Lee Mold - out of round!?!

[oscarflytyer]

OK - so my dive into the world of cast boolits has been a VERY rocky road (see other recent posts)...

Then, tonight, I go back and do some more checking of the bullets - and guess what - they are out of round!!! (only me... - my typical luck)

There is a sweet spot on the bullet that is .432 (44 mold), but if you rotate the bullet 1/8-1/4 turns, they mic out b/n .434-.435! Also a listed 200 grn wt, but cast 216-217 grns...

I know I have seen a lot of posts where the QC on Lee molds isn't the best. Has anyone else had this problem? Am I missing something?

[mooman76]

Something is keeping your mould from closing all the way and that also solves your heavy boolit mystery. Check the mould and see what's keeping it from closing up tight.

[oscarflytyer]

Something is keeping your mould from closing all the way and that also solves your heavy boolit mystery. Check the mould and see what's keeping it from closing up tight.

OK - so I AM totally new at this game... And 2 of you have posted the exact same possible solution!

As I think about it - it makes sense... The .432 is the fron to back in the mold - that should be .432. Would make sense that the oversize is the side to side where the mold isnt closing completely...

So I am ONCE AGAIN off to check things...

Thanx to all!

[jmsj]

oscar,
You are not alone.
We covered the weight issue, I think your alloy is heavier than the alloy that Lee uses to spec their alloy.
Which way are the boolits out of round, along the seam of the mold or across the seam? Are you using a good micrometer or are you using dial calipers?
If they are out of round across the seam, are the mold halves completely clean and closing completely?
I don't remember if this is a TL design or a traditional lube groove mold but I think I remember you saying you needed .432. If this is a traditional lube groove I think sizing will straighten this out. If this is a TL design, the microbands might get ironed out. You'll just have to see on that one.
Lee molds are not alone in these issues. I just got back from casting a bunch of Lyman 452460's. I bought this mold used at a great price or so I thought. When I casted the first boolits they were .449" with the seam and .447" across the seam. I needed .452", so I had to lap and "beagle" the mold. After a little work the mold now cast .4515" with the seam and .452" across the seam.
Don't get too discouraged, it'll all work out.
Good luck, jmsj

[jmsj]

sorry,
mooman 76 beat me to it. I am a really slow typer.

[oscarflytyer]

oscar,
You are not alone.
We covered the weight issue, I think your alloy is heavier than the alloy that Lee uses to spec their alloy.
Which way are the boolits out of round, along the seam of the mold or across the seam? Are you using a good micrometer or are you using dial calipers?
If they are out of round across the seam, are the mold halves completely clean and closing completely?
I don't remember if this is a TL design or a traditional lube groove mold but I think I remember you saying you needed .432. If this is a traditional lube groove I think sizing will straighten this out. If this is a TL design, the microbands might get ironed out. You'll just have to see on that one.
Lee molds are not alone in these issues. I just got back from casting a bunch of Lyman 452460's. I bought this mold used at a great price or so I thought. When I casted the first boolits they were .449" with the seam and .447" across the seam. I needed .452", so I had to lap and "beagle" the mold. After a little work the mold now cast .4515" with the seam and .452" across the seam.
Don't get too discouraged, it'll all work out.
Good luck, jmsj

I checked the mold. There is a HUGE light gap from the inner edge of the front cavity to the inner edge of the rear cavity!

I just spent and hour+ using 4/0 steel wool on the mold, scrubbing it with Crest, and in total frustration - scraping the mold outer edges with a pen knife blade!!! Got to the point that I didn't give a $hit and figured I am only out $20 if I completely destroy the mold..

I am chocking it up as a defective mold... Going to try and get my $ back. Failing that - I will consider it a lesson learned and buy Lyman. I am very frustrated...

NOT the way to start down the path to casting your first boolits...

[timbuck]

Check to make sure that you are only squeezing the two mold handles and not the third sprue cutter handle, ( If it is a six cavity mold.)

[dubber123]

$ 20, I am assuming LEE 2 cavity. Making sure it is closed in the alignment pins, give it a good squeeze in a vise. This sometimes helps set the pins in the roughly machinied receiver grooves. .003" out of round, while not good, is far from as bad as it can be. As far as not buying LEE and going to Lyman, their reputation isn't any better lately. I'm not a rabid LEE fan either, I have just gotten junk from most of the makers. Keep at it, you'll get it.

[kelbro]

Had the same thing happen when I used my first Lee mold. If you didn't lube the alignment pins, you could have lead stuck to one of them preventing complete closure. Happened to me on a Lee mold and I couldn't see what was happening. The lead was in the hollow that the pin slides into. Scrubbed both pins and their mating grooves with a brass brush and the mold closed up right and I had round bullets.

[Maven]

Oscar, If the above suggestions don't work, try this: Knock out the pins holding the handle to the mold (you can put them back and repeen them later), then check to see whether the blocks are closing correctly. If not, try putting both blocks in the normally closed position in a padded bench vise and compress them as much as possible. Replace the handles, peen over the handle pins, lightly lube the horizontal pins and vertical ones (edges of the mold) and try casting again. I think your results will be better.


P.S. Is it possible a tiny burr of Al prevented the mold from closing properly in the first place?

[oscarflytyer]

Thanx to All for all the hints, tips, advice and assistance!

This forum is great! Everyone has been positive and helpful with my problems, both real and perceived. More than one has told me that a bullet a cpl thou out of round prob won't matter.

I worked with the mold more last night. Still a gap, but as suggested elsewhere, may close when heated. And if not, the vice idea is an option. I am also going to cast some more with it and compare the early bullets with new ones.

