Are "Plain Old Shooters" Out of Fashion???

[klcarroll]

Thirty years ago, back when I worked “behind the counter”, the shop I worked at had two eight foot display cases (each with two shelves) FULL of used handguns: ……And I’m not talking about a bunch of unfired Smiths and Colts on consignment from some local collector!

……..I’m talking about cases full of well used but still sound Smith Model 10s and Colt Troopers! …..Trusty old used Rugers! …..Mixed number wartime P-38s, …and, of course, multiple examples of the Colt 1911 pattern!

Most of these guns showed generous holster wear, along with the minor dings and bruises that come from years of actual use; ……But that was their appeal!! If you were willing to look past a little finish wear, and maybe buy a new set of grips, you could usually find yourself a great shooter for much less than a weeks pay!

(…..And our shop wasn’t particularly large: ……If you went into one of the larger operations, it was entirely possible to spent a pleasant afternoon browsing the used hardware.)

But all of this seems to “over and done with” (…at least here in Northern Illinois.). Nowdays, when you walk into one of “Mega” stores, and ask “Where are the used guns?”; ….You typically get an irritated glance, and an answer along the lines of; “…Oh, they’re kinda mixed in: ….Look for the pink tags.”

…….And, of course, when you do find a “pink tag”, it’s attached to a gun that could pass for new, and is priced accordingly! (…..And there’s a sales person right there, trying to steer you over to the newest model Glock!)

It seems clear that the gun stores in my area are no longer interested in purchasing or trading into “plain old shooters”; …..And I can’t figure out why! (I know from my own experience that the “margin” on used stuff was ALWAYS better than the new iron!)

Is the same thing happening elsewhere, ….or is it really an “Illinois Thing”????


Kent

[EDK]

I'm just south of St Louis MO. A used pistol is a rarity in the gun shops, unless it is some kind of collectable. Pawn shops have "junque" for the most part.

My favorite shop will whip out the GUNTRADERS GUIDE or BLUE BOOK (where the authors get their data is beyond me; it isn't anywhere I've been or seen guns advertised for in the real world!) for your trade, but what few used guns are displayed seldom get close to those prices. It becomes obvious that you sell to another individual or take your chances walking around a gun show if you want anything close to what the gun is worth or go to the internet auctions.

My current collector/shooter interest is RUGER Original Size VAQUEROS/BISLEY VAQUEROS, three screw RUGERS, and some MARLIN rifles. Locally, I've bought a MARLIN 336, a S&W 22 auto and a S&W 617 in the last year; I missed getting a 44VAQUERO two weeks ago and am looking at a MARLIN 336 TEXAN at a pawn shop. My internet purchases have been better and more numerous....gunbroker and auction arms are my favorites. While on vacation, I visited a gun shop (The Fort, Big Timber MT) down the street from SHILOH SHARPS and bought a 7.5 inch 44 VAQUERO at a decent price.

I'd like to buy things at the local shop, BUT they aren't available and IF they are, they're generally overpriced. Even with $25 shipping and a $15-to-$25 transfer fee, I'm still ahead of their game. They need to look at the internet, but they're living in the good old days when they were the only place in town. An educated consumer IS NOT their best customer!

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[RobS]

Online dealers and online auctions are cutting into this as well since people can get more buck for their used firearms and others are there looking and buying.

[DeanWinchester]

There's a ton of gun stores here. They're all crooks but one. Been trading there for a few years now, and they always have a ton of used pistols. They usually run about 5-10% over book (plus tax and $10) TO me, I think that's fair. They gotta make a living too. I have sold several, and I have always been paid good money for them. Ya'll's gun stores suck!

[405]

Out of fashion? I beleive so--- both the "shooter" as in gun and the "shooter" as in 2 legged.

Just look at the catalogs, TV guns shows, store racks and the local range. If it doesn't have at least a 60mm Euro scope on it, pack 80 grains of powder in a 40mm long case, blast massive beasts at 600 yards without aiming or have at least 6 gadgetry rails then it ain't $!#!

[hoodat]

I can think of a couple of reasons for the situation you describe. One is that a lot of folks are simply hanging onto their guns.

Another reason is that it is simply very easy to sell or buy guns from friends, acquaintances, coworkers, and even strangers without ever bringing a gun shop into the picture. A lot of folks, and I'm one of them, would prefer to buy a gun for a fair price, off the books, without any transfer fees or written record. One phone call to the state police will determine if a particular gun is on the "hot list", and if the seller was the least concerned about me making the call, I wouldn't touch it.

I still like gun shops and pawn shops and gun shows, but lately, I've bought most of my firearms "off the books". jd

[lwknight]

There are plenty of beaters at the gunshows in TX. Problem is that somehow they get gold filled stocks or something when they hit 30 years of age. At least you would think so by the prices.

[Buckshot]

.............GopherSlayer and I spent the day at the range today, and it was fairly busy. Black rifles and a smattering of "Tacticool" pump, or gas shotguns (also black, oddly enough) predominated. Even had a guy with a bolt action 50 BMG show up, with Picatinny rails dripping off of it. A couple guys with regular bolt action hunting jobs, and a couple guys with Mosin Nagants.

For handguns the revolters were the decided minority. A later arrival had a new 8 shot S&W 357 mag with slab barrel, and it to was matte black. Two guys to our left had a blued and nickle plated Colt 1911's both in 38 Super and were blamming the ammo out darn fast and Gopher Slayer was trying to field the flying empties, as I'm always complaining about never finding any 38 Super lying about. I don't know what 38 Super goes for these days but they went through 4 boxes and left.

One of the guys shooting a M-N asked me if I was shooting (bless his heart) a 98 Mauser? I said, "Naw, it's a 95 Steyr" and he said 'Oh' and went back to his bench. Not interested except in 98 Mausers I guess, and hopes to see one soon?

Anyways the point being, in our total number of forays to this range the older and more traditional is almost invisible compared to the "New and Fast". Same in the brass we pick up. To haul off the 223, 9mm, and 40 S&W you'd need a skiploader and a set of bottom dumps. Well there's a general smattering of 308 & good ole 30-'06 but the rest is ankle deep.

I guess those poor souls enamoured of the 38 Special either don't shoot there or do a danged fine job of picking up their brass to cart home and reload.

Everyone seemed to be having a good time though, and I suppose in the end that's all that really matters ............... happy shooters. I did notice ole Gopher Slayer turned a bit green when one of the Colt 38 Super shooters had his wife try it on for size. I think the fact she didn't have a good handle on the idea of how to hold it, seemed less then enthused and a bit intimidated plus the fact she was standing right next to him, may have had something to do with it. :mrgreen:

.............. Buckshot

[Jim]

Y'know, now that you mention it, I think I remember that. It's been a looooong time since I saw shelves and racks full of "shooters".

[oldhickory]

I think the disapearance of the "mom and pop" gun shop has something to do with it. I think it was komrad-klinton who put the brakes on many of these small operations back in the 90's by drasticly raising the cost of FFL's and over regulating them. The mega stores, I'm sure did their damages as well, and on-line gun auctions.

We have to remember though, many of the revolvers and self loaders we know and love are now in the collector realm. Colt Police Positive Specials, Official Police, and New Service revolvers aren't casual shooters any more, neither are the old automatics, PPK, P38, Colt/Browning Pocket Models, etc. You should see the looks and questions I get at the range when I pull out grand-dad's 1904 vintage Colt New Service .45, or my U.S.G.I. 1911A1 from the "brother-hood of plastic-pistol assn. members!" It's much the same on the rifle range, plastic and stainless ultra-mag shooters and the black rifle crowd standing back watching and scoping the shots when I shoot an 1884 Springfield with black powder loads, my M1, and sometimes even my old sporters and vintage 1894 Winchesters, (it really sends them into a state of utter confusion when they learn I'm shooting cast boolits in them,accurately, reliabaly, and with no issues).

Times have changed, these guns aren't "bread and butter" items for the average gun shops anymore. When they do come into a shop, they're set aside for some collector they know and only put up for sale in the case or shelf on rare occasion. The generation who carried, shot, and used these guns are disapaering, leaving the guns to non-shooters who simply put them away and keep them because, "it was dad's gun". I still see hoodles of these guns at shows, but mostly on tables of "specialty" dealers.

[klcarroll]

Y'know, now that you mention it, I think I remember that. It's been a looooong time since I saw shelves and racks full of "shooters".


Well..........; At least I know it isn't just me, ....or the absurd state I live in!

.....I do begin to wonder if "Modern Manufacturing" isn't contributing to the phenomenon.

Paper-thin Unibody construction and extensive reliance on delicate electronics have made “good” 25 year old “beater” cars a rarity: ……One has to wonder if we are seeing a similar trend in firearms!

Will the modern, light-weight, plastic-framed wonders that are so popular today be able to emulate my old Webleys, ……and still be solid “shooters” 90 years from now?

The issue isn’t the tensile strength, it’s the dimensional stability after decades of exposure to chemicals, ultra-violet, heat, ….and all else. (Just ask anyone who has an original Carter “Thermoquad” on their classic car!!)


Kent

[Murphy]

I've noticed the disappearance of 'shooters' as well.

Yes, people are holding onto guns longer for one. But I can't help but feel that the fact S&W and other's have dropped so many fine old 'blued' handguns from their linup, hasn't helped any.

These days if I see something like a Model 10 for $200 and it functions fine? It's gonna go home with me! Great truck, woods bumming gun. Of course 20 years ago, we could pick up an old S&W Brazilian for the same purpose in .45ACP for $185 OTD depending on your dealer. Those days are long gone I believe.

About the only bargains I see anymore are from online store's and auctions where someone is selling off a bunch of police/security company revolvers. And it seems a lot of those have had the single action step removed rendering them double action only.

Ahhhhh...the good ole days, don't we wish?

Murphy

[Jim]

.....Yes, people are holding onto guns longer for one.....
Murphy

Yup, me too. I have "keepers" and "traders" and way more "keepers" than "traders".

[deltaenterprizes]

A big loss to the used firearms market is when law enforcement agencies destroy confiscated firearms.
Has anybody priced a new revolver lately? $600-800 is what I have seen lately. Not a lot of buyers at those prices when a cheap auto can go for $400 new!
Modern manufacturing has made it to throw together a functional auto for a lot less than than the hand fitting needed for a finely tuned revolver.
The sad part is that dealers are pushing autos and few consumers realize that with proper cleaning and lubrication they are carrying a single shot pistol!

[jmh54738]

It appears to me that the entire market has moved away from "sport shooting" into concealable personal protection arms. I imagine that marketing dictates this move as more states ratify concealed carry laws. Last fall I studied a report on about eight pocket auto pistols, wherein all but one ($800) had feeding problems. More recently a report on the S&W, IIRC, 632 in 327 Magnum which spits in your face for $1100.00. Where is the market for this, that insults your face, your ears, and your wallet all at the same time, plus the ugly modular construction that insults my eyes. Being an old farhdt, I have enough real guns to last several lifetimes, which is a good thing as in today's market very little interests me. I stay far away from everything using the "buzz" words "tactical", "extreme", or "assult weapon" and even fear the ever increasing black cloaked police state which we seem to be morphing into. The old "double tap" has changed into 42 holes in a guy reaching for his wallet. I must be in the minority, for as others have stated, much of this new stuff shows up on the ranges. So, yes, guys like me keep all of the "shooters" which are both a pleasure to behold and a pleasure to use.

[home in oz]

There are used pistols around here, but the reasonable price is unusual.

Close to new is the norm.

[Thin Man]

Somewhere around 45 years ago when I got serious about buying firearms, a lot of what was common in the market was WWII and Korean Conflict arms that had been "liberated". 1911s, P-38s, Lugers, Mausers, Springfields, Trapdoors, Krags, SAAs, top-breaks, etc. etc. plus all the domestically produced commercial selections, many of which are now titled "classics". Many veterans and non-vets hunted and/or used these in competitions. The shops had wide selections of used firearms in all prices based on rarity and condition. Geography played a part as some styles of firearms were more popular (expensive) in one part of the country as compared with another. Most men were respected and appreciated for their war time service and the country's mood was generally gun friendly.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 showed the world that our legislators were ready and prepared to enact legislation to slow the firearms industry. While this was only a renewal of many codes that had been enacted many years earlier, along with some new legislative demands, it meant a huge change in the way we would have to transact all business concerning firearms from that time forward.

The Viet Nam era generated its own influences. The conflicts between military operations and political influence led to public revolt, with the veterans paying the price by being titled baby killers and so forth. Media treatment of the conflict left the general public with a sour view of military conflicts, also of firearms as they represented these conflicts. The marketplace changed with the appearance of Mattie Matels, Tokarevs, SKSs, AKs, and everything else thus related. The older firearms had generally been bought up by this time and the enthusiasts had new materials to learn about.

Enter the occurrences of law enforcement being out-gunned by thugs in fire fights, calls for more police firepower, and the transition from duty revolvers to semi-autos, usually Glocks. Some agencies traded or sold off their surplus firearms, yet some are still retaining theirs in storage from fear of public outcry. Popularity drives votes, and elected government officials are keenly sensitive to any source of public complaint about their actions. Police agencies continued to destroy seized firearms and their actions were public knowledge. Some agencies began "buy-back" programs, then destroyed their wares without even confirming whether the firearms were scheduled in law enforcement computers (National Crime Information Center - NCIC) as stolen. This enraged theft victims, and rightfully so.

And then came Clinton. Bans were enacted and the firearms industry was in a panic. Properties that used to be comonplace in the market became restricted, thus creating a fresh environment for black market trades. In spite of sunset provisions for these restrictions, their influences can still be felt to the present time. People brgan buying up anything that was restricted, most commonly from non-dealers. "They may come after them, but they won't get mine" was a popular mindset. The general market followed. Common, not restricted merchandise sold like never before. Shelves became empty. Manufacturers could not keep up with demands for products and long waits for delivery (if at all) followed. As merchandise availability decreased, prices rose. We had a "seller's market" where the buyers cared more about availability of the item rather than the price. At the same time Clinton marshalled the ATF to close as many FFL shops as possible, and many of these dealers folded their tent and walked away. With fewer dealers, those who remained picked up the business from customers who had fewer shops to visit.

The Internet has been both good and bad for the industry. Sales sites have prospered, with willing sellers hoping to make the most from their sales and willing buyers hoping to find that one item they have not been able to locate otherwise. Sales between buyers and sellers keep the merchandise off dealers' shelves. Then, dealers see lower profits by collecting only transfer fees rather than the modest profits from sales. The firearm industry has always suffered from the limited mark-up from wholesale to retail prices. Buyers comparison shop for best prices and the usual winner is the lowest price vendor, aka Wal-Mart, who does little to support continued industry health. With many buyers fighting for the win in a firearm auction, many items sell for more money that they would ever bring on a dealer's shelf. This drives all prices up, both business and private.

