12ga muzzleloader on deer

[camerl2009]

ok so i got my barrels and im looking at some loads

now i dont know what choke the barrels are i got to ream them out

i want some sort of choke for shot i mite go with a IC so patched RB is a no go

what would be more affective on deer 00 buckshot or buck and ball

30 yrds or so

[northmn]

In a 12 gauge plain old ball will more than work fine on deer. As to chokes, if you are going to use ball then you are best with a jug choke. A contributer on another site shot two nice deer last season with his 20 bore and roundball with the 20 bore being jug choked for turkeys which he has also shot a few of with a ML.

DP

[camerl2009]

In a 12 gauge plain old ball will more than work fine on deer. As to chokes, if you are going to use ball then you are best with a jug choke. A contributer on another site shot two nice deer last season with his 20 bore and roundball with the 20 bore being jug choked for turkeys which he has also shot a few of with a ML.

DP

the choke are on the gun there fixed IC is what im going to ream them out to
the barrels for my muzzleloader are old cartridge double barrel damascus steel

i dont like that hole jug choke thing something about them idk

and a ball by it self is not going to hit anything it will bounce down the barrel id need a army just to hit a deer lol

but i think if i cut the shotcup off a waa12 wad and glue it in the middle of a fiber wad it should work nice with a .690 rb

[Moose Owner]

i want some sort of choke for shot i mite go with a IC so patched RB is a no go



Just because your barrel have some constriction does not mean that round balls are a no go.

I shoot a .715 round ball in a 12 gauge Pedersoli SxS. The Pedersoli has removable choke tubes. I started by using one cylinder choke and one skeet choke. However, I noticed that the barrel with the skeet choke consistently produced better groups. Consequently, I removed the cylinder choke and replaced it with an improved cylinder choke. The IC tube should have constriction of 10 thousandths, meaning that the choke is only 4 thousandths larger than the diameter of the ball. Notwithstanding the tight tolerances, the balls loaded easily through the IC choke tube with a wrap or two on the short starter. Based a limited sample, the IC choke appears to produced better groups than the Skeet choke.

So, you might hold off on removing the chokes until after are able to give the RBs a try with the chokes in place. If you are using a .690 round ball you should have no problem getting it past the chokes.


_________________________________

www.muzzleloadingshotguns.com

[camerl2009]

i think i can use the lee slug in a cut off shotcup like ^

thats going to be my buck and ball or a round ball in one barrel and buckshot in the other

i can play as long as i dont go over 1 1/4oz

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Up in the shotgun froum do a Round Ball search.. Lots of great info there about choke constriction... Ball plus wad or patch being fatter than the choke.
In a nutshell I found .003 to .007 choke constiction to ball pachage gives good accuracyout to 40 yards. With some fine load adjusting you should be able to get 50 yards.
On a muzzleloader I would start with about .010 constriction as you can always ream more out but not replace. You can always start with a tight fit at the muzzle and see what you have without reaming.
A caliber .69 RB moving at 1000 fps at 50 yards will bust both shoulders on large deer. Chest shots through the ribs will complete penetrate. I have never shot one up the back side.
Caliber .57 RB will go through 2 deer (rib shot) 35 yards away standing 5 feet apart propelled by 85 grains 2F. Fired from my Zouave.
So do not be concered about enough accuracy at under 40 yards +. I would not recommend buck shot at any range past 12 yards. That is me. I would rather always fire a RB and I have never been disapointed.

[camerl2009]

ok i cant have to tight of a choke in a muzzleloader any way the chokes on this double are not removable

so a .690 rb will fit passed the choke but it will bounce down the barrel with nothing to center it

a .490 rb on top of 6 00 buck

or as i saw on a thread on here a donut wad under the ball and one on top or load a nitro card the a fiber then a cut off cup from a win waa wad
then rool the ball down the barrel and push it in the wad a 20ga ramrod tip should do the job

and i go a set of 10ga barrel with the 12ga set so im building 2 shotguns both flintlock

[excess650]

You CAN shoot a patched roundball through an IC. The trick is having a ball and patch combination that will load through the restriction. I've done it with my TC New Englander, and while 50 yard shots wouldn't be my choice, it groups really well at 25 yards.

