45 LC Question ?

[Gene Perryman]

I went to the range yesterday and shot my Ruger Vaquero 45 LC just to see if factory ammo would lead my barrel ??? I was under the impression that my barrel was probably constricted by about 1 to 2 thousandths were it screws into the frame ……

I fired 15 rds of Magtech 250 LFP #45D and 15 rds of Winchester 250 LFN #USA45CB. The bullets in both brands appear to be soft, maybe BHN 8 – 9 or lower !!! Both brands are advertised at 750 FPS at the muzzle.

To my absolute amazement, neither leaded the barrel ??? Just a few particles of unburned powder…..The forcing cone was even clean as a whistle !!!

Now I have shot Horn. 200 and 255 LSWC’s and Speer 200 and 250 LSWC’s as CowBoy loads and it leads the barrel just past the forcing cone for about ½ inch ?!?! All these bullets are .452 except the Horn 255 which is .454. All these bullets are swaged so they got to be soft same as the factory, right ??? The rest of the barrel is perfectly clear of lead. The muzzle has the lead star, so the lube is apparently doing it’s job ???

Now my question is: why do my loads lead and the factory ammo does NOT ???

Thanks,
Gene

[white eagle]

baffling for sure

[Catshooter]

The only way to tell if any given boolit will lead or not is to shoot it.

The #1 reason for leading is fit. In my experience, when a sixgun boolit leads in the begining of the bore it is fit, maybe just a bit small. Not badly undersized and the combination of the design of the boolit (hollow base?), the boolits alloy, the powders pressure curve and the fit in the situation you describe would indicate to me that the ones that lead are a bit too small, are probably pure lead (BHN 5) and the powder is obdurating the bases just quickly enough to lead a short distance and then stop. Quite the sentence, huh? :)

Did that help or just confuse the snot outa ya? Help, I hope.

Welcome to the forum by the way.


Cat

[Grapeshot]

I've been shooting the .45 Colt since 1973. Colt SAA's, Dakota's, Great Western 2's, USFA Rodeo's, Ruger Vaqueoes, Uberti Schofields, S&W M25-5's, Colt Anaconda, and an odd 1878 Colt DA .45. They all had the same thing in common. You need the right size bullet and cylinder throat. Your guess that the factory bullets are soft is not entirely accurate. The cowboy loads you fired use a fairly HARD bullet that is supplied to Winchester and Magtech by comercial casting firms. Who is supplying them, I don't know, but from pulling bullets from Winchester and Magtech brass when I used to work at an indoor range, I found that they are the same style as what I was getting from NBC Bullets at the time. The Hornady and Speer LSWC's are really soft. I found that you need to run them about 850 fps to get the smokeless powder to generate enough push to make them obturate quick enough to block any gas from blowing by them and depositing lead in the bore or throats.

[MtGun44]

Higher hardness does NOT correlate well with reduced leading; END/STOP.

There are FAR more important issues that affect leading. AFIK, all current factory lead boolit .45
LC ammo uses hollow base boolit designs, so it will fit essentially any throat and bore dimensions
due to the extreme variation in these dimensions seen in handguns chambered for this caliber.

FIT is king (a tip of the hat to Bret).

This old wife's tale just will not die.

Bill

[btroj]

Bill is right. Too many factors to know for sure. But hard and undersized is a recipe for leading.
How fast were your loads going? Are the bullets the same size?
This is where trial and error is the way to happiness. Try different sizes and see what you get.

[MGySgt]

what dies are you using? Lee FCD? could be the culprite.

[Gene Perryman]

First , thanks for your replies, as this is a conundrum !!!

I pulled one of the Winchester loads ( I've shot all of the MagTech ) and it is a flat plainbase bullet weighing 249.5 grns at .454 in. The lube is a very thin blackish brown film -- with a crimp groove and no grease grooves. I'm 99.99% sure it's a swaqged bullet......... It appears to be softer or as soft as the Hornady swaged bullets ???

The powder appears to be 231. I didn't weigh it as I spilled some in pulling the bullet

Thanks,

Gene

[Gene Perryman]

Now I need a formula to convert my WW's to a 1:25 or 1:30 mix ???

Thanks,
Gene

[Harter66]

Nope. You just need throats larger than bore and a boolit a hair bigger than the throats.

I shoot a LEE 255gn rnfp that drops at .454 at 1100 fps in my RBH . My throats ,now that they match,are .4536 iirc the bore is .452 and my boolits are mostly water dropped "j"cores from the bearm mines that pencil test at 10 bhn. I have run them bore lead free from about 700 fps all the way up.

[44man]

Nope. You just need throats larger than bore and a boolit a hair bigger than the throats.

I shoot a LEE 255gn rnfp that drops at .454 at 1100 fps in my RBH . My throats ,now that they match,are .4536 iirc the bore is .452 and my boolits are mostly water dropped "j"cores from the bearm mines that pencil test at 10 bhn. I have run them bore lead free from about 700 fps all the way up.
This is the answer!
However, if the throats are the correct size, a hard boolit can be shot that is smaller then the throats if it is at least bore size or a little over.
Perfect fit to throats is just not needed as long as the gun has larger throats then the bore.
Alloy has little bearing on leading as long as the boolit does not slump, deform or skid the rifling.
Soft lead that shoots good with no leading is too much work for me. There might be only one load, powder and charge.
That is why loads from different makers will act different with the same hardness boolits. It is what their load does to the boolit. Some loads will wipe out the grease grooves and slump the nose while still in the throats so you are not only skidding but are actually shooting a dry boolit.
I notice Gene says he has a "lead star" at the muzzle---NO, NO, it must be lube.
A million answers for every problem but 99.9% forget the mechanics of the revolver. About 2,000,000,000 old wives tales and gun rag stories.
Most revolver problems can be solved by sitting at your bench and imagining what happens with your boolit when you pull the trigger. Stare at the bench and think instead of wasting years and years trying things that fail.
Shooting softer for "obturation" is so persistent it baffles me! :mrgreen: