35 Whelen vs 9.3x62 for cast boolits

[Otto]

Trying to decide the re-barreling of a Husqvarna sporter. Use will probably be 98% on paper, substantially with CB. Does the great variety of CB and J-word .35s (particularly light weights) outweigh the availability of high quality 9.3 brass and factory loads (all with quite heavy bullets)? Ballistically it is a standoff. For casual target shooting, rare outings for white-tails, pigs, and plinking, what is your call?

[Blammer]

35 whelen

[357maximum]

35 Whelen

[jblee10]

really don't understand you. Simple answer- availability 35w. Better round 9.3. The diff is minimal. Twist is the ?. Weight of beast might be a factor. Throw the same weight and they won't know the diff. Myself, I'm working on a 1-12 35w for 250gr CBs. Availabililty swayed me. But I'd by a CZ550 in 9.3 and shoot factory if I saw one.

[Lefty]

Both good calibers. Lately I have been shooting a 9.3X57. This is a factory round but not well known here. 9.3 molds are readily available. Brass can be purchased or formed easily from 8X57 brass. It is often interesting to have the only one on the block.

[Bret4207]

Whelen simply because of better selection, easier to find brass, better resale value. The 9.3 is great too, but you did ask for opinions.

Of course there is the 375-06 to consider too....

[Dave Bulla]

I too have a 9.3x57 and love it. There is not a lot of difference between it and the 9.3x62. Maybe 100 to 150fps I think. I've read comparing the x57 to the x62 is like comparing a 308 to a 30.06 or a 358 Win to a 35 Whelen. The x62 brass can be formed from 30.06 cases and they certainly are common enough. I expect the 35W can be formed from something else too but I don't know enough about it to say.

****************

Just did some googling and found the 35 whelen is also formed from 30.06 brass so either one could be readily made. I guess it would come down to bullet availability and do you want something fairly common or something a little different from everyone else. I like to be a little different.

[Mk42gunner]

If you're going to keep the rifle forever, go with whichever caliber you want. If there is a possibility of you ever having to sell it, the .35 Whelen will be easier to sell in the U.S.

While .35 Whelen brass can be made from any ofthe .30-06 based cartridges, these days itis easy to find bags of Remington brass that is properly headstamped, inexpensively.

The 9.3x62 uses heavier bullets in factory loads. With boolits, the choice is yours.

Robert

[JesterGrin_1]

I am sorry so many are soo darn biased. lol. :) But I have to agree 35 Whelen or 358 Winchester another great round.

I just had this one done and letting the builder do some minor tweaks lol. But it is a Marlin XL-7 Action with a Shaw 35 Whelen barrel 1-14 Twist 24 inches long in a Boyd's Thumb Hole stock. :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/Marlin%20XL-7%20build%20to%2035%20Whelen/35Whelen4.jpg

[wsjones]

35 Whelen or another 35 cartridge of your choice (358 Win, 350 Rem Mag). For what you say you're going to use it for, bullet selection plus ability to use handgn bullets for plinking gives it a big edge over the 9.3 calibers. I've got 3 35's and a 9.3x74R and the 35's edge the 9.3 for overall versatility for just a plinking and paper punching round. -WSJ

[67bear]

I've never shot a 9.3 so I can't compare them, but I built a 35 Whelen on a large ring 98 several years ago and couldn't be happier with it.

[9.3X62AL]

If you're expecting "objectivity", don't hold yer breath. :)

I chose the 9.3 x 62 over the 35 Whelen in 2002 because at the time there were more examples being sold in this country in 9.3 x 62 than in 35 Whelen as factory items. The lone Whelen was the Ruger 77 in stainless steel with its butt-ugly hollowed-out black plastic stock......while CZ, Tikka, Sako, and Steyr offered the 9.3mm.

Most factory 35 Whelens are (in my opinion) handicapped by virtue of the 1-16" twist rates they are barrelled with. 250 grainers are about as heavy as one can go in such barrels. Most 9.3mm barrels are pitched at 3 turns/meter, or about 1-13.1". This twist enables use of 286 grain bullets very well in both the 57mm and 62mm case length. Newer (post-2005) CZ-550s are available with 4 turns/meter twists (about 1-9.75") in order to accomodate 320 grain behemoths made by a few esoteric bulletsmiths. I suspect recoil impulse on one end is about the same as on the other.

In terms of actual game-effectiveness, I don't think either one has much on the other. "Componentry" for the 35 Whelen is much less an issue than for 9.3--The Mauser 9.3 has a wider head diameter (.480" vs. .473") that shows up when 30-06 or 35 Whelen cases are fire-formed to fit the Mauser. The shoulder must also be blown forward about 1/10" on the 9.3 x 62 from the Whelen or 30-06. If I were to choose today between the two calibers......it would be a lot harder to select one! Those Rem 700 CDLs in 35W would get my attention, for certain. The availability of revolver bullets for loading the Whelen has always been one of its great advantages, but I've used 9mm Makarov bullets (90 grain Hornady XTP) in this same way in my 9.3 rifle. They are reasonably accurate, and JACK UP jackrabbits right smartly. One might expect that from a bullet launched at 3X its intended velocity envelope. Technicolor and HD!

As a cast boolit caliber, I can only say good things about my CZ-550. It is an honest 1.25-1.5 MOA rifle with the 270 grainer I cobbled up on Mountain Molds' software. Be aware that mouldmakers vary on which gas check they adapt their 9.3mm moulds for. MM uses .375" checks, while others use 35 caliber checks.

[Tracy]

I built a .35 Whelen on a Mauser '98 about 12 years ago, and have been very happy with it. I shoot 358009s and a variety of cast pistol boolits in it, not to mention the occasional 158 JHP. I have never owned a .35 Whelen headstamped case in my life; I make them from .270 range pickups (I have a few .30/06s so can't bring myself to use 06 brass).
Paco Kelly writes about having a 9.3x62 on a Mauser when he lived in Africa, then building a replacement in .35 Whelen when he returned to the states, for the same performance and the ability to shoot pistol bullets in it.
He also writes about killing an elephant with a frontal brain shot using a cast 280 grain roundnose, similar to the '009, with the 9.3.

[NHlever]

Here is another vote for the .35 Whelen just because there is so much more available for it, brass is so easy to make, or buy, and the 35 caliber rifles in general are just so nice to work with using cast bullets. On the other hand I can sure understand the draw of the 9.3. It has such a colorful history in Africa, and other places, and it inspires great confidence in those that have real experience with it. Either will be a fun project.

[jethunter]

I looked at the same choices a couple years back and decided to go with the 9.3x62. I'd do it again. Brass is readily available and not expensive or you can make it easily from 30-06. NOE and others make moulds. Lots of regular j-word stuff around too, not a great deal different than the .35 caliber bullet selection from what I've seen. One place the 35 whelen might have the advantage locally is availability of factory ammo, but if you're reloading anyway then that isn't a consideration.

[Larry Gibson]

Does the great variety of CB and J-word .35s (particularly light weights) outweigh the availability of high quality 9.3 brass and factory loads (all with quite heavy bullets)?

With your objective at; "Use will probably be 98% on paper, substantially with CB" the above statement should be a "no brainer". With the 35 Whelen you have a plethora of cast bullets available including all the .357 pitol bullets for plinking/small game. That is not only those you cast yourself but all the commercial cast bullets potentially available. So, if that versatility in cast bullet availability is what you may want then the 35 Whelen is the "no brainer" choice. The 9.3 is a fine cartridge and I do not disparage it at all but the .35 Whelen would be my own choice for the reasons mentioned.

Larry Gibson

[Nobade]

And let's not forget you can paper patch 35 cal. boolits to shoot in your 9.3 at high speeds...

-Nobade

[Bullshop]

""Of course there is the 375-06 to consider too....''
Well at least two of us think so. 35 Whelen good - 375 Whelen better

""The x62 brass can be formed from 30.06 ""
On this I have to disagree at least to a point. Its the same issue I have making 6.5 sweed from 06 brass. Its not a good fit. The cases will bulge and it scares me to think of using them for full power loads. Moderate cast loads I am OK with but no full power loads for me using 06 brass for either cartridge 6.5 Sweed or 9.3x62. The 9.3x 57 would be a different story.

[shredder]

""Of course there is the 375-06 to consider too....''
Well at least two of us think so. 35 Whelen good - 375 Whelen better

""The x62 brass can be formed from 30.06 ""
On this I have to disagree at least to a point. Its the same issue I have making 6.5 sweed from 06 brass. Its not a good fit. The cases will bulge and it scares me to think of using them for full power loads. Moderate cast loads I am OK with but no full power loads for me using 06 brass for either cartridge 6.5 Sweed or 9.3x62. The 9.3x 57 would be a different story.

I am with you. I have experienced out of spec cases for the 6.5x55 from remington with the standard '06 head diameter. They do not feed correctly from my Mauser 96. I kept wondering why the magazine would occasionally allow rounds to spring out spontaneously, causing a jam by having the round get ahead of the extractor or even having a couple of rounds get airborne after cycling the bolt on a full magazine,and that was it. The case head diameter of the basic '06 brass is too small for proper function in the 6.5x55. You are correct about the bulging brass as well. Case head diameter should be kept to the european, larger specs for best (safest) function.

I discarded those cases after crushing each with pliers and vowed to only buy european spec 6.5x55 cases. Privi brass seems available, as is sellier and bellot for reasonable prices.

[Nobade]

""Of course there is the 375-06 to consider too....''
Well at least two of us think so. 35 Whelen good - 375 Whelen better

""The x62 brass can be formed from 30.06 ""
On this I have to disagree at least to a point. Its the same issue I have making 6.5 sweed from 06 brass. Its not a good fit. The cases will bulge and it scares me to think of using them for full power loads. Moderate cast loads I am OK with but no full power loads for me using 06 brass for either cartridge 6.5 Sweed or 9.3x62. The 9.3x 57 would be a different story.

Looking at Brownell's web site this morning I noticed 9,3X62 Lapua brass is some of the only ones they have right now.

Sometimes it pays off to shoot something not so popular

I'm with you on the 375-06! One of those is on my to do list eventually. And shoot 9,3mm PP boolits in it!

-Nobade

[Uncle Grinch]

The real question is... "which one do you "really" want? Do you want to have many choices or a limited field to choose from; is investmet expense an issue; do you want something that most every other shooter has or can readily get?

Or, are you like me and decided on the 9.3x62 due to the "glamour and history" and the desire to have something that is "different" than the next guy's rifle?
After the initial expense and the quest for components, there's not much difference, especially when shooting paper.

[JesterGrin_1]

The real question is... "which one do you "really" want? Do you want to have many choices or a limited field to choose from; is investmet expense an issue; do you want something that most every other shooter has or can readily get?

Or, are you like me and decided on the 9.3x62 due to the "glamour and history" and the desire to have something that is "different" than the next guy's rifle?
After the initial expense and the quest for components, there's not much difference, especially when shooting paper.

I think the 35 Whelen is pretty darn different as in not the Norm or not even in the neighborhood of Norm lol. At least in South TEXAS.

[texasnative46]

to ALL,

Either the 9.3x62 or .35Whelen can be easily & SAFELY made from 30.06 brass BUT if you want to shoot a 270grain JSP or SOLID, I would pick the 9.3x62.
Otoh, the .35Whelen is easier to buy "off the shelf" and has BETTER sectional density than the 9.3x62 IF that's important to you. Furthermore, the .35Whelen, with its longer neck, is better to reload.

As for me, I'm seeking a LEFT-HAND, controlled-feed, action to make into a .375Ackley Improved with a Shilen barrel.
(I'm planning a trip to Africa in July-September 2015 & that's the rifle that will "travel". - I will take ammo in 250GR cast loads, 270GR JSP & 300GR solids for the rifle.)
ONE of the things that I like about the .375 is that it does VERY well for WT & elk with CB and is "stout enough" with heavy loads/bullets for anything that walks on Earth.

