Bfr 45/70

[crabo]

I have been talking with my BIL about his wanting a 500S&W. He looked at a BFR and really liked it. The more we checked into it, it wasn't such a good deal. I suggested he check out the BFR in 45/70. I just taught him to load up 45/70s for his guide gun. We ordered 250 rounds of new Starline brass.

I suggested he go with the 45/70 for his testosterone fix. He could use the same powder, primer, brass and dies for both guns. That would save on reloading equipment to start with. He could shoot some Unique loads for fun and load up some hotter stuff for hunting.

What kind of loads are you guys using in your 45/70 pistols?

How would you compare the recoil of the 45/70? I know that is a loaded question because of the different weight boolits and powder charges that you could use.

[Bass Ackward]

How would you compare the recoil of the 45/70? I know that is a loaded question because of the different weight boolits and powder charges that you could use.


Compare? To a launching system with three points of contact that utilizes a heavier core anatomical portion to distribute the force? Have you considered the biggest variable which is gun weight?

I'd say that it doesn't matter, does it? You bought the brass and made the decision. Besides, what WAS the alternative? A 500 Smith? Recoil there too.

Sounds like it's full speed ahead on the 45-70. Or not, if the recoil does bother you.

Somewhere between imagination and reality, between squibs and full power, you will discover all the recoil you can handle.

Sounds like a lot of in between area and that my friend, is Dacron. :grin:

[44man]

I have been talking with my BIL about his wanting a 500S&W. He looked at a BFR and really liked it. The more we checked into it, it wasn't such a good deal. I suggested he check out the BFR in 45/70. I just taught him to load up 45/70s for his guide gun. We ordered 250 rounds of new Starline brass.

I suggested he go with the 45/70 for his testosterone fix. He could use the same powder, primer, brass and dies for both guns. That would save on reloading equipment to start with. He could shoot some Unique loads for fun and load up some hotter stuff for hunting.

What kind of loads are you guys using in your 45/70 pistols?

How would you compare the recoil of the 45/70? I know that is a loaded question because of the different weight boolits and powder charges that you could use.
The big BFR 45-70 is pleasant to shoot and deadly accurate.
I shoot from 300 to 420 gr boolits. I use nothing but 4759 powder and a Fed 155 primer, then a wad of Dacron on the powder.
Unique was not accurate. Since recoil with good loads is mild, no sense to the stuff anyway.
300 gr Hornady, .458" bullet, 32.5 gr of 4759.
317 gr boolit, .459", 31 gr. (1632 fps.)
325 gr boolit, 31.5 gr.
330 gr boolit, 31.5 gr.
350 to 360 gr boolits, 30 gr.
378 gr boolit, 30 gr.
420 gr boolits, 28.5 gr.
448 gr boolit 26 gr.
Use a tuft of Dacron in all loads and do not download or you can have an ignition problem. You can use a standard LR primer but the mainspring is set up for a LP primer. The spring is 23# but the .450 Marlin cylinder will be fit with a 28# spring.
Accuracy was not as good with a LR primer.
Seat the dacron gently on the powder and let it spring back up so the boolit pushes it down, don't pack it first. I use garnetted fiberfill, it doesn't have those stray, long strands. I get it from Jo-Anne fabrics.
These are some of the boolits I use and average groups at 50 yards. One is 10 shots.
One 5 shot group is 5/16".
We have shot many groups at 100 yards well under 1". I have clanged a steel ram at 500 meters over and over with the thing.

[44man]

I tried every powder there is for the 45-70 and boolits to 500 gr.
The problem is getting many powders to burn in the 10" barrel.
4198 gave me problems with pressure excursions, jumping a few shots to 1800 fps and sticking brass.
3031 would not all burn and gave low velocities.
Varget actually worked best as slow as it is.
Unique and 4227 gave very poor groups.
Nothing has beat 4759 for decent velocity and accuracy.

[crabo]

Somewhere between imagination and reality, between squibs and full power, you will discover all the recoil you can handle.
:grin:

This is what I was telling him. He can do lighter loads when no one is watching and power up for his friends.

[44man]

This is what I was telling him. He can do lighter loads when no one is watching and power up for his friends.
Even powered up it comes nowhere near close to a .475! :drinks:

[Whitworth]

I've got to be perfectly honest here, but I've shot 44man's .45/70 BFR quite extensively and even loaded "hot" I have to say that it is way more pleasant to shoot than the other big-bore revolvers that we have collectively. The accuracy is eye-opening to say the least. Great revolver IMO!

[Frank]

44man:
Even powered up it comes nowhere near close to a .475!
On a power level, the 45-70 is a step up from the pistol caliber.

[Whitworth]

44man:
On a power level, the 45-70 is a step up from the pistol caliber.


And still makes a smaller hole......

The .454 can be argued as being more "powerful" than a .500 Linebaugh, but we know which one is more effective on game.

[500bfrman]

:popcorn:

[Frank]

Whitworth:
And still makes a smaller hole......

The .454 can be argued as being more "powerful" than a .500 Linebaugh, but we know which one is more effective on game.

With the 45-70 you're talking rifle cartridge, slower powders and higher velocity. Try pushing a 400 grn boolit 1400 fps out of a Linebaugh and brass will be sticking. Now shoot a 400 grn boolit at 1875 fps in the 45-70 and the brass falls out. It's so clean it looks like nothing happened. Higher velocity makes long shots more realistic. So what you have with the 45-70 BFR isn't 'comic-book proportions', but a revolver that shoots like a rifle and handles like a pistol. [smilie=1:

[44man]

44man:
On a power level, the 45-70 is a step up from the pistol caliber.
Talking RECOIL, Frank.
However, since you bring it up, the .475 just hits harder until you make the 45-70 boolits expand----but I still place my money on the .475.
The good thing about the 45-70 is that it runs at a pretty low pressure compared to a .454.

[Frank]

44man:
Talking RECOIL, Frank.
However, since you bring it up, the .475 just hits harder until you make the 45-70 boolits expand----but I still place my money on the .475.
The good thing about the 45-70 is that it runs at a pretty low pressure compared to a .454.
I know. The small gun hurts more. But now that you mentioned it, does the .475 hit harder that the 45-70? After reading the following testimonials I have to wonder.
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/4570reviews.html

[44man]

44man:
I know. The small gun hurts more. But now that you mentioned it, does the .475 hit harder that the 45-70? After reading the following testimonials I have to wonder.
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/4570reviews.html
I go by what I see in the field and YES, the .475 does something to deer that is hard to believe. They will not run a trail and crash into trees and brush piles. They are just out of it all together and it seems they are blind or stunned so bad they don't know where they are going.
Now of course, distance to the shot changes that too so far shots do not react the same but that is the same with any revolver.
Now those are shots to the same place on deer but shots to other places like high shoulders, both do about the same. It seems I have dropped more deer in their tracks with the .475 though.
Sorry that I can't comment on other, larger animals but I would not fear using my .475 on any animal on earth.
That does not detract from the 45-70 because it also is great.

[Whitworth]

Whitworth:
With the 45-70 you're talking rifle cartridge, slower powders and higher velocity. Try pushing a 400 grn boolit 1400 fps out of a Linebaugh and brass will be sticking. Now shoot a 400 grn boolit at 1875 fps in the 45-70 and the brass falls out. It's so clean it looks like nothing happened. Higher velocity makes long shots more realistic. So what you have with the 45-70 BFR isn't 'comic-book proportions', but a revolver that shoots like a rifle and handles like a pistol. [smilie=1:


Frank, you really seem to be a malcontent. My .475 will shoot 400 grain bullets all day long at 1,400 fps without a single sticky case. That said, I guess you just need to actually do some hunting and you will see what it is we are talking about. I have a D-Max framed revolver in .50 Alaskan that also has comic book proportions. What's your problem?

[44man]

Hey Frank, want to shoot Whitworth's Alaskan? Even I won't shoot it with the Bisley grip until he gets rubber on it. :bigsmyl2:

[Whitworth]

Hey Frank, want to shoot Whitworth's Alaskan? Even I won't shoot it with the Bisley grip until he gets rubber on it. :bigsmyl2:

Yeah, with its comic book proportions it can't really be all that bad......LOL!

[Frank]

Whitworth:
My .475 will shoot 400 grain bullets all day long at 1,400 fps without a single sticky case.
With the .475 I'm getting sticky cases with my current boolit batch that is very hard, 30+ BH. I've had to back down a whole grain, and before that a 400 grn boolit was going 1290 fps. A harder alloy seems to make more pressure because nothing else was changed. It's no big deal, just had to start way low to find it again, and I'm about there. I'm going to bump it up again .3 grns and that's it. .5 more will stick.

[Whitworth]

Whitworth:
With the .475 I'm getting sticky cases with my current boolit batch that is very hard, 30+ BH. I've had to back down a whole grain, and before that a 400 grn boolit was going 1290 fps. A harder alloy seems to make more pressure because nothing else was changed.

I think our 420 runs right at 22 BHN and I've never seen any signs of pressure when we were load developing. How are you getting them so hard? I would think they would be rather brittle at that hardness. We just water drop ours.

[felix]

Frank, slow the powder speed down ONE notch would fix the problem, provided one exists in your inventory. If you are using 4759, it could mean a significant loading change because of the existing granule size. Jim/Whitworth should have advice here, hopefully NOT using any kind of filler? 3031 might be too far away, but if you have some, load a few. ... felix

[Frank]

Felix:
slow the powder speed down ONE notch would fix the problem, provided one exists in your inventory.
Now you're getting intellectual on me. What do you mean one notch?

Whitworth:
How are you getting them so hard?
I dipped a little too much Sb.

[44man]

Yes, too hard can have pressure effects. Even the same style boolit, one with a check and one PB, the one with the check can increase pressure.
I don't go over 25 BHN until fast powders are used like Unique or 231 in the .44.
22 BHN with WD WW's is fine for most shooting and 25 can increase accuracy for target in some revolvers.
Felix is confusing the .475 with the 45-70 but he is still correct.
Harder is not always better once you pass where the boolit takes the rifling.
I hate BHN readings because all you need is a boolit tough enough to resist sizing when seating and take the rifling without skidding past the base band.
A real hard boolit is the same as a jacketed. You need to reduce loads.
I can get along fine with nothing but WW's in all of my guns.

[Frank]

44man:
A real hard boolit is the same as a jacketed. You need to reduce loads.

It's probably going the same speed with less powder. In the 45-70, my 400 grn cast shoots best with 27.5 grns. The jacketed does best with 27.0 grns. So the "notch" is .5 grns. In the .475, the "notch" is 1 grain.

I have 11 Hornady 350 grn RN's on the bench. I'm going to feed them with 50.2 grns of RL-7 and a WLR primer. I like the round headed bullets. They look like a neat row of soldiers with their shaved heads. :mrgreen: