it. Although it has as much bearing surface in it's .243 shank as the Eagan has overall, there's still a lot of unsupported nose.

Speaking of speed, I started the day with loads around 2400fps for both bullets. I'm surprised I didn't shoot the chronograph! I had 8.5x11 targets put up, 3 rows of four with about an inch between them. I was hitting 2 and 3 targets away from where I was aiming! So I decided to go with the lowest I had loaded, and they weren't low enough. I shot one load with 9.6gr Blue Dot under the 245498. ES and SD was about double that of 10B101. Primer for all loads was the CCI 41.

[redneckdan]

Went for a short walk yesterday and took along some loads to try. No chrono work but was able to compare them in the .44 special to skeeters load and elmers load. I loaded 10.0gr of 10B101, hand weighed, under a solid MiHec 434-640 weighing 285 grs. Accuracy was superb at 15 yds, group on the dead pine tree could have been covered with a silver dollar. No leading. Some unburned flakes but nothing too crazy. This was not a compressed load. Primers appeared normal. Recoil was more than skeeters load but less than elmers load.

[madsenshooter]

I'm getting closer to getting the AR with the now infamous $10 Obermeyer barrel shooting the 81gr Eagan MX2-243. Can't get a lot of speed out of it, it's doing its best so far at around 1715-1765. Here's a pic of the day's best 10B101 group. It wasn't the best group of the day however, Blue Dot beat it by about 1/4". The squares on the target aren't quite an inch, .942". Most of you guys start low and work up, seems like I start too fast then work down, and I may have to go down a tad more to get the accuracy I'm after.

Here's the loads, all 6x45 with the 81gr Eagan, all with lot #91A009 of 10B101, all with CCI No. 41 primers.

9.2gr, 1861fps, ES34, SD9. About a 1.25 group with a couple low fliers.
8.7gr, 1814fps, ES26, SD9. About a 1.00 group with a couple fliers.
8.2gr, 1714fps, ES38, SD10.9. This is the group pictured, DSCF1748 (Only had 8, I'd have swore I loaded 10!)

As a comparison, 8.1gr of Blue Dot gave 1765fps, ES22, SD5, and the smallest group of the day. One shot outside of a 1.35" cluster with 4/10 shots touching. May as well put up a pic of that one too, DSCF1749. The Eagan doesn't have much in the way of driving bands, and a .235 nose to ride my .233 bore. If it doesn't get any better than this, I'll be taking one of my Krags to Washtenaw next Thursday. Tried some loads with SPP-210, a Swiss made 4198 equivalent, they were mediocre at best.

[Hamish]

B,

Did the first two groups also have a vertical look to the group? That is what struck me about the 10B pic vs. the BD pic, left pic looks vertical and right pic looks horizontal.

Rich

[madsenshooter]

Hmm, lets see, those were targets 4 and 6. Yep, both had a good cluster with a couple out vertically, further out than the pictured 10B101 group, but the main cluster was about the same. Wasn't much wind to speak of up here today, unusual, so I can't blame that. I think just a little slower will get it. Loading now. I think a 3/10 difference between BD and 10B101 should put them at about the same velocity level, in this little cartridge. I'll see. Those benchresters put up flags all over the course and they talk about wind with a 200gr bullet at 2000fps, I imagine my smaller and slower bullet will be all over in the wind, but it's just for something to do after all.

[redneckdan]

I tried 9.0 gr under a 311359 in a 30 carbine blackhawk. No signs of excess pressure. Cleanest burn I have found so far with this powder. No real testing of accuracy. Forgot my plugs and muffs. Wadded up rag with duct tape over the ear might be okay for 38 and 44 specials but definitely not adequate for the 30 carbine. More testing to follow.

[madsenshooter]

I reduced the loads I used yesterday, going down in .2gr steps. The Blue Dot groups got a bit bigger, but the 10B101 groups got a bit smaller. Only 2 10B101 loads. That's lot #091A-009, 81gr Eagan boolit, CCI #41 primers.

Load 1: 8gr 10B101, Avg 1682, ES43, SD11.7
Load 2: 7.8gr 10B101, Avg 1685, ES36, SD11.2

The lighter load came out with a higher Avg because the chrono didn't catch them all in one of the strings, I think the first one. I might try going down another .2gr, but that's as low as I'm going before next Thursday. Testing is getting to be a drag, time to load something, either the 6x45, or some Krag loads. I've got a week, may as well do both. I really like using these itty bitty charges to get the job done, my 2 jugs might last the rest of my life! One more little reduction and I'm going with it, targets don't care how fast the boolit is going anyway. It'll make the 200 yard shooting interesting, but it should still be supersonic when it gets there.