BTW, I have a very nice (read seldom used) set of RCBS dies for .35Whelen that I would like to trade with someone for .375IMP dies.

yours, tn46

[texasnative46]

To All,

Reference the difference between .35 Whelen & 9.3x62mm, IF you are planning to ever go to Africa (OR I've been told to some European nations) to hunt, the 9.3 is THE rifle to have there for larger game, unless you want to go BIGGER & > .40 caliber.

yours, tn46

[warboar_21]

really don't understand you. Simple answer- availability 35w. Better round 9.3. The diff is minimal. Twist is the ?. Weight of beast might be a factor. Throw the same weight and they won't know the diff. Myself, I'm working on a 1-12 35w for 250gr CBs. Availabililty swayed me. But I'd by a CZ550 in 9.3 and shoot factory if I saw one.

Buds Guns has a CZ550FS in 9.3x62 right now. If you are looking that is.

I bought one in 6.5x55 and haven't regretted it one bit

[texasnative46]

To All,

I just bought a Remington Model 760 pump-rifle that was converted from .30-06 to 9.3x62mm by JES, courtesy of a tip from one of our Cast Boolit forum members.

I was also lucky enough to get a near mint 2.75X Redfield scope from one of our other GREAT forum members & found a suitable set of NOS Redfield rings on ebay.com (CHEAP) to suit the rifle.
(This rifle/scope combination is my birthday present to me, for the 2017 Africa hunt.)

Now, if I could just find a suitable boolit mold to suit the 760 in 250-280 grains, I'd be literally "loaded for bear", as well as leopard, plains game & Cape Buffalo.
(I have been ordered to provide a large "spotted kitty" pelt to drape over the back of the couch in the den, by "she who must be obeyed". - She is NOT nearly as wild about having a Cape Buff glowering down from the den's wall!!!!)

Note: I have been emailing for a spell with a "home missionary" to the Tinglit people from our church in AK who recently did "The Texas Heart Shot" on a caribou with a 280 grain GCCB @ 2200FPS out of a 9.3x62 Husky. - Went in near the base of the tail, exited out of the front of the chest & went down like he had been poll-axed. = GYD, 2 steps later, Mack swears.

Btw, at least here in TX there are lots of European used BA rifles with decent scopes in 9.3x57mm & in 9.3x62mm AT LOW PRICES (for the quality that they demonstrably are) in the gun-shows.
(At the last big San Antonio show there was a vendor who started out Saturday AM with at least 30-40 rifles in those chamberings, as well as 8x57mm.)

yours, tex

[JesterGrin_1]

Yes a popular mold maker here on the forum makes a boolit that looks just like the 358009 except it is for the 9.3. :)

Sorry I can not help as I have the little 35 Whelen Ackley Improved. :)

[paul h]

For a bullet caster and handloader the 35 whelen makes the most sense in regards to available bullet molds, commercial cast bullets, commercial jacketed bullets and published load data.

For a factory rifle and factory ammo standpoint, the 9.3X62 is a more practical choice. Then again if factory offerings were the driving force I'd give serious consideration to the 338 win mag and 375 H&H. And while yes the 338 and 375 have more recoil, I've had enough time behind a 35 whelen, 350 rem mag, 350 Rigby, 338 and 375 to say their recoil is all in the same ball park. I.e. if you can handle one, you can handle all.

Due to mold availability I'd have to say the 35 whelen is IMHO the most versatile cast bullet chambering and it can literally be loaded for mice to moose. I haven't tried any of the sub 158 gr cast bullets (will have to add to my loads to try list) but a 158 cast bullet at 1200-1700 fps is a great small game and range load that is economical to shoot and easy on the shoulder and ears. Going up to 200 gr at 1800-2000 fps provides a nice close range dear and coyote load. I haven't taken game with my 358009, but have little doubt leaving the muzzle at ~2000 fps It's a fully capable big game round to reasonable ranges.

