41 special

[brettb75]

Anybody have any good loads in 41 special. I want a good light load for my 41. Glynn41 gave me some awesome hollow points that shot great with 6.5 grains of unique, but I want a real pussycat load to plink around with. Ive tried the lee 195 grain bullet and it shot 5-7 inch groups in a ransom rest no joke. But those 41 hollow points shot .775 for 6 shots at 25 yards on the same day and same setup as the lee 195. Thanks for any help

[Rocky Raab]

Crank up your Firefox (IE will scramble my pages) and read this: 41 Special (http://www.reloadingroom.com/index_files/41%20Special.htm)

[BerdanIII]

From: Shoot a 41 Special, D. Ward, Handloader's Digest, 17th Ed., 1997:

177-gr. NEI Hollowpoint
Bullseye - 4.7 - 854 fps
Bullseye - 5.5 - 975
AA5 - 5.5 - 769
195-gr. NEI
Bullseye - 4.5 - 807 fps
Unique - 6.5 - 911
AA5 - 6.0 - 751
215-gr. RCBS
Bullseye - 5.0 - 884 fps
AA2 - 5.0 - 843

How about using powder charges from .41 Long Colt Data?

From: Lyman No. 38

196-gr. Lyman 386177
Bullseye - 3.0 - 700 fps
Unique - 5.0 - 890 est.
200-gr. Lyman 386178
Bullseye - 3.0 - 700 fps est.
Unique - 5.0 - 880 est.

From: Handloading the Forgotten .41, Handloader #156, March - April 1992
The author tried 160-gr., 195-gr., 200-gr., and 205-gr. cast bullets in the .41 Long Colt and got the best accuracy for all bullets with 3.5 grains of Bullseye.

[Rocky Raab]

Home from SHOT and have access to my logs again.

With cast 215 SWC, the following are good to great loads:

5.0 W231 800 fps

5.0 Clays 900 fps

7.5 Acc#5 900 fps

5.5 Amer Select 900 fps

6.5 Universal Clays 1000 fps

9.5 BlueDot 1100 fps

I have pet loads with other powders but they are either discontinued or have been re-formulated from the batches I use. No sense listing those.

[brettb75]

Thanks guys, i never thought about looking at 41 long colt data that should work good.

[PacMan]

Not sure where the .41 special lands as far as Blue Dot but Alliant has a warning out not to use Blue Dot in the .41 mag. I found the warning a couple days ago and cannot find it now.
Dwight

[Rocky Raab]

ATK has not tested loads in the 41 Special because it is a wildcat. While I have used Blue Dot in mine, I won't in the future.

[Good Cheer]

If the 41 Special is to make use of a reduced case volume...why not just seat the boolit deeper in the mag case instead of to where the mold manufacturer put a crimp groove?

[Rocky Raab]

Or the flip side of that argument: If you are going to take the trouble to seat bullets extra deep just to get a better case volume ratio, why not just shorten the case?

[missionary5155]

Greetings
You can always just load a .411- .413 RB with 5 grains of Unique. Shoots accurate enough in all my 41´s out to 25 yards. I like it as a daily load in a Taurus Titanium when out woods walking or kayaking. 3 of those with 2 210 grainers for tougher beasties.
With the RB smear some lube on the RB´s before loading. A light roll crimp holds them fine.
If that recoils too much just keep dropping back o the Unique till one sticks in the barrel. But 5 grains Unique in a revolver is hardly nothing.

[brettb75]

I really really like unique in my larger revolvers, 44 spec and 41 special. It shoots great. Anywhere from 6.5 - 7.4 in 44 spec with 240 grain bullets and 5-6 grains in a 41 special with 200 - 220 grain bullets.

[sledgehammer]

My Blackhawk likes 3.5gr of TrailBoss under a Lee 200gr TL. My 12 year old stepdaughter could shoot it all day. I also load the same boolit over 6.4gr of Unique, although it's a little stiffer load than the TB powder. I use mag brass trimmed to length.

[targetshootr]

What kind of gun is it. Pics please.

[Rocky Raab]

Peecher? okeeeee-doke!

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c170/RockyRaab/IMG_0244.jpg

[peerlesscowboy]

If the 41 Special is to make use of a reduced case volume...why not just seat the boolit deeper in the mag case instead of to where the mold manufacturer put a crimp groove?
Isn't the purpose of the .41 Special to allow one to build it on an old 3 screw model Ruger Blackhawk .357mag which had a smaller frame than current models or larger calibers?

John C. Saubak

[Shooter6br]

I use "41 Special" loads in full lenght cases in my 657. I feel that the shorter 41 cases are better in a single action revolver. I find 32 Long cases eject easier than the longer 327 Fed cases .in my Blackhawk (Duh). Would be nice if someone would make a factory K frame size 41 special or even a j size frame. Guess no market for it. Just a thought

[NHlever]

Peecher? okeeeee-doke!



I respect your experience, and enjoy reading what you write, but making fun of folks around you is not very becoming, and drops my estimation of who I thought you were some. Sorry, but I just couldn't let it pass, and I certainly don't want to make it personal.

[Rocky Raab]

Making fun of whom? and how?

[NHlever]

Rocky, my apologies if there wasn't some sarcasm in that note. You had poked fun at the use of the "Boolit" spelling in this forum, and had questioned whether we should be spelling other words like pictures differently too. Since you had used that word as an example when you were poking fun at the Boolit thing, I assumed that you were still on that track when you replied with your picture. Kind of hard for us to figure out what your meaninig is when you use a word one day to poke fun, and another day you use the word spelled the same way innocently.................. sorry if that assumption was wrong. :?

[Rocky Raab]

I see what you mean now. While I did associate "peecher" with picture because of that earlier comment, I did not use it here in a derisive way. Just as most of you aren't slack-jawed mouth-breathers because you use "boolit".

However, it does occur to me that the reasoning behind "boolit" is flawed. If you intend "boolit" to differentiate between cast and jacketed, then why the heck do you call the site "Cast Boolits?" If boolit means cast bullet, why add the modifier? Department of Redundant Redundancy Department?

Nor can it be to to save typing, because cast boolits takes exactly as long to type as cast bullets. I still think it's silly.

[NHlever]

Thanks for clearing up the lack of evil intent. After 50 years of casting bullets, boolits doesn't just roll off my tongue either. :D

[Golfswithwolves]

Isn't the purpose of the .41 Special to allow one to build it on an old 3 screw model Ruger Blackhawk .357mag which had a smaller frame than current models or larger calibers?

John C. Saubak

Mr. Peerlesscowboy- Your thought is close, but not quite right. You could if you choose also chamber the old Ruger .357 to .41 Magnum as the length of the two cartridges is the same; you don't require the added shortness of a Special-length cartridge (If I recall correctly, Mr. Clements is one gunsmith who does this .41 Magnum conversion work). Rather, the idea of the .41 Special is to gain the larger diameter bullet while retaining the smaller and easier to handle revolver size such as is found in the old Ruger .357 or other revolvers which have also been converted to this weird caliber. I did the exact conversion you suggest though, and I find that my .41 Special is an accurate and easy-recoiling little shooter that still does almost any work that a person could ask a revolver to do. Is there any compelling reason not to simply use the .357 Magnum or .44 Special or .45 Colt? Not really, except that my revolver is kind of unique and therefore is EXTRA fun.

[Shooter6br]

I am at a loss. i dont get it . maybe thats better. I THINK ALMOST EVERYONE ON THE SITE ARE GREAT MEN( WOMEN ALSO) . Sorry for the caps. Great info and great people who share their experiences and knowledge.

[Shooter6br]

i like 41 speciola loads in my 657. I load lite since paper doesnt required a lot of stopping power. That's just me. Dont hunt much anymore. Use to shoot woodchucks ,but time and lack of farms near me has stopped that. Had some 500-600 yrd kills so if was fun, Rick

[NHlever]

Mr. Peerlesscowboy- Your thought is close, but not quite right. You could if you choose also chamber the old Ruger .357 to .41 Magnum as the length of the two cartridges is the same; you don't require the added shortness of a Special-length cartridge (If I recall correctly, Mr. Clements is one gunsmith who does this .41 Magnum conversion work). Rather, the idea of the .41 Special is to gain the larger diameter bullet while retaining the smaller and easier to handle revolver size such as is found in the old Ruger .357 or other revolvers which have also been converted to this weird caliber. I did the exact conversion you suggest though, and I find that my .41 Special is an accurate and easy-recoiling little shooter that still does almost any work that a person could ask a revolver to do. Is there any compelling reason not to simply use the .357 Magnum or .44 Special or .45 Colt? Not really, except that my revolver is kind of unique and therefore is EXTRA fun.

I sure agree with this reasoning. I like handy "packing" guns, and I carried an old model .41 Mag. Ruger for many years because it was so much lighter, and handier than the .44 magnums, and also shot better than the poorly dimensioned .45 Colts of that time. I have one of the new Ruger Flattop .44 Specials, but it is still a quarter pound heavier than my .45 Colt full sized Blackhawk so I'm headed to look at a few 3 screw Blackhawks today for possible conversion. There was a thin rumor that Ruger would introduce a "light weight" .44 Special, but since that would require a new and expensive die casting, I don't expect it any time soon. A 45-50 oz. Special really isn't achieving the goal of having one. My old 3 Screw .357 Mag, is also lighter than my new midsized .44 Special without the larger holes. Too bad the grip frames won't interchange. All steel is good to talk about, and good to look at, but not so good to carry around all day as even staunch all steel supporters like Brian Pearce have found.

[targetshootr]

[QUOTE=Rocky Raab;1161547]Peecher? okeeeee-doke!

[IMG]http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c170/RockyRaab/IMG_0244.jpg[/MG][QUOTE]

Sweet. Looks like a Clements front sight. And an om flat top to boot. I have a nice big box of 41 spl Starline loaded and ready to go and have no gun to use them in, at least for a couple of more months. It'll be a GP 100 with a 4" Python barrel. CANNOT WAIT TO SEE IT.

[Rocky Raab]

If it is from Clements, you will be more than happy. That's who did mine, way back when he was almost unknown and still had his shop in Mississippi. His wait time back then was two weeks!

[GLL]

Rocky:

Although we disagree on the merits/wisdom of loading the .38 Special into the 1050fps range for my .38/44 Outdoorsman we certainly do agree on fine revolvers ! :) :)

Beautiful !

Jerry

http://www.fototime.com/2EDB911CF7E2A24/standard.jpg

[Rocky Raab]

GLL, we have no disagreement about loading 38s to that speed - for THAT gun and that gun ONLY (we aren't discussing 38s in a 357 revolver). My only worry is guys seeing those loads and thinking they must be fine in ANY 38.

My Clements? Ohhhhhhhh yeah. (I still can't figure how he gets the Ruger lettering off the frame.)

[NHlever]

I wonder if Clements uses a TIG welder to fill in that lettering, and then repolishes it. It does seem like a lot of metal to remove any other way. I have seen some very skilled welders do some pretty nice restoration work on guns that had "extra" screw holes, etc.

That is a really nice gun you have there!

[peerlesscowboy]

Mr. Peerlesscowboy- Your thought is close, but not quite right. You could if you choose also chamber the old Ruger .357 to .41 Magnum as the length of the two cartridges is the same; you don't require the added shortness of a Special-length cartridge (If I recall correctly, Mr. Clements is one gunsmith who does this .41 Magnum conversion work). --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rather, the idea of the .41 Special is to gain the larger diameter bullet while retaining the smaller and easier to handle revolver size such as is found in the old Ruger .357 or other revolvers which have also been converted to this weird caliber.
This seems contradictory :confused: At first you seem to be saying that Mr. Clements will convert an old model (three screw) .357 Blackhawk to .41 magnum (in spite of the fact that the factory old model .41 mag is on a larger frame than the old model .357 mag)?
On the second.......you seem to be saying the same thing that I posted :?:

John C. Saubak

[targetshootr]

If it is from Clements, you will be more than happy. That's who did mine, way back when he was almost unknown and still had his shop in Mississippi. His wait time back then was two weeks!

My GP is coming from Andy Horvath. Clements has a 586 he's turning into a 41 spl but after a year or so I lose interest. He did a couple of other guns when he was in Miss.

[targetshootr]

I wonder if Clements uses a TIG welder to fill in that lettering, and then repolishes it. It does seem like a lot of metal to remove any other way. I have seen some very skilled welders do some pretty nice restoration work on guns that had "extra" screw holes, etc.

I believe they polish or mill the lettering off a gun like that. If they welded it up, the bluing would be noticably different in that area... unless they annealed the receiver and heat treat it again which is probably too much trouble.

[Good Cheer]

Isn't the purpose of the .41 Special to allow one to build it on an old 3 screw model Ruger Blackhawk .357mag which had a smaller frame than current models or larger calibers?

John C. Saubak

John,
I don't know. All I ever read about the 41 Special was to make a more accurate load, hence my question. Is there an advantage to the old model in a 41 Special over the new model in a 41 Mag? The new model with enough metal hogged out of it to step up from 357 to 41 seems to have the right balance. But, no doubt that really is a matter of personal preference so maybe folks want the an old model made a little lighter. One of the very best feeling revolvers I ever handled was a 4 5/8" Colt SAA in 38-40 that I bought my father to go with his '73 lever action, so maybe that's an analog to the old model Ruger in 41.

[Rocky Raab]

In my case, I came into possession of a wrecked and ruined old model 357 flattop, and also had a hankering for a 41 Special because I don't like "mangleums" of any sort. The two ideas coalesced nicely. The original flattop fits my hand like it grew there, and I thought the cartridge must be a winner.

As it turns out, the 41 Special is a MUCH more tractable round that a down-loaded 41 Mangleum. In fact, I haven't yet been able to find a BAD load for it - and I've tried!

[Golfswithwolves]

Mr. peerlesscowboy- Sorry to be confusing in my post. What Rocky Raab just said about the niceness of the cartridge is the reason for the .41 Special. The fact that the Special fits into the old model .357 conversion is a nice extra but is not the reason for its existance, as the .41 Magnum also can fit into an old model .357 conversion.

[peerlesscowboy]

Mr. peerlesscowboy- Sorry to be confusing in my post. What Rocky Raab just said about the niceness of the cartridge is the reason for the .41 Special. The fact that the Special fits into the old model .357 conversion is a nice extra but is not the reason for its existance, as the .41 Magnum also can fit into an old model .357 conversion.
I'm sure that the .44 magnum would fit in an old model .357 conversion also...........but would it be wise?

[Mitch1352]

I have Mr. Clements building a .41 Spl out of an OM Blackhawk. I have 3 others from him (2 .44 Spls and an OM .357 that my son sent to him) and his work is peerless. All I need is brass and dies when it gets here and I will be off and running.

[Rocky Raab]

I've been told that Hornady 41 Mag dies work as-is. I had to have a bit of the seating die machined off at the bottom so the shorter case could reach the crimp shoulder. Cost me ten bucks at a machine shop.

There's a guy who had a bunch of properly headstamped brass made up for the 41 Special, but I don't have his name in front of me at the moment. Or you can trim Maggie brass down to a 1.16" length and be good to go. If enough of us pester them, Starline will eventually cave in and make it. Do call them and request they start!

[Golfswithwolves]

Mr. Raab- I am more frugal than you (wife says "cheap"). I just used a file on the bottom of my RCBS .41 Magnum seating die instead of having a machinist do the shortening work. They should just make these dies as .41 Special, as the magnum loads can be loaded with either length of seating die.:CastBoolitsisbest:

[theperfessor]

Didn't I read of someone making GP-100s into 5 shot .41 Specials?

[ddixie884]

Here's mine...................

[targetshootr]

Didn't I read of someone making GP-100s into 5 shot .41 Specials?

Clements is offering them again up to 44 spl.

[RJM52]

There are two factory made .41 Magnums that benefit from .41 Special brass...The Freedom Arms Model 97 and the Taurus Tracker. The cylinders of both are so short one can not even seat a Keith bullet in the normal crimping groove without exceeding max LOA.

I have both guns and bought a bunch of Special brass with the thought of just shooting Specials from both guns...it 1/2 worked.. The Taurus loves .41 Special brass and loads. The 97 however prefers full length Magnum brass... Don't ask me why but the Special loads that I have tried so far were not near as accurate as the Magnum. The Taurus likes either but the FA definitely likes the Magnum brass.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/RJM52/SWenraved57s003.jpg

This was the 6" with the stndard load of 8.0 grains of Unique with a Berry's plated bullet in a Magnum case...velocity from a 4" runs 950.

15 yards, left slow double action, right target fast DA...

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/RJM52/SWenraved57s001.jpg


The FA...

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/RJM52/Single%20Action/FreedomArms061910008.jpg

Bob