And now we have Obama. Fears and rumors about additional restrictions have circulated since his nomination for election. This and his election fueled the industry for about a year, but that buying frenzy has stabilized. As with earlier threats (real or imagined) dealers sold off nearly everything they could offer. We are just recovering from that rush when we have a tragedy in Arizona. The usual aftermath of threatened legislative action has the buyers awake again, and we are in another "get it while you still can" mode. Prices will go up rather than down for the short time until we all regain our calm but apprehensive usual mood. New threats of legislation include high-capacity magazines and no firearms within 1,000 feet of an elected official. Isn't it sad that legislators take notice of their mortality only when one of their own is a victim. Wait, this is off-topic, let's not get started on that discussion.

I hope some of the above notes, from my historical experience, help you understand how we got where we are in this industry at the present time. Times were different in the past, and much of it was good. Not all of it, but still much of it. My view is to learn from experience and make reasonable predictions toward the future to help guide my current decisions. I know the majority of my firearms will bring more cash now than I paid for them. Some have been with me a long time, some short. Now when I find an item that is priced more (but not excessively more) than I believe it should bring, if I am interested enough to take it home the money WILL change hands. After all, the only real regrets I recall are the deals I refused and never could replace, and the ones I just missed. Beyond that, you never know just what real prize will appear for sale tomorrow or the next day. Keep your spirits up and a small cash stash to lock a deposit so those true keepers won't get away. Good luck.

Thin Man

[bowenrd]

Check out Carter's in Shabbona or Rigler's in Rock Falls. Both are nice private owned gun shops with large selection.

[JSnover]

It might be hard to sell 'honest wear' on a solid gun. If it books at $350 and the seller won't let it go for less than $250, an honest dealer can't make more than $100 on a $350 gun.... if he talks a customer out of buying the latest/coolest/blackest/shiniest from the other display cabinet. On the other hand, if the seller lets it go to a buddy of his for $300 everybody's happy.
My daughter wants to get her LTC and I'm watching the gunshops for a good used .38/.357 but the others on this thread are right; they're either hard to find or overpriced.

[Hardcast416taylor]

You poor souls! You should live up here in the Thumb area of Michigan, many shops that have cases and rows of racks of used shooters available.Robert

[AZ-Stew]

Many years ago when I was desperate for cash, I sold a very lightly used Colt New Frontier .22/.22 Mag. convertible at a gun shop for FAR less than I could have sold it in a private sale. For many reasons, I had no choice but take the quick sale at the gun shop. The family had to eat.

Point is, taking half what a gun is worth selling it at a gun shop is plain stupid these days when there are a plethora of gun shows and internet auction sites that will get you 80, 90 110 percent of what the gun's really worth. Hence few used guns in the gun shops, and fewer bargains. I know a couple of shops that sell used, many of them on consignment. I even bought a Smith M-29 Nickel 6-1/2 inch in like-new condition about 5 years ago from one of them. But I agree the market isn't what it used to be.

Regards,

Stew

[Lee]

Last recession, waded thru piles of used guns. Last year, one local gun shop put up a sign "WE DON' BUY NO USED GUNS" (??????) This recession, no local gun shops have any used guns. Of course they all got the basic plastic black 15 rounder. I watch the noobs come in with their freshly dry CCW permit, and plunk down full (MSRP!!!) price for a handful of zzytel polymer. I sure hope they can shoot better than they can think. Thank O'Bummer, Schumer, Boxer, (did I miss any???[smilie=l:) and the rest of the loony left for this mess.................

[Mk42gunner]

Some of the very few small gun shops around here have used guns, but nothing like 20-30 years ago. Most of the prices on used guns are outrageous; it is hard to spend $450+ on a used bolt action when a new Stevens is advertised for $279.

Most of the handgunsare priced the same way. It is awfully hard for me to even make an offer on a beat up TZ-75 that is priced 150% of what I paid for a new one in 1992.

It is very rare to see any of the old budget priced revolvers like Iver Johnson or H&R.

RObert

[iron mule]

well guys
here is my point of view on this as an owner of a small bum shop
now first let me say my shop is small and it is not open full time but it is very close to my house and i have been know to open up at 9 pm if a customer needed something i had
but last year i had the total of 1 used revolver come into the shop for trade and it was sold the next day to a customer that had been looking for one for a couple months
what i am saying is if it doesn't come in the shop it can't be put up for sale
off subject a little and not to hijack this post
but there is a thread here about a listing of walk in retailers what i would ask is for you all to keep the small guy in mind when you shop it is hard these days for us to make any money competing against the big stores
but when you deal with a small shop most of the time the person that you are talking to understands what you say and you mostly get the service that you expect
one thing that i did to help the shooters in my area was when the primer/powder scare was here the most i charged a customer for 1,000 primers was 35.00 i never went higher than that it hurt my profits but these were people that came to me and depended on me for there supplies and i made a promise to them that i would not gouge them on the price

in closing if any of you get down to south ms feel free to stop in
thanks for listening to my rant if that is what you want to call it
now lets return to the original subject
mule

[BBA]

You poor souls! You should live up here in the Thumb area of Michigan, many shops that have cases and rows of racks of used shooters available.Robert

+1 If it wasn't for those shops, I wouldn't have most of the guns I own. If it wasn't for Michigan having high unemployment, probably wouldn't see some fine older guns coming into the shops.