[altheating]

Update. I decided to dump the 10B101 out of my RCBS Charge master to change powders. The powder was stuck to the sides and actully etched the plastic hopper. I actully had to
scrape the 10B101 it off of the hopper. I also noticed that a few flakes had droped onto the platen on the scale. After picking them off I noticed that the area under the flakes was etched there as well. The stuff is actully sticky, which would explain why it sticks in the powder measures. Anyone else noticing this?

[madsenshooter]

I did notice some imprinting of the flakes on the edge of my Herter's plastic funnel where some had stuck. Didn't think much about it till you mentioned it. By the way, don't buy a clear plastic funnel! You can never find it when you need it!

[cratergrease]

hey guys, I don't usually post on these pages, cus I learn more from reading than writing. anyhow I've found all thats been written so far very interesting and I'm looking forward to my order of 10b101 to show up. One thing that I haven't found anywhere is info on loading buck shot or slugs for 12 Ga. with this powder. I currently load Blue dot & cast bullets in 44mag and .38 super, and recently .308 win 311291 in a H&R single shot. (still working up loads for the .308). I love the idea of one powder for all my loading needs, but has any of you heard of anyone loading 12Ga. with this powder?

[madsenshooter]

I've no experience with shotshells, but the Krag loads I have listed will do ok in your 308. One thing that comes to mind with shotshells is the fact that the powder doesn't like compression. I'd think you'd have to start very low and carefully work up, rather than just using Blue Dot data. One powder would be nice though wouldn't it, especially at the price it's going for.

[altheating]

22-250 Test Today
60 gr Cast NOE 22-055 FN GC Boolit - Checked/Sized .225 lubed with speed green.

14gr 2399 FPS ES=46
15gr 2525 FPS ES=10
16gr 2588 FPS ES=13
17gr 2687 FPS ES=27
18gr 2803 FPS ES=43

15gr shoots very well from my Ruger M77. May mess with bullet seating depth a bit. No pressure even with 18gr. Like with the 22 Hornet once the ES goes above 15 FPS the accuracy really goes away.

.243 Win is next on the list for testing.

[Hamish]

cratergrease, +1 to the 3rd Power on what madsenshooter said about the compression. I've had the same thought about the Lee slug, and that will be LOW AND SLOW!! Although it does occur to me that with the right cup and the way you set up your press it may be possible to crimp a slug down without mashing the powder.

[Hamish]

7.62x54R

91/30MN
155gr. Lee .311 @ 50yards

15.6gr. Chrono: Low of 1865, High of 1900 Cartridge tipped up before loading
16.1gr. Chrono: Low of 1895 High of 1949

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_170694d9fd00b64398.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=486)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_170694d9fd01ca88ef.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=487)

Even tapping my finger trying to trickle this powder is not the most precise. Speed seems like it will be consistent if you are careful weighting it.

Like madsenshooter I think I will have to go down to see improvement. Am considering taking the Lee 8mm Maximum and sizing it down to try also.

Rich

[madsenshooter]

Couple more loads with the 6x45. Everything as above, just a bit of reduction.

Eagan 81gr: 7.6grs 10B101, Avg 1620fps, ES24, SD7
Lyman245498: 8.4gr 10B101, Avg 1658fps, ES27, SD8

Groups were nothing great today. Lot of wind @ 20-25mph. The Lyman gave me a 2x2 square with a couple fliers. The Eagan grouped a bit bigger than the other day, did fine as long as had a direct headwind, but the wind shifted a couple times while I was shooting the group and I had two out of the group about an inch and half, one in each direction. I don't think the Lyman will ever be as good as the Eagan, unless I figure out how to quit making divets and/or lumps on the base. If ever you get a chance to get yourself a nose-pour mold, don't pass it up! That perfect base makes all the difference in the world, IMO

[Hamish]

"unless I figure out how to quit making divets and/or lumps on the base." " That perfect base makes all the difference in the world, IMO"

Funny you should say that. I have alway's, alway's, had a predilection for cutting the sprue too fast and smearing. Yesterday's casting session was kind of a forced march of waiting until just before the sprue got hard to cut.

