Ballistite Smokeless powder

[Faret]

Got this old 1/2 pound can still smells good anybody got any data or a burn rate? What to do with it?

[WineMan]

I wonder if this is the same stuff used in the 2.36" Bazooka rocket? If so it would probably be pretty slow.

Wineman

[BerdanIII]

Is that the Alcan shotgun stuff? If so, there's probably some shotshell data out there that you MIGHT be able to extrapolate (being ever so careful) to peestols. Alcan used to have some pretty huge ads in the older Handloader's Digests; I'll take a look. A photo of the can or details of the label would be a big help. One form of Ballistite was used in Italian 6.5 Carcano service ammunition so the burn rate could be all over the map.

[Faret]

This the Du Pont Shotgun powder it is a green 8oz can saying for shotguns only. It is a square flake powder grey in color.

[jmh54738]

Here you go, Faret, from my 1944 "Complete Guide To Handloading" by Philip Sharpe. "DuPont Ballistite was introduced in 1909 and was still manufactured as of 1937. Square black flakes, width .050, thickness .005. This powder is very similar in formula to Hercules Infallible. Essentially a dense shotgun powder, it can be used in certain revolver cartridges having large bores and straight cases, although it is not generally recommended. It is a square or flake type of powder long popular with shotgun shooters."
To make a connection, I quote, " Infallible can be used much along the lines of Unique, since formula and granulation are nearly identical."
You have some historic powder. Ballistite was actually a Nobel product, produced under license. John

[Faret]

So now what should I load the powder and shoot it and sell the can? I seen one like mine in better shape go for $115.

[jmh54738]

It is up to you, whatever trips your trigger. At a recent gun show, I thought that I would pick up some old powder to shoot up cheaply. I have done this a lot in the past, buying partial cans and obsolete powder for $2 to $4. The joke is on me, now they are $8 to $10.........and the cans are empty and they aren't even old.
John

[Multigunner]

Balistite was formulated by Alfred Nobel as a competitor to Cordite. Its a high Nitroglycerin content double base powder.
I've read that Balistite was used in blank shot shells as a propelling charge for Mortar rounds.

A teenager was badly injured when his friend mistook one of these propellant blanks for a regular shotshell and fired it in a double barrel shotgun. He fired the old shotgun from waist level and a slab of the breech end of the barrel broke away and scewered the young man who was standing behind the shooter and far to his right. The section of barrel was about nine inches long and roughly shaped like a butcher knife.
The piece of steel went through the victim's left arm pinning it to his chest then on deep into the chest just missing the Pulmonary Aorta. The sharp jagged steel was so tightly embedded with many arteries laying against it that the surgeon could not operate till they carefully amputated the left arm near the shoulder. The arm was probably ruined anyway and already nearly severed.
I found this on a documentary about serious fire arms injuries caused by inattention to details , mistakes involving ammunition and such. They also showed a young Civil War reinactor caught by an AD of a field gun while he was ramming home the charge. The video showed him blown across a road. He lost most of both hands.

[BerdanIII]

Looks like you've got it handled.

For the record, Alcan (Baschieri & Pellagri) Super-M Ballistite seems to have been much faster than Red Dot; 20% less Ballistite was used in 12-gauge loads.

12-gauge, 2 ¾" - 1 1/8 oz. shot
17.0 or 20.0 grains Ballistite depending on wad column
21.0 or 23.0 grains of Red Dot

Du Pont's version seems like a powder for very light loads like roundballs in revolver cartridges.

[Iowa Fox]

I have an old uncle now deceased that was a pioneer reloader. When he was approaching 85 years old he decided he was going to reload 45 LC shot loads for use in his 410. I remeber him polishing the chamber for the brass cases and when he needed powder he went in the basement and brought up a can of Ballistite. I have no idea of his recipe but it woked well and he shot a lot of sparrows at the farm with it.

[quack1]

I shot up several cans of Super M Ballistite a lot of years ago. I dont even remember where I got them, but the powder worked good in light 12ga loads. I don't remember the charge, but you didn't need much powder for 1oz of shot. Used some on clay targets and hunted doves with shells that were left. It was an odd looking powder, pale pink, big square flakes if I remember right. Those big flakes jammed up my Lyman powder measure-they got stuck in between the rotor and its housing.

[jmh54738]

I do not believe that it would be correct to compare Alcan Super M Ballistite with Dupont Ballistite. There are from completely different eras, about 50 years apart. Reading directly from the Dupont Ballistite can, the 12 gauge load is from 20 to 26 grains. And no, there is nothing in the literature to suggest that its use is "limited to very light loads like round balls in revolver cartridges". As stated in an earlier post, Philip Sharpe puts it closer to unique and was used in large bore revolver cartridges in addition to shotgun.

[BerdanIII]

jmh54738:

I think the important phrase in Sharpe is "not generally recommended". That tells me you can get into trouble really quick using Ballistite in handgun cartridges.

Sharpe lists one load for Ballistite in his tables, and it's for the .30 Mauser, neither a big bore cartridge nor a straight case. Granted, the load listed is very close to Unique in performance, but one load in one cartridge is a slender thread to depend upon if you're going to extrapolate data. The fact that Sharpe listed no other Ballistite loads in the tables, even for cartridges covered by his caveat, speaks volumes to me.

There are two loads for Infallible in the tables, one for the .30 Luger and one for the .38 Special. Again, the .30 Luger load is very close to Unique, but the 200-gr. .38 Special load shows about 140 fps less velocity with the same pressure (15000 psi) for 4.0 grains of Infallible versus 4.1 grains of Unique. If you want to believe that Infallible is close to Unique, the 20% difference in velocity for 0.1 grain of Infallible should make you wonder.

I personally would want to see Infallible data versus Unique for a fair number of cartridges before deciding whether or not I could extrapolate charge weights for Ballistite and a few more Ballistite loads wouldn't hurt, either. In the absence of any real data, the safe course of action would be to treat Ballistite like a very fast powder, start with light loads and go from there. I'd rather knock a bullet out of the barrel than pick my fingers up from the ground.

[jmh54738]

BerdanIII, We all interpret things differently, since the phrase, "not generally recommended" is in question, I would state that in that era, shotgun powders had not made the crossover into the wide spread use in pistols as they have today. Even in the 1960s there was no data for the usage of shotgun powders in pistols. Rather than assume that a person "would get in trouble real quick", I would understand that this development work had not been done and wouldn't be done for decades. Because you cannot find pistol loads for Ballistite only reinforces what I have stated above, as perhaps 99% of Sharpe's listed loads use Bullseye, Unique, #5 powders in the complete range of calibers. Best comparisons of the burning rate of Ballistite would be from its intended use in shotgun, where the Ballistite can states 20 to 26 grains in 12 ga. Using 40 year old shotgun data, Red Dot is not used beyond 1 1/8 oz loads at 21 grains, Unique's usage peaks at 24-26 grains under plastic wads and 1 1/4 oz shot. Loads using 1 1/2 oz shot all require 30 -34 grains of 4756 or Blue Dot. This gives me a basis upon which conclusions can be drawn, as opposed to drawing conclusions from the lack of data. I agree with you that all shotgun powders are fast, and that safety is the prime consideration.