[Silver Hand]

I have not owned a .35 Whelen but it was the cartridge that influenced my choice at the time, about July 1968 or was it 1969. I was an apprentice for a gunsmith who built beautiful custom rifles and did his blueing to a standard that was hard to match, as an example he would compare a top of the line Sako rifle side by side at the time of sale to his finished product and customers loved it.
To the point, Consider the twist rate of the barrel for the weight of boolits you intend to shoot most often.
I chose a 1-16 twist rate in a 350 Rem. Mag. cartridge. I fell in love with the short throw of the bolt and that short fat belted case. My consideration was hunting and using those large 250 grain pills when I finally got out West. Several whitetails were taken in Vermont and in NY State
but my dream came true running bear with dogs and hunting Elk here in Oregon.
Amazing results, having had so many one shot kills on large animals.
I hope hunting does not offend you but you brought back some great memories with just the mention of the .35 Whelen.
The .350 Rem. cartridge with J. bullets, Speer 250 grain psp will maintain one hole groups at 100 yards and not just once in a wile, consistently and I have shot under one inch with cast boolits at 100 yards a time or two.
Pistol weight pills are not accurate, even using k pock or fillers to keep the powder against the primer I am hard pressed to hit a can at 100 yard, think twist rate once you decide!
Hope it becomes a rifle you will enjoy for your lifetime as I did mine.
Silver Hand

[Norske]

Texasnative46 has a point that can apply to NA big game as well as Africa. Factory loads for the 9.3's use tougher bullets than what's in most factory 35's. The 9.3's were designed to be affordable African rifles, and they have a faster twist rate (stabilize longer bullets). Most 35's have a 1 in 16" twist (my BLR 358 has a 1 in 10"), the 9.3's twist rates are standardized around 1 in 14". The difference isn't very important for game up through black bear, but if I were to hunt grizzly, moose, or bison, I'd want the extra penetration of the tougher 9.3 bullets.

[texasnative46]

Norske,

A 280 grain GCCB in front of 50 grains of Varget is a brilliant black bear/deer/big hog/moose load for the 9.3x62mm. - About 2150FPS

I see no real reason for using expensive JHP, when moderate CB handloads are excellent/clean killers on such game animals & won't "kick your head off".

yours, tex

[9.3X62AL]

90% of my 9.3 x 62 shooting gets done with cast bullets, my 270 grain flatnose at 1750-1800 FPS. Such a load will knock deer on their natural ASpirationS with a well-placed shot at any range I am likely to find one in the coastal sage scrub and mixed conifers that most of my venison-chasing happens within.

I have shot less and less of the 286 grain j-words at 2400 FPS as time goes on. I do prefer the 250 grain spitzers like the Nosler Ballistic Tip or its evolved ideations, which get to about 2625-2650 FPS. These track very closely with the 30-06/180 grain spitzer loadings--same velocity bracket, similar bC, and similar trajectories to 400 yards. The 30-06/180 grain loading has been a do-everything standard for close to a century in the game fields, and justifiably so. It's good company to be in. The 9.3 x 62 just hits with half-again more energy at any range.

Would that same deer I'm discussing have a preference between the 35W and the 9.3 x 62M? Only a "Choice C"--none of the above. Would I opt today for a 9.3 x 62 over the 35 Whelen? Not as readily as I did in 2002. Today, I would scrounge up a 30-06 and send it to JES Reboring for re-cutting to 35 Whelen, providing I could get a 1-12" twist rate with that cutting process. Short of that, it would still be a 9.3 x 62.