[starmac]

I will say one more thing for the small shops, most thst I have dealt with will order you a gun for a small percentge over cost, this puts them in the ballpark of the big box stores.

Where I lived in NM after wallmart moved in most gunshops eventually quit stocking long guns, except for a few used ones. The ones I talked too said the same thing. they could not afford to tie there money up for the minimal amount of profit they could get.

wallmart has a habit of selling everything at a low price until they get the local businesses closed up, then either quit stocking it or quit running their sales.
Wallmart has stopped selling guns and ammo in a lot of places.

[Moonie]

I truly miss the mom and pop gun stores we used to have around here. I spent lots of time in them years ago. Had a new store open a few blocks from the house, I went in the first day and told the owner I would probably spend quite a bit of time there. I had planned to until I noticed they had nothing in reloading supplies, when I asked they said they could order, their prices were twice what the shop in the next town was for powder and primers. Their selection of firearms wasn't all that good and pricey, in fact everything in the store is at least 25% more than I can get in other shops. They are at least as high as Gander Mountain which I will not shop in.

[Harter66]

Now on the walk in store thread I only listed shops that I shop and see a fair shake going on in,there are probably nearly 100 shops ,including pawn shops, within a 40 mile drive or 25 mile radius of home. At least 3 of them will order a new gun but deal about 70% exclusively in GI and used "shooter/truck guns" and about 5% new or collectable. There were a couple of other that seemed to always have an "oh that just came in on a trade"gun or 2 in the case and a box of ammo too. Best of all was the "oh, this is cash,take off 10%" ,I once even bought 1 that I'm sure never made the books,he only hit 6 didgits on the phone and didn't split the copies.

The hock shops average 20 hand guns in the case , 30 or so long guns. The pretty 1s don't last long,GIs don't last either ,one place had in a week rolled every case gun over and turned over 60 used magizines.

[home in oz]

I am glad I dont live in the mitten state.

Too cold.

Bad enough here with snow and 15 degrees today.

Good luck to you in the frozen North!

[BABore]

Here's a link to one of the bigger shops that Hardcast is referring to.

http://www.williamsgunsight.com/gunsights/809usedhandguns.htm

[troy_mclure]

Here's a link to one of the bigger shops that Hardcast is referring to.

http://www.williamsgunsight.com/gunsights/809usedhandguns.htm

alot of those are new prices. lol

[Bret4207]

It's the same with lots of stuff. Used tractors and implements are crazy high right now, unless it's some off brand (Belarus, Long, Leyland, McConnell) or pure junk. Good used cars- same thing. Furniture, tools, sporting goods, etc. What can be had cheap is broken electronics gear. I've been looking through craigslist and the number of "free" broken or completely outdated big screen tvs', computers (a Commodore 64? Really???), older game systems etc., is staggering.

I suppose it's just time marching on, but I miss the $45.00 22 bolt gun with the marred stock, rusty "patina" and pristine barrel. The old Mossberg 144's for $60.00 are long gone. The $100.00 deer rifle (94 Winnie, 720 Remington, Enfield, or Krag) is loooong gone. The only "working mans guns" I see anymore are total Bubba L-E, Arisakas, M-N, maybe a hack job 788 Remington with no magazine or a cut down non-functioning 742 also sans mag, maybe a H+R Topper (or whatever NE arms calls them) or a complete off brand like a store label Western Field or Ted Williams. Handguns are worse! The last realistic price I saw on a Smith was a bone stock M-10 with almost no finish, more cylinder play than any revolter should have and some truly impressive road rash gouges. I can buy broken guns and do the parts hunt thing, but that's quite a krap shoot on an early Dan Wesson or High Standard wheel gun.

I guess we're just living in the past. But I'll tell you this- We're headed for some truly staggering inflation guys. Food and fuel prices are going up, seed corn and bean prices are nuts, fertilizer is going through the roof. Btter plan your garden boys and break out the canner.

[oldhickory]

Yeah, yer right, Bret. I tend to hang on to stuff like never before and repair it or just stash it away. My pre war S&W .38 M&P which I considdered selling many times, but hey, it slipps into my pocket nicely and shoots well so why get rid of a very good thing... Same with the equiptment around here, just rigged an old unknown pedigree motor to my band saw for the cost of a few hours labor and a trickle of electial juice. Same with the 60's vintage sump pump in the celler, a fewhours of labor, and it works again! I keep kicki'n and cussi'n that old tractor and equiptment along, but it keeps on chuggi'n. I ain't about to buy new stuff that I can't work on and "rig" myself.

I guess that's where we're at in the economy. Just like mom and dad drilled into our heads about the great depression until we felt as though we were the one's who lived through it. Heck, I won't even throw away an old pair of boots without salvaging the strings, useable leather, and rubber soles!..And yes, I've used those scraps for various "riggi'n" projects!

[Geraldo]

I thought this was just a Florida problem. We live off of skinning Canadians and New Yorkers, so I thought maybe we boned them on guns as well.

For example:
Shop #1-I walked in the other day and they still have about ten Contender barrels, all used but with a lot of shooting left in them. All priced at $250 to $300. A used Ruger Blackhawk in .357-$450.

Shop #2-I'm always looking for old TC muzzleloaders, and I found an early 1980s Renegade with dust in the barrel from being there so long and no price tag. When I ask how much, they say $400, which is a deal they tell me because new ones (I thought they were discontinued?) are $600. You don't even want to know what they want for revolvers of any vintage.

Shop #3-This guy does get some used stuff in, and his prices are better than the other two by far, but still high in my estimation.

Guns shows-forgetaboutit.

Is it really worse than where I lived before? Probably not. I did ninety-some percent of my business with one shop there. The owner would trade anything, and he made 15% on new guns, 10% on used.

[1Shirt]

Always enjoy reading postings like this, because, it gives me a chance to reflect on reality. I seem to find that I most always agree at least the vast majority of time with what Buckshot has posted. This time is no exception. AND, I have to agree with Bret's posting here as well. Getting old just ain't for sissies, but sure beats the alternative.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[quack1]

There is a shop a couple miles from me, the biggest one within 20 miles. They have been in business for over 40 years(I can remember when they started). Used to be they had several racks of used long guns and several display counters with used handguns. Now they have very few used guns- the reason is they put any used guns they get on the internet auctions.
The owner said they can sell them for a good bit more than they could in the store and that they get sold much faster. Can't argue with that, but when I used to stop in every week or so, now I only go there when I need powder or primers. To quote Dylan "The times they are a-changin".

[klcarroll]

...........Used to be they had several racks of used long guns and several display counters with used handguns. Now they have very few used guns- the reason is they put any used guns they get on the internet auctions.
The owner said they can sell them for a good bit more than they could in the store and that they get sold much faster. Can't argue with that, but when I used to stop in every week or so, now I only go there when I need powder or primers. ........


Yes, ......the Internet gives one access to a very wide audience, and on-line auctions tend to bring out the fools with “More Dollars Than Sense”. (Just watch what goes on over on Ebay!!)

………But I wonder how many impulse and “Oooops! ….I forgot I was out of that!” sales your local shop has lost because “Regulars” no longer visit on a regular basis.

To run a successful “Bricks and Mortar” business, you MUST get people to walk through the door!! …..If you are going to dump all of the merchandise that would actually attract “Walk-in Business” on the Internet, then you may as well lock the front door and become yet another “On-Line Only” company.:cry:


Kent

[AZ-Stew]

It's not a "Mom & Pop", but I just found a small shop today that's run by a couple of guys as a hobby. They've been in the neighborhood as long as I have, but they're in the back of a strip mall and not easily visible. They have a NIB, but older, S&W M-xx (won't tell you until I buy it - hee, hee, hee!) for a very reasonable price. I may be back tomorrow!

Regards,

Stew

[btroj]

Times have changed. How many of us have ordered stuff from Midway, Midsouth, Graf, etc. Lately? Did we buy powder from Ppwdervalley? Primers too?
Well, those are all items we could have bought at the local gun shop. We are somewhat our own worst enemy.
We also need to realize that like it or not, the tacticool crowd is buying lots of "stuff" at the big gun shops. Guess who they are catering to?

We need to stop living in the past. It is the way it is today. All of retail has changed .

[Bret4207]

I still buy all my powder and primers locally and we have a couple shops with a fair amount of used stuff and one part time shop that gets the absolute nicest used stuff around. You just have to get there fast.

Fixin' stuff is my religion these days. I've come the the conclusion I simply can't buy new or even used anymore in a lot of areas. Prices are just too high.

[klcarroll]

Times have changed. How many of us have ordered stuff from Midway, Midsouth, Graf, etc. Lately? Did we buy powder from Ppwdervalley? Primers too?
Well, those are all items we could have bought at the local gun shop. We are somewhat our own worst enemy.
We also need to realize that like it or not, the tacticool crowd is buying lots of "stuff" at the big gun shops. Guess who they are catering to?

We need to stop living in the past. It is the way it is today. All of retail has changed .



Hmmmm...........

Yes, ....I have bought equipment from Midway and Grafs; ......But only after checking to verify that the local shops don't have what I am looking for.

No, .......I have never bought powder or primers on line: .....But to be completely honest, that is mainly because my inherently cheap nature causes me to have an allergic reaction to the whole concept of paying a HAZMAT fee![smilie=1:

….And finally, (speaking only for myself) I have to say that phrases like; “We need to stop living in the past. It is the way it is today.” make me nervous: …..”The Opposition” would very much like to use that same phrase when the whole concept of OWNING firearms is discussed! ……Some aspects of “The Old Days” are clearly worth holding on to!

@ BTROJ: ……I am not taking exception with you personally: ….Only the widely held attitude that you rightly brought up! (Thanks for that, ….as THAT concept is a very valid part of this discussion!)


Kent

[btroj]

No insult perceived. I just deal all day with people who live in the past. Change happens, always has, always will. Some is bad, like our president, some is good. Who here wants to go back to the days of polio?

I also feel strongly that unless you shop, and BUY, from your local stores they will cease to exist. Getting stuff online or thru mail order does not keep local stores open. We have somewhat become our own worst enemies.

[starmac]

The way I see it is the past is going away too fast, and the time for going back to the past is coming too fast. I just hope there will be enough past to start with. lol

[jcwit]

No, .......I have never bought powder or primers on line: .....But to be completely honest, that is mainly because my inherently cheap nature causes me to have an allergic reaction to the whole concept of paying a HAZMAT fee!



Even when the company selling the product is offering to pay the hazmet?

I fail to see the logic here!

[starmac]

Every industry is having the same problem, whether it be loading supplies, auto parts ,to lawn mowers and chainsaws. I so far just have the store order it for me, old fashioned yes but I have somewhat to look at when the wrong product or a defected part, or later on if it needs serviced. I know I could save a few bucks here and there, but if in ten more years what will happen if for some reason we lose use of the internet, and there are no shops to buy or repair anymore.

[steg]

[Every industry is having the same problem, whether it be loading supplies, auto parts ,to lawn mowers and chainsaws. I so far just have the store order it for me, old fashioned yes but I have somewhat to look at when the wrong product or a defected part, or later on if it needs serviced. I know I could save a few bucks here and there, but if in ten more years what will happen if for some reason we lose use of the internet, and there are no shops to buy or repair anymore.]

I think you bring up a valid point starmac, one day the Demorats could come up with a way to make it illegal to buy the stuff were interested in overnight, I know it;s not probable but their isn't much that they do that surprises me anymore. a FFL or some kind of a licence could be necessary to have them shipped, I think it was '68 that they pulled their last move, it could happen again, IMO, I'll hang onto the small shops as long as I can, even if it is a bit more pricey, I think it's worth it in the long run..................................steg

[waksupi]

Sometimes local shops just don't come through on what they promise. I needed some dies, that were only available through Sinclair. We have a shop here that specializes in reloading equipment, and they said they would have them for me the next Monday. I checked in, no dies. Checked in weekly waiting for them. I had checked with Sinclair, and they had the dies in stock. After three months, I went into the shop, canceled my order, and got a refund. The shop owner was mad. By that time, I didn't care. Ordered directly, and had them in three days.

[c3d4b2]

You guys are lucky to have a shop close by. The closest shop I could find what I needed was Sinclairs and it was a 4 hour round trip. Since Sinclair left Indiana the closest local shop that carries what I need is in Port Clinton, Ohio and is only open in the July, August time frame. :violin:

On the upside the prices are great and there is no Hazmat fee. :mrgreen:

[klcarroll]

Even when the company selling the product is offering to pay the hazmet?

I fail to see the logic here!


The "Logic" is really very easy to comprehend: .....I'm on a limited budget, and I can't afford to order 30,000 primers at a time.

If you can direct me to a source that will pay the HAZMAT fee on a sleeve of 5,000 primers, AND charge less than the $28/1000 that my local guy does, ....Then I'll be your friend for life!


Kent

[btroj]

Not saying all the time Waksupi, just that we need to patronize the stores when possible. We used to have a store nearby that I refused to go to. Owners was a real pain to deal with, and prices were out of sight. Granted this was long ago but primers were 2.50 per hundred. Asked about price per thousand. Well, 2.50 per hundred would be 25 per thousand. This while other stores in the area were at 12.00 per thousand. This guy did not deserve my business.

I have bought lots online. Some stuff is not to be found locally. But my primers and powder are bought locally. I don't complain about. Prices too much because it won't do me any good. I can buy them or not buy them, my choice. I chose to buy them or else I don't shoot.

[starmac]

We get raped on shipping from many suppliers up here. It is a lot of the time to order from a local business, and wait on their stock order than order direct and pay the shipping. I am talking everything not just reloading supplies.

With powder we also get raped because of the shipping laws, there can only be 400 pounds on one barge, and that has to be divided out to 100 pounds per pallet and shipped on all 4 corners of the barge. This was a law just to make it a little more of a thorn, we will eventually get too many thorns to be able to play anymore.

[btroj]

Well, is there anything cheap in Alaska? I can't even imagine paying what you guys do for daily living needs.

[oldhickory]

To answer the original question. No, plain old shooters never go out of style. There's nothing like picking up a Colt New Service, Oficial Police, or Police Positive Special, feeling the quality, admiring the fine machine work and close tollerances, and firing them at the range...Nothing else compares!