[northmn]

A IC choke will vary from about 05-08 constriction. The 010 is a quarter choke or weak modified. I had to ream out the full choke in my 12 bore so that it would load easier with both card wads and roundball. Loading is basically dependent up putting a crown on the muzzle similar to that on a rifle. Jug chokes are more universally used in fowlers today as they pattern shot with a traditional load and work better with roundball. My 20 bore with no choke shoots very tight with round ball out to 75yards, but it has rifle sights.

DP

[camerl2009]

A IC choke will vary from about 05-08 constriction. The 010 is a quarter choke or weak modified. I had to ream out the full choke in my 12 bore so that it would load easier with both card wads and roundball. Loading is basically dependent up putting a crown on the muzzle similar to that on a rifle. Jug chokes are more universally used in fowlers today as they pattern shot with a traditional load and work better with roundball. My 20 bore with no choke shoots very tight with round ball out to 75yards, but it has rifle sights.

DP

.010 is a IC choke and i need a choke on it for hunting with shot and shooting clays.

i cant jug choke it these barrels are old i dont know if thay will take that kind of work and jug choking well there are places n that type of set up where residue
can build up and pit the barrel thats just my .02

you cant load a pacthed RB with a choke anything that will fit passed the choke
will bounce down the barrel there is no way you can get a .715 ball with a .015 patch passed the choke.

and there is no way im going to patch a .690 rb for it there is no point
for a patched RB to work it has to fit the bore

[camerl2009]

A IC choke will vary from about 05-08 constriction. The 010 is a quarter choke or weak modified. I had to ream out the full choke in my 12 bore so that it would load easier with both card wads and roundball. Loading is basically dependent up putting a crown on the muzzle similar to that on a rifle. Jug chokes are more universally used in fowlers today as they pattern shot with a traditional load and work better with roundball. My 20 bore with no choke shoots very tight with round ball out to 75yards, but it has rifle sights.

DP

.010 is a IC choke and i need a choke on it for hunting with shot and shooting clays IC is the ream point thats it

i cant jug choke it these barrels are old i dont know if thay will take that kind of work and jug choking well there are places n that type of set up where residue
can build up and pit the barrel thats just my .02

you cant load a pacthed RB with a choke anything that will fit passed the choke
will bounce down the barrel there is no way you can get a .715 ball with a .015 patch passed the choke.

and there is no way im going to patch a .690 rb for it there is no point
for a patched RB to work it has to fit the bore

i cant hold off on reaming the chokes becuse i will not be able to load the dam thing with out deforming the wads light mod will work ok too but only for shot

i still want to use it for deer the cut off shot cup on top of fiber should do the trick
it should work good with the lee slug too

[waksupi]

Cam, you have a hell of a lot to learn about muzzle loaders. I haven't even found a starting point to teach you, as much as I would like to.

[camerl2009]

Cam, you have a hell of a lot to learn about muzzle loaders. I haven't even found a starting point to teach you, as much as I would like to.

i have used muzzleloader for some time now i'll go with what im doing

these guys are saying that a RB by it self will work by it self its not going to hit where you want

for deer i like to hit hart and lung and thats it. my target on a deer is 6" if i cant get every shot on target its not worth trying

i like my patched round ball to fit the bore with + .005" so thats a no go

my idea should work with a .690 rb

for my .50 i use a a .495rb with a .015 denim patch i use 70gr charge(by weight) of goex 2ff i can get 1 hole groupes at 100(off the bench)

[longbow]

I used to have a Pedersoli side by 12 ga. with both barrels choked ~ I/C and modified I think but tight enough to be a problem (for me anyway) loading bore size or near bore size slugs from the muzzle.

I tried 0.690" balls naked over hard card wads but got poor accuracy. I was not smart enough at the time to think of donut wads or inverted gas seals to center the ball.

Do some testing with donut wads or inverted gas seals under the ball to keep it centered. If you can get the ball to 50 yards accurately it will do the job. I can count on less than 6" and usually under 4" groups at 50 yards with round balls in my cartridge 12 ga.

My solution for the Pedersoli was 00 buck. I loaded 12 pellets over 3 3/4 drams of BP. I shot a spike buck at about 25 to 30 yards and dug 9 out of 12 pellets out of him. Damage was quite impressive with holes through heart and lungs, broken shoulder and broken leg.

I am not sure I would want to push the range much farther though at least without doing quite a bit of patterning to make sure the group is tight enough at the desired range.

Longbow

[camerl2009]

I used to have a Pedersoli side by 12 ga. with both barrels choked ~ I/C and modified I think but tight enough to be a problem (for me anyway) loading bore size or near bore size slugs from the muzzle.

I tried 0.690" balls naked over hard card wads but got poor accuracy. I was not smart enough at the time to think of donut wads or inverted gas seals to center the ball.

Do some testing with donut wads or inverted gas seals under the ball to keep it centered. If you can get the ball to 50 yards accurately it will do the job. I can count on less than 6" and usually under 4" groups at 50 yards with round balls in my cartridge 12 ga.

My solution for the Pedersoli was 00 buck. I loaded 12 pellets over 3 3/4 drams of BP. I shot a spike buck at about 25 to 30 yards and dug 9 out of 12 pellets out of him. Damage was quite impressive with holes through heart and lungs, broken shoulder and broken leg.

I am not sure I would want to push the range much farther though at least without doing quite a bit of patterning to make sure the group is tight enough at the desired range.

Longbow

yup 30 yrds is the max i want to go with it

i will try gas seals and donut but i like the idea of the cut off shotcup or steel shot
shotcups

and i got a crazy idea just now load a wad stack as normal then 3 00 buck then a
.490 rb then 3 00 buck and a over shot card ;-)

and i know this in muzzleloading shotgun you play with the powder charge
and use the same scoop for powder and shot

[excess650]

Cam, you have a hell of a lot to learn about muzzle loaders. I haven't even found a starting point to teach you, as much as I would like to.

You can't teach someone who knows EVERYTHING![smilie=1:

[gnoahhh]

I gave up on this boy a while back. Aside from his off-the-wall ideas his posts take too much effort to decipher. How many of us have offered sound advice only to have it go right over his head? No more. I have spent my entire adult life helping young people get a leg up, but sometimes you just have to shake your head and walk away.

[45nut]

There are tons of things that simply do not translate well to a thread and almost must be person-to person learning. this may be one.
Is there anyone in your area that is a mentor to you?

[camerl2009]

There are tons of things that simply do not translate well to a thread and almost must be person-to person learning. this may be one.
Is there anyone in your area that is a mentor to you?

most of them are long gone :sad:

[northmn]

Most people underestimate a smoothbores efffectiveness with roundball. A large part of it is due to the rulings that rear sights are inappropriate for competition. Many that have them also compete. I built up a "smooth rifle" Its a smooth bore that looks indistinguishable from a long rifle and has sights. I tested it out to 75 yards as that is a good sight in distance with one. While the 20 bore smoothy is not as accurate as my 58 rifle it groups into at least 4 inches at that range. I load very good ball, short start the load with tight patching and take any care in loading you might with a rifle. At this time my only concern would be to make sure a clean barrel shoots to point of aim like the fouled does. Got a grouse with it but ended up shooting a deer the last week with a 99 Savage. So many guns so few deer. I would post pictures but the gun is still in the rough.

DP

[10 ga]

At less than 40 yards most any choke will kill deer with buckshot. An IC should shoot something good. You can start with #1 buck and get bigger buck to try. Even with a cyl bore you could duplicate something like the "Dixie Triball" in a ML and it will certainly kill deer at way more than 70 yds. Forget the "fitting a ball" problems and just use buckshot. At your stated 30 yards It'll kill bout any deer you shoot at. I've killed deer with buckshot for 50 years and believe me it'll kill'em real dead at 30 yds. Heck the kids shoot #3 and #4 buck in the 20 ga guns and at 30 yds it will flatten them. With a 12 ga load of #4 buck, 42 pellets in a 3" 12, you have a bunch of lead headed to the target and at 30 yards it'll be a dead deer. Much over that and #4 buck loses penetration power but you can put them on the target. My $.02, 10 ga

[camerl2009]

At less than 40 yards most any choke will kill deer with buckshot. An IC should shoot something good. You can start with #1 buck and get bigger buck to try. Even with a cyl bore you could duplicate something like the "Dixie Triball" in a ML and it will certainly kill deer at way more than 70 yds. Forget the "fitting a ball" problems and just use buckshot. At your stated 30 yards It'll kill bout any deer you shoot at. I've killed deer with buckshot for 50 years and believe me it'll kill'em real dead at 30 yds. Heck the kids shoot #3 and #4 buck in the 20 ga guns and at 30 yds it will flatten them. With a 12 ga load of #4 buck, 42 pellets in a 3" 12, you have a bunch of lead headed to the target and at 30 yards it'll be a dead deer. Much over that and #4 buck loses penetration power but you can put them on the target. My $.02, 10 ga

i cant go over 1 1/4oz so a tri ball is a no go


and i can only use SG( #1) or biger buckshot i have a surplus of 00

[Alan]

#1 buck is death on deer, as is 0. I like either of these better than 00. Just work up a load that will get you to 1150-1200 fps that doesn't dougnut on you. Play with your wad column and you should be able to get tight patterns out to 40-50 yards. I personally stick with staying under 40 yards with unwounded deer and buckshot. A suggestion would be RB in the open bore, and carefully worked up buckshot loads.

[camerl2009]

#1 buck is death on deer, as is 0. I like either of these better than 00. Just work up a load that will get you to 1150-1200 fps that doesn't dougnut on you. Play with your wad column and you should be able to get tight patterns out to 40-50 yards. I personally stick with staying under 40 yards with unwounded deer and buckshot. A suggestion would be RB in the open bore, and carefully worked up buckshot loads.

well open bore is not going to be done but buckshot is where im going

[camerl2009]

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/12ga-Obturator-Gas-Seal-250_pk/productinfo/02012/ this gas seal looks good for round ball

[Alan]

For future reference:
http://www.muzzleloadingshotguns.com/articles/12gaugeroundballloadsforbiggame

Alan

[mckutzy]

Alan- +1 wow quite the reference.. very nice. They talk alot about some old ideas and try them out with pics and data.

camerl2009- Lets see some of the data, targets, a pic of your gun perhaps and type, ect of the stuff u have shot, so we can better understand why your resistant to our advise with the types of loads and opinions, especialy the choke situation.
Them gas seals quite likely would work well, but most of what is said here especially with the ML crowd, is try building something yourself and go from there.

[camerl2009]

Alan- +1 wow quite the reference.. very nice. They talk alot about some old ideas and try them out with pics and data.

camerl2009- Lets see some of the data, targets, a pic of your gun perhaps and type, ect of the stuff u have shot, so we can better understand why your resistant to our advise with the types of loads and opinions, especialy the choke situation.
Them gas seals quite likely would work well, but most of what is said here especially with the ML crowd, is try building something yourself and go from there.

well i cant get pic to work on any forum. and people are saying that i should do stuff like jug choke my gun not going to happen

its going to be IC choked once im done with it.
and fromwhat i under stand the ball and patch needs to be bore size not choke size but i think i got it worked out

a cut off waa12 shotcup on top of 1 nitro card and 1 1/2" fiber wad
use a short starter and go just passed the choke(about 2") with it then put a .690RB in the shot cup and then a over shot card on top

i will not use a .715 rb on top on the wads is it will bounce and deform
im going to check the choke size and see i mite not ream them out at all
idk we will see first thing i have to do is get rid of the pitting in the bore its light so
it should not be to hard

[mckutzy]

free pics hosting, virtually all forums recommended and very simple to upload for anyone, if u can post here, you too can operate it with ease.
http://photobucket.com/
Now if it is a lack of a camera thing, just say it. but they are cheap and very affordable, and most cellphones have a somewhat decent pic taking ability. so u have options.

[waksupi]

Or use your web cam, and link us to your Youtube videos.

[45 2.1]

Cam, you have a hell of a lot to learn about muzzle loaders. I haven't even found a starting point to teach you, as much as I would like to.

How about starting a new thread giving the specifics of loading a single barrel muzzle loading 12 gauge for RB then. Several people here would benefit instead of trying to decipher just who has the correct information. A lot of passed along information that is the direct opposite of what you should do gets posted in a lot of different threads. I have a TC single barrel 12 that would see some use also. Buckshot or shot loads wouldn't hurt a bit.