[texasnative46]

9.3x62AL,

Inasmuch as I have Model 760 Remington pump-rifles (right now) in .244 Rem, .300 Savage, .30-06 & 9.3x62 Mauser, I "reserve" the 9.3x62 for BIGGER game than WT/HOGS.
(Fwiw, my circa 1898 ".30-40 Krag equivalent GCCB load" does a fine job in .300 Savage & .30-06 rifles on WT/hogs. = I see no good reason for a heavier load, as it kills cleanly out to all of the typical hunting ranges in our area of Texas)

I suspect that in Moldova/Ukraine this Winter that Russian boar, Red Deer & wolves will fall to my "pet gccb load" BUT when I go to Africa in the Fall of 2017 I'll try to take the Cape Buff for the den wall with the standard "factory" 286 grain load. = Buffs "take considerable killing" & you certainly don't want to just wound one.
(The famous big-game hunter & author, Robert C. Ruark saw several Cape Buffalo wounded & which were NOT "stopped" quickly by 2 shots from a LARGE-BORE double-rifle, in the hands of a Professional Hunter, like Henry Selby.)

yours, tex

[9.3X62AL]

Bears were the prime motivator for the purchase of the CZ-550 in 9.3 x 62. More specifically, an encounter with a black bear that got the bulge and Mrs. 9.3 and I while berry-picking in the local mountains in Summer 2002. When you can smell them--hear their CHUFF CHUFF CHUFF a few yards off--but can't see them, just a Ruger Redhawk to stand behind as you retreat did not seem like much of a deterrent. These days, when Marie and I go berry-picking I sling up the 9.3, and it has 286 NosParts on board with enough IMR 4320 to prompt about 2400 FPS. So, YES--there are a few nasty critters left in California, and not all of them walk on 2 legs and get early releases from prison.

[texasnative46]

9.3x62AL,

I hear that you folks from "The People's Republik of Kalifornication" are having trouble with some aggressive Pumas too??
(IF I was going berry picking in CA, I might well pack along my 12-gauge riot-gun & loaded with buckshot.)

yours, tex

[9.3X62AL]

HA! Funny you should mention the Big Kitties......Marie and I were out around Chiriaco Summit earlier this year when she kicked up a cougar about 25 yards from where she was running her metal detector. She came back to the truck (where I was having a cold drink) with metal detector in one hand--P228 in her other hand--and looking back over her shoulder a LOT more that she was looking forward, and not wasting any time doing this.

Houston, I think we have a problem.

"AY, PI---E GATO GRANDE!!" were her first breathless words, followed by RAPID Spanish for about 25-30 more seconds. My "habla Espanol" batting average runs about .350-.400, and when it gets fastballed my comprehension shrinks, but I discerned that a large cat took off and hauled pagodas while she was looking for rocks and whatever else she finds with the detector......and that she was less than amused. She returned to the un-subtitled version of events in about a half-minute, though still unamused. I had the deep sagacity to NOT point out how her accompaniments outdoors attracted so many toothy critters in such close quarters since we met in 2000. I had the Mini-14 along, loaded with soft-point 55 grainers, so if the cat got froggy we could settle his hash most ricky-tick.
In fairness to both critters, we WERE in their neighborhoods. As long as they mind their manners, all will be well. They want to chew on us for some reason, IT'S ON. I have long-standing agreements with bears and cougars, having seen my share of both while hunting for 50+ years. I don't go onto their turf to mess with them--they don't come onto my turf to mess with me. Step outside those rubrics, it won't go well for them.

[texasnative46]

9.3x62AL,

WELL UNDERSTOOD.

Fwiw, I never go out & about on our family farm up in NE Texas without a loaded shotgun. = All manner of toothy critters there, including some REALLY NASTY-tempered feral hogs.
(My nearest neighbor was "treed" all afternoon by a group of them, until his adult son came looking for him in a truck.)

yours, tex

[USSRSNPR]

I too am of the Whelen crowd. Built one on a Chilean Mauser and I love it! This year I got a NOE 36-280-sp mold and while I'm still working on loads, it seems to work very well with R-15.

[swheeler]

Today, I would scrounge up a 30-06 and send it to JES Reboring for re-cutting to 35 Whelen, providing I could get a 1-12" twist rate with that cutting process.

Deputy Al why the 1;12 instead of the old standard 1;14 twist for the 35 Whelen? I'm guessing because of the Cali ban on lead projos making your choice longer for same weight mono style?