[jcwit]

Wello Powder Valley did have primers hazmet free but I see that has expired now. Its now freight prepais but some of the primers are only 20 bucks a thousand so a carton of 5,000 primers would be $125.00 total or $25.00 a thousand, free freight. This is good till the end of January.

Am I your friend?

[starmac]

Well, is there anything cheap in Alaska? I can't even imagine paying what you guys do for daily living needs.

LOL It depends on where you live up here, I live in fairbanks and prices are pretty comparable to most of the lower 48 for a lot of neccities. There are items that are for some reason cheaper and some stuff that is just stupid high.

If you live in the bush everything is high, by the time you fly or float it in.

[AZ-Stew]

Here's what I found in my local "Mom & Pop" store the other day. It followed me home this afternoon. It's a new in box, S&W M-57 .41 Magnum, manufactured in 1978. And the price was a steal!

I've gotta start using my compressor to blow the dust off stuff before I photograph it with the macro lens. Those dust specks are embarassing, but you don't see them until you look at the photo on screen.

The last three digits of the S/N have been blanked on the box and inside the crane for security purposes.

http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/m57_shipping_box.jpg

http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/m57_presentation_case.jpg

http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/m57_presentation_case_open.jpg

http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/m57_gun_and_accessories_in_case.jpg

http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/m57_barrel_mark.jpg

http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/m57_left_grip.jpg

http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/m57_right_grip.jpg

http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/m57_breech.jpg

http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/m57_forcing_cone.jpg

Regards,

Stew

[oldhickory]

Nice!

[klcarroll]

Wello Powder Valley did have primers hazmet free but I see that has expired now. Its now freight prepais but some of the primers are only 20 bucks a thousand so a carton of 5,000 primers would be $125.00 total or $25.00 a thousand, free freight. This is good till the end of January.

Am I your friend?

Absolutely!

I hadn't run across those guys before, ...and I am really impressed with their pricing.

Hopefully I can do you a good turn some day!

Kent

[white eagle]

truly gods country
N.Wisconsin is the same... at least still has a few decent shops
I fail to see the appeal in the black haze but what ever works ...ehhhh

[Wayne Smith]

Unfortunately I have no one locally from whom I can get 8 lbs of a surplus powder. Thus I pay hazmat.

[Snoopz]

you know the past may be the past and after reading some of this, I'm glad I had a chance to buy what I did in the past. My favorite Gun Shop had a pawn shop also in the back, I was like a kid in a candy store, Belgium Brownings over unders, 3 screw Rugers, Colts, S&W all the good things. Would walk in there every Friday after being paid, Tim or Mike would throw the dealer catalogs on the counter, me I would go through them and order one of these, one of those, most of what I still do have is all new in the boxes, S&W 29 in wood cases, Model 19's, Colt Gold Cups, Colt Diamond Backs etc. Springfield M1A's from Standard - Super Match $441-$537 even a Devine Texas M1A, Springfield M1 Garand, HK91-93's dealer direct $399, High Standard Victor / Trophy on and on, bullets Sierra !68HPBT Match $7.50 per 100, and I know times have changed and dollar value but come on M1A's for how much now, I'm old and I'm glad I bought what I did and that is what is helping to pay the bills right now, just wish I would of bought a few Auto's BM59's,M14's,M2HB, MP5's, Valmets, M60's....found some old Shotgun New's late 70's, early 80's, some Springfield Armory catalogs..the most expensive thing was the M2HB $2,800..

-Snoopz

[oldhickory]

Wow, had to bring up the BM-59! That's the one rifle I wish I had bought back in the day and didn't!

[songdog53]

The price of used guns have followed the price of new guns which is up up and away. Plus so many people rather buy from friends and people that have them to sell because of fear of guns being taken by goverment and they rather not have paper trail. The anti-gun people in this country has driven prices of all guns up and only thing that will match their price up is gasoline. Along with people hanging on to their guns now makes for less and less good shooters from being on market. My 2 cents worth on fewer shooters being around.

[JSnover]

Does anybody suppose it would be worthwhile to create a sticky or a section for good local gunshops, sorted by state? I live in Mass and hope to move to PA soon (Altoona). Folks who travel a lot might like to know where they can find a reasonable deal (IAW applicable laws, etc).

[oldhickory]

The price of used guns have followed the price of new guns which is up up and away. Plus so many people rather buy from friends and people that have them to sell because of fear of guns being taken by goverment and they rather not have paper trail. The anti-gun people in this country has driven prices of all guns up and only thing that will match their price up is gasoline. Along with people hanging on to their guns now makes for less and less good shooters from being on market. My 2 cents worth on fewer shooters being around.

I think you may have hit on something there. I find myself practicing that route more and more myself.

Great looki'n dog by the way!

[Snoopz]

Wow, had to bring up the BM-59! That's the one rifle I wish I had bought back in the day and didn't!

Yeah man...saw that in the catalog, I wanted one back then and was like I will get it later..had other "toys" to buy

-Snoopz