And, of course, you know what I found when I was gas checking. Am I correct in assuming that the lump is a sort of extrusion of the sprue material through the fill hole as the boolit has cooled and withdrawn away from the sprue plate?

Rich :holysheep

[madsenshooter]

The tension on the sprue plate and the sharpness of the hole seems to effect the outties Rich. I took a stone to the bottom of the plate and added a flat washer beneath the spring washer on the Lyman. I'm getting less outties, but still the occasional innie, aka a divot. The outties seem to effect group size more as the gascheck just can't get on there square with a lump beneath it. We know an unsquare bullet base effects accuracy greatly. A lot of folks don't pay much attention to the squareness of the base, meaning lack of fillout there, figuring the gascheck is going to cover a little roundness in that location. But anything less than perfect, to me, is either a practice bullet, or goes back into the pot. As far as my divots go, the alloy I use contributes some to them, I generally use a lead based babbitt that casts at 23BHN. I'm a fairly patient fellow, if anything I'm letting them cool a bit too much. I watch the color change, might be 10-15 seconds before I whack the sprue plate.

[Hamish]

I gas checked that run, and it bothered me the whole time. How can a coffee can sit level on its lid if theres a marble underneath, and the marbles not even in the center? I let my lack of time to work on this stuff overule common sense, let alone normal standards. GC's are coming off, boolits in the pot. Too much effort put into this project alone to set sail on the failboat by dorking around on the components. I was also running the pot hotter trying to make a pile faster than normal. (I have much to learn, Obi-Wan-Cadiddle Hopper)(If alloy is X temp is will expand Y, but if alloy temp is increases Z degrees, it will expand P % more.)(Keep alloy under X degrees and cut sprue before it gets frosty, boolit will contract Y % kind of thing that I believe is both learned hunting the forum and pouring the boolits.)
Got more boolits to do tomorrow to run fat for the wifes .303. B, Keep the thoughts coming brother.

Rich

[madsenshooter]

Took a little drive up to Michigan and shot with the benchresters again. Here's pic of my two "for group" 100 yard targets. Not too bad, but I think, as I've said before, that my Krags will beat it. I think the problem is all in the fast twist. Just can't get the bullet fast enough without losing accuracy. I can get a 169gr going 2168fps out of my Krag's 1/10 inch twist, with about equal accuracy. Heck of lot less wind drift to deal with. I have the answer, I'll put a 24x scope on my Krag and shoot in the production rifle class instead of military!

The pressure is low enough at 1625fps that the 10B101 is burning dirty. Generally that isn't good for accuracy, though there are exceptions to that. Sometimes a caseful of yuck will surprise you. Gonna try something a little faster burning while maintaining the same speed and see what happens.

The white circle on that official Cast Bullet Association target is 4.25". So at 200 yards, it was hard to tell where in that circle the bullet was going to hit. I think I did manage to keep all but two of them in there, and those two were within the orange scoring circles. They're 5.675" in diameter. If it doesn't get any better, it's back to the 115 year old artillery!

[dualsport]

That's a 200 yd. target with the AR 6x45? Just checking to make sure I'm not lost. Good shooting regardless. If you put a 24X on the Krag post a picture. I put a BSA 36X fixed on a Marlin 1894c! Looked great, but too much of a good thing.

[madsenshooter]

No, the pictured targets are 100yd groups. But all the shots at 200, save two, were within the white. Minute of coyote noggin, but I'd prefer to pick which eye. Still working on it. I've got my alloy casting at a BHN of 29, that ought to help things.

One of my Krags is drilled and tapped for a Weaver side mount, don't know how big a scope I can get on it, but will find out soon. I'm working on putting a Miller Kodiak mount on another, looks like the Brooklyn bridge sitting on a Krag, but gets the scope over the bore. Again, I don't know how large an objective lens I can get on it. Here's a pic of the Miller mount with a Lyman Alaskan boosted to 6x. I have some little inserts that allow me to raise the scope about 1/4" higher, so I might be able to get a 40mm objective bell on there.

[dualsport]

Loading up some 45-70. Experimental load only! Haven't shot it yet, going to the range tomorrow. H&R 45-70, 405 gr. Lee PB, 22.1 gr. (2.2cc dipper) 10B101 lot #91A-009, 1/2 gr. dacron wad. My guess is about 1300fps. EDIT; Fired 10 shots at 100 yds. with above combo, fair accuracy. With a 4X scope on the H&R it was about a 7" load. Not good, but could be worse. My guess at this point is it's the boolit/lube, since that 405 gr. Lee hasn't shot well in my gun anyway. I just had some handy and wanted to try the 10B101 in the 45-70. It did burn clean and kicked hard, shooting the little H&R from a bench is tuff duty. I would not consider increasing the powder charge, the primers showed slight flattening. I do think this load would be fine for close in bear and hogs.

[Aaron]

Is the electronic powder measures the only ones anyone has got to work with this powder? I thought I saw someone say the Belding & Mull did not work, which means neither will the MVA.

Thanks

Aaron

[redneckdan]

I have thrown and weighed by hand for all the work up I have done.

[bfuller14]

Could anybody give me their opinion about using this 10B101 in 35 Rem.
My books show it very close to the 30-06 loads.

Thank you all,
Barry

[madsenshooter]

bfuller14, I have some Quickload data for Blue Dot in the 35Rem, that a fellow did for me, but it appears that forum is down, will PM you when it's back up, and I can get to it, might have saved somewhere else on my computer too, will look.

[bfuller14]

Thank you Madsenshooter!

[madsenshooter]

PM sent, basically, 17-21.8gr of 10B101 ought to work for you, depending on the velocity you're looking for. Start low and work up! In the Krag I've found 1gr more of 10B101 gives me the same velocity that I get with Blue Dot.

[Hamish]

A little more info .303LE and 7.62x 54R posted http://tinyurl.com/6f3cu6u

I think I have finally learned my lesson on *not* slugging US made firearms before starting load work, need to find a .316 RF or HP to fit wifes .303.

13gr.s looks promising in MN with the Lee 155 boolit as cast, 1.5 at 50 yards with 2x scout scope and half inch travel trigger. A certain feller advises an econical 2-7x that may help.

[dualsport]

Tried some new loads in the H&R 45-70. The Ranch Dog TLC458-350 over 19.2 gr. 10B101 (lot 91A-009) chrono'd an average of 1310 fps and shot 5 shots into 1 1/2" at 50 yds. Then I tried the big Lee 500 gr. Postell type plain base over 16.2 gr. 10B101 and a dacron filler for about 1130 fps and 6 shots into 1 7/8" 50 yds. Both loads felt fairly mild compared to some I've shot. Not match grade accuracy but useful enough for close in hunting. The little H&R is a tough one to shoot well from a bench. I'm shooting at 50 yds. for now as I'm gimpy.

[Hamish]

dualsport, I have this idea,,,,,

I want to take an R/C car and put a target holder on it. Why walk when you can drive!

Quick report, using the .7cc Lee dipper under 148gr. HBWC in the .38spc. shot with authority out of the wifes two inch GP100. Have been using this dipper for .45ACP and like it very much.

[dualsport]

Just don't shoot the car! This powder is a bear to measure anyway you cut it. If a guy was determined enough and stubborn it can be weighed out to fairly consistent charge weights, but I'm not that patient. I'll just use the dippers and call it good enough. Not good match powder. The RD TLC 458-350 RF had a low of 1292 fps and a high of 1333 fps, not too bad. The big Lee 500 went from 1075 to 1145 fps even with the dacron filler. But it's cheap shooting and I'm a tightwad so I like this powder well enough for plinkin'. I may goose it up a notch to see if accuracy improves.

[RayinNH]

This is not the powder for top end loads because it is difficult to measure. I use the scoop method as well and realize that charges will vary up or down a bit. Just pick a midrange load for good accuracy and proceed. Life is too short to weigh pistol loads.

This powder also has a pleasant smell to it, just haven't figured out yet what it reminds me of :)...Ray

[cratergrease]

Finally got up the gall to try some 10B101 in a shot gun load, Probably not the best powder but I just wanted to try. Loaded 5 1oz 20ga. loads. wads were firmly pressed down on 16 gr. all shots were fired with shotgun tied down and trigger pulled w/ a string as I was skittish about powder compression issue. All went pow!!! w/ no aparent damage to the shot gun. plenty of powder left un burnt after each shot. Just wanted to try, I'll save the rest for my 44mag and .308 loads