35 Whelen loads

[GunnyJohn]

Once again seeking the advice of the ENLIGHTENED ONES

I just started playing with my 35 Whelen and boolits. I have gone into some old threads and gained some insight, but didn't see anyone using AA powders. the rifle is very accurate with j-words, and is starting to look good with boolits. It is a 110 savage with an A&B barrel 1in 14 twist. I'm using a lyman 358318 mold that is dropping boolits @255 grns dressed. So far I have used AA5744 34 grns, probably running just over2K according to the book and quick guestimation 1st shot was low and left of the other four that were touching each other @ 50yds. 2nd try was with 45 grns AA2520. 1st 3 shots were within 1 inch then had one flyer (my fault) the final round was clear off to the right, and entered the target at a bit on an angle. Kinda don't understand that one the shot felt good. Has anyone else used these powders? As this is mainly used as an elk rifle I would like to find a load that would be effective out to 200 yds. Possible? Any help is greatly appreciated.

[waksupi]

John, I suspect your rate of fire may have been enough to heat the barrel, causing the flier. You might try sizing the boolit .001 larger.

[GBertolet]

You left some specifics out. Is there a gas check on the bullet? How hard is the alloy? What type of lubricant do you use? What is the diameter of the bullet you are using? Do you weigh the bullets before loading to see if they are consistent? At 2000 + fps, any of these things can make a big difference.

[Dean D.]

I have really good luck with SR4759 in my Whelan. 29.5 gr. behind the 358318 clocked at 1880fps in my rifle and grouped a 5-shot 1.02" @ 50 yards. I've never used AA powder so I am not much help with it.

[Shuz]

GunnyJohn--I use 48g of AA4064 in my 1:12 twist 35 Whelen. Velocity is 2169fps and the accuracy is just a little over an inch at 100yds. My boolit is a 280g Lyman 358009 cast from 3:1 alloy (ww:lino) sized .358 and heat treated to Bhn 28. This load has accounted for 2 bull moose and 1 bull elk down thru the years.

[Ronb]

Ive used AA2520. 46 gr gave the best accuracy at about 2MOA with a 267 gr cast spitzer at 2100fps out of a 20" barrel. I had some fliers though that doubled the group size. Maybe 1 out of 7. I think my 16" twist is hurting me. Increasing it amore than a grain really opened it up. 6-8"
52 gr R15 behing a 240 custom mold reaches 2200 with similar accuracy.
The only MOA load I have found so far is 30 gr 4227 behing my 240. It is going about 1850.

[richhodg66]

GunnyJohn--I use 48g of AA4064 in my 1:12 twist 35 Whelen. Velocity is 2169fps and the accuracy is just a little over an inch at 100yds. My boolit is a 280g Lyman 358009 cast from 3:1 alloy (ww:lino) sized .358 and heat treated to Bhn 28. This load has accounted for 2 bull moose and 1 bull elk down thru the years.


Shuz, what rifle is that you're shooting in? I've been trying that same bullet design in my Remington 700 and haven't had muc luck with it. I haven't checked what the twist in it is, though. I've used IMR 4320 and RL-19 and thus far have yet to get any reasonably decent groups with it.

[felix]

Your stock 700 has 16 twist. You need 14 twist to have confidence at a hunnert for good penetration, anyway, and accuracy with your barrel using that 280 grainer. Verify the 16 twist, though. ... felix

[richhodg66]

It's the stock barrel alright. Guess I'll need to see about a lighter design. Truthfully, with the heavier loads (haven't gotten close to max yet) the rifle kicks pretty hard, maybe a lighter slug isn't a bad thing.

[GunnyJohn]

The boolit is gas checked, I'm using a hodgdon brand stick alox lube, Boolit is sized .358 and is cast from ww ac 358 is the only sizer I have in that range. (May need to increase?) the barrell is an F34 contour A&B Barrel. It's pretty heavy and did'nt feel very warm even after 5 shots. But could be I need to slow down. Appreciate everyones input so far.

[rockrat]

Try a .360" sizer. That may help.

[JesterGrin_1]

.358 sounds a bit small. If you slug your barrel it should be .358 which means for cast you need to go up to .359 or .360. Just a thought. :)

Plus everything I have read says that the 358009 is too heavy for a 1-16 twist. So to go lighter say the 250Gr class down to around 200Gr would be your best bet for the 1-16 twist.

[Shuz]

Shuz, what rifle is that you're shooting in? I've been trying that same bullet design in my Remington 700 and haven't had muc luck with it. I haven't checked what the twist in it is, though. I've used IMR 4320 and RL-19 and thus far have yet to get any reasonably decent groups with it.

My rifle is a Rem 700, but it has a Douglass 1:12 twist bbl.
At one time, I also had a Rem Classic 700 in .35 Whelen and it had a 1:16 twist and it would NOT stabilize the 358009.
Recently, I picked up another Rem 700, not a Classic, but still a factory 700 and it is chambered for the .35 Whelen. According to the current literature from Remington, it is supposed to have a 1:16 twist also. When the weather out here turns for the better, I will check the 358009 out in this one. Some guys have reported good results with the 1:16 twist and the 358009, but, so far, that has not been my experience.

[Ben]

My last rebore , done by JES in OR, in my Ruger # 1 ( 358 Win ) has a twist of 1 - 13.

Sort of the best of both worlds. It shoots 200's fine and also shoots my 358009 HP fine also. Great caliber for cast if the barrel has the correct twist. My rifling height is .005 " , I had a 98' Mauser Custom rifle with an A & B , F-34 contour , 35 Whelen barrel, the rifling was very shallow ( I sold that rifle...as the only rifles that interest me are the accurate ones.......) That barrel never did shoot cast very well.

Ben

[outdoorfan]

If that A&B barrel was anything like the one I had then the rifling height is probably only .0025-.003 and you'll need closer to .361 to fill the throat.

Although I didn't test it much, mine shot a 265 grain (dressed) LBT LFN at 2200'ish using 48-49 grains RL15.

Oh, and my A&B had a REALLY long throat.

[Ben]

Maybe I just didn't keep the A & B long enough to find out what it liked ? That rifling looked very shallow to me.

[JesterGrin_1]

Well the A&B (Shaw)that I have was probably made recently in 35 Whelen I purchased from Midway about 6 months ago. I have not had it in my hands as of yet but I think I will in the next couple of weeks.

But I have read of many people having great results with theirs so I guess I will have to wait to see what I find.

Even 357maximum has one on his rifle and shooting the BRP 360-220 GC at 2600FPS so all I can do is cross my fingers. :)

[Ben]

Yours may be fine, don't let my comments influence you. The accuracy & performance with 1 barrel doesn't prove or disprove much of anything.

Ben

[JesterGrin_1]

Whewwwwwwwww I almost had to call EMS lol. :)

[brian]

Lyman 3589 and my Remmy with factory 1-16 twist does just fine. that much Pb does back you up some though. the 200 will be a much nicer plinker. if i ever rebarrel though, i'd probably pick 12 rather than 16. we'll see.
Good luck.
Brian

[nicholst55]

I'm watching all of this with interest; I have an older Whitworth-marked Mark X Mauser (.30-06) that I bought new and immediately rebarreled in .35 Whelen with a Shilen barrel with a 1:14" twist. I haven't tried boolits in it yet, but I'm looking forward to it. Heck, I've only shot factory ammo in it to date! With the Remington 200 grain load it kills whitetail deer like the hammer of Thor! I'd truly love to be able to duplicate that performance with a boolit.

[outdoorfan]

Well the A&B (Shaw)that I have was probably made recently in 35 Whelen I purchased from Midway about 6 months ago. I have not had it in my hands as of yet but I think I will in the next couple of weeks.

But I have read of many people having great results with theirs so I guess I will have to wait to see what I find.

Even 357maximum has one on his rifle and shooting the BRP 360-220 GC at 2600FPS so all I can do is cross my fingers. :)

Mine I purchased from Midway approx. one year ago. The McGowen that I have on my Savage action right now is much better. Hope yours has better dimensions than mine did.

[JesterGrin_1]

Who knows all I can do is wait and see how she Shoots with cast. But as a last resort there are J bullets lol. :)

[JesterGrin_1]

Maybe I just didn't keep the A & B long enough to find out what it liked ? That rifling looked very shallow to me.

Ben I had the Gunsmith check the bore for me on the 35 Whelen and the 358 Winchester. Both Barrels made by Shaw for Midway under A&B.

The 35 whelen is .3505 with a .358 bore which is .0075 Groove this is after 15 jacketed rounds down the bore.

The 358 Winchester is .349 with a .358 bore which is .009 This is Brand new not a single round down the bore.

[outdoorfan]

I'm pleasantly surprised by those dimensions. Sounds like at least the basics are taken cared of.

[Ben]

JesterGrin_1

You should be good to go !