Last, as suggested elsewhere - I am going to shoot the bullets and see what happens. I know with some store bought cast (240s) the gun will put them all in the same hole at the 10 yd line. Also have some other baseline groups from working up loads with the 240. All is probably well with the bullets and they will shoot fine as is! A lot of To Do about nothing!

Wish me luck!

[mooman76]

If you size the boolits, it will make them round again and so will your barrel. The boolits don't have to be perfect to shoot well and at least they are bigger than need. Allot more problems when they are too small. You could try placing your mould on something flat when you close it. It helps it line up and close better. I tap mine when closing to help jar it closed.

[fredj338]

OK - so my dive into the world of cast boolits has been a VERY rocky road (see other recent posts)...

Then, tonight, I go back and do some more checking of the bullets - and guess what - they are out of round!!! (only me... - my typical luck)

There is a sweet spot on the bullet that is .432 (44 mold), but if you rotate the bullet 1/8-1/4 turns, they mic out b/n .434-.435! Also a listed 200 grn wt, but cast 216-217 grns...

I know I have seen a lot of posts where the QC on Lee molds isn't the best. Has anyone else had this problem? Am I missing something?
Nope! It's a Lee mold. You pay your money & take your chances. For $20-$35, what can you really expect? Send it back, they'll send you another. I agree, though, if run thru a sizer, they'll probably be fine.

[MtGun44]

Bull plate lube on the alignment features is often necessary with Lee molds to get them
to close properly without fiddling. If they will not close properly with 'fiddling' (wiggling and
"helping them" align) then there is a real problem. If fiddling allows the blocks to mate
properly, try the Bull Plate Lube - from Bull Shop, link at bottom of page.

Bill

[bigboredad]

oscar

do yourself a favor and go read the stickies at the top. Not just the top of this section but the very top. It will questions you don't even have yet and will cut down on the frustration level

[leadman]

I have found the steel pins in the 2 cavity molds sometimes have a burr of aluminum sticking up where they are shoved into the aluminum. Pocket knife takes care of this.

[acsteve]

so I should really expect .311-.316" on neach bullet too be a bunch?

[Bret4207]

Okay, this is just my opinion based on my 80+ plus moulds from Lee, Lyman, SAECO, RCBS, NEI, Yankee, B+M, H+G and probably a couple others I missed, along with 30+ years casting and 40+ shooting. NO mould casts a perfectly round boolit- none. No multi cavity mould produces boolits that are "the same". No sizer die produces a perfectly round boolit either, few are dead on spec. and for darn sure no barrel produces a round bullet or boolit. No mould casts dead on to weight specs either unless you are using the exact alloy the maker cut it too and he's dead on and both your scales are set exactly alike. IMO expecting a mould to drop a boolit dead on spec is a waste of time, and that goes for custom cuts too. I can show you a dozen different diameters on the exact same boolit by using 3 different measuring tools at different spots on the boolit. Measuring with a dial caliper and badmouthing the maker because in your alloy, at your mould temp, using your style of pouring, using your measuring tool and your measuring style it's under or over by a thou or three or it's 10 grains heavy or light in a 150 gr boolit is more wasted time. Yes, some makers tend to produce undersized boolits across their whole line, but that's as much the fault of the public for accepting their moulds as the makers. Yes, mould halves that don't line up or close completely are a pain but can usually be repaired. Out of square bases, out of round castings and sizer dies, etc. are also a pain, but can be worked with. Don't get mad, just step back and see what you can do. There is more than one mould in my collection that produces out of round, nasty looking boolits that shoot great.

So, step back and start at square one. In this particular case we have a booit with a minimum size of about .432 that weighs in about 215 grs. It's a little out of round and a little heavy, the weight caused by the casters alloy being a bit more generous in the lead component. The slight gap may or may not be a problem. Does it cause finning? Is there a discernible "bump" along the parting line? Are you getting complete and near perfect fill out? Do you intend to size the boolit? Will it chamber in your gun? The most important question- how does it shoot?

We all need to establish the variations we determine to be acceptable for use in this game. If you ever get some really good and accurate measuring instruments and learn to use them you'll find there are some variations in your equipment and what it produces that you never even were aware of. Figuring out if they really affect things and what you will and won't accept is up to you.

[Bret4207]

so I should really expect .311-.316" on neach bullet too be a bunch?

The question to ask is "why is it out of round"? Are the blocks closing completely? Are the handles allowing the mould to close correctly? That's #1+2. Is the mould up to temp? Is it filling out completely and perfectly? Is the out of round consistent along the boolits length? It's possible you have a truly out of round and out of spec. mould, but usually something .005 out of round will be a real bear to get to drop the castings. Is that the case? Is it a multi cavity mold? Are you finding the same thing across all the cavities? Are your pouring methods as consistent as you can make them? Are you allowing a large sprue puddle to form? Is venting an issue? Does the OOR occur with variations in pouring method, ie- pressure pour, off center, on center, air gap drop, etc.

Each mould is an individual and needs to be treated that way. If you've exhausted the possibilities then it's possible your mould was produced poorly and got by the QC checks. In that case returning it would be appropriate. And yes, I would consider .005 OOR on every casting to be "a bunch".

[pdawg_shooter]

I never worry about a little out of round. If the size die dont fix it, shoving it down a round bore with 15 to 50 thousand psi of pressure will take care of the problem.

[oscarflytyer]

Update - and Thanx to all...

Finally shot the 44 boolits. Once you find the load, ain't nothing wrong with the bullets. Had one load that produced basically one big ragged hole w/ one flyer - probably me. They will shoot fine - as most everyone here said they would!