33 Win vs. 348 Win with cast ?

[missionary5155]

Greetings
In our real world of Cast Boolits is there a difference between the 33 Winchesterand the 348 Winchester ? I realize the rifles are basicly equal in strength but what about the actual balistics of the two cartriges loaded with our home brewed projectiles ?
I am about to buy a 33 Winchester in a model 1886 (always wanted one [smilie=w:) and want to know more about real life reloading.
Thanks ! Mike in Peru

[shotman]

difference is a 30-30 and a 375 33 is easy recoil 348 AINT about 15 gr and look out

[405]

I shoot both. One of my most accurate original 1886s is a take down 86 in 33 Win. Go figure. The 33 is one of those overlooked, semi-obsolete things that allowed a few more originals in 86 to survive in the collectors market and up until recently were way under-valued based on condition. When I was hunting down 86s in the market the premium for the 45-70 with top bore condition was a full $3,000 more than a comparable 33. The 33 Win is a really good cartridge and shoots jbullets and cast equally well in the 86.

[elk hunter]

Congratulations, any 86 is a treasure, but a 33 Winchester would be a fun one to work with.

My Lyman #38 Handbook, copyright 1951, shows the 33 Winchester with a 195 grain cast and 18 grains of 4759 at an estimated 1650 FPS, the 348 with a 190 grain cast and 25 grains of 4759 as the same 1650 FPS, again estimated. Doesn't look like you will notice much difference with cast bullets other than your 33 will use less powder to get the same velocity, jacketed is another story.

Good luck, post some pictures and let us know how it shoots.

[6pt-sika]

Never owned a Winchester 1886 or a 348 .

Did however have a very nice Marlin 1895 of about 1914 vintage in 33 WCF . I loaded the Lyman 338320 in mine and pushed it with XMP5744 . Old gun shot very nicely for what little I worked with it when in my possesion .

I wish I'd kept it long enough to try Ranch Dogs 338 offering as well .

I tried for awhile to get a RCBS 33-200 FN GC but was unable as they had stopped making the mold with the gas check when I got the 1895 . And ones on Fleabay were a bit over priced .

[missionary5155]

Thanks fellers
The little I can find on the web it looks like a 200 grainer is about the average for a mold weight. Any one shooting a 240-250 grain ? I tend to like heavy boolits.
Any body actually crono some loads. I am not looking to make a mag rifle but it is an 86 action and should be able to run with some reasonable pressure. Bolt thrust should be about equal to the 45-70 .

[JFE]

Cant help on 33 Win figs but I'm pushing 272gr cast pills at around 2150 fps out of my B-71. I've had them going higher but accuracy fell off past that point. Maybe a slower powder might have produced more accurate higher velocity loads, but I was pretty happy with this result.

When it comes to cast you wouldnt think there'd be much in it between those two. The difference is probably more about availability of moulds and components.

As an aside I see Woodleigh are making a 200gr FN Weldcore (bonded core) bullets in 338 and these look ideal for the 33 Win and 338 ME. They started making 250gr FN Weldcore in 348 a while back too. Much better finished than Barnes originals IMO and here they're cheaper too.

[45 2.1]

Thanks fellers
The little I can find on the web it looks like a 200 grainer is about the average for a mold weight. Any one shooting a 240-250 grain ? I tend to like heavy boolits.
Any body actually crono some loads. I am not looking to make a mag rifle but it is an 86 action and should be able to run with some reasonable pressure. Bolt thrust should be about equal to the 45-70 .

Either will get the job done. The Browning Jap 71s are very accurate. I had Veral Smith make a custom 250 for one and it is more accurate than the irons allow. Check out (or PM) BRP for a possible 235 gr. to 240 gr. 348 boolit soon. I wouldn't pass up a '86 in for the 33 Win. if one came by.

[peerlesscowboy]

Either will get the job done. The Browning Jap 71s are very accurate. I had Veral Smith make a custom 250 for one and it is more accurate than the irons allow. Check out (or PM) BRP for a possible 235 gr. to 240 gr. 348 boolit soon. I wouldn't pass up a '86 in for the 33 Win. if one came by.
What do you size to? I just ordered an RCBS 200gr FN mould for my Miroku Browning mod 71, .348 winchester. Haven't ordered a sizing die yet as I'm thinking I'd like to see what size they drop from the mould and if they'll chamber full sized before I decide what size die to order?

John C. Saubak

[45 2.1]

What do you size to? I just ordered an RCBS 200gr FN mould for my Miroku Browning mod 71, .348 winchester. Haven't ordered a sizing die yet as I'm thinking I'd like to see what size they drop from the mould and if they'll chamber full sized before I decide what size die to order?

John C. Saubak

I have an old Lyman 185 gr., a GB 235 gr. and the custom LBT 250 gr. All of them can be sized 0.350", but it would be good for you to see if they will chamber unsized in your rifle. Accuracy is better that way. I have 0.350" and 0.352" sizers. If it fits without reduction, it gets lubed in the oversize 0.352", otherwise a trip thru the 0.350" happens.

[peerlesscowboy]

I have an old Lyman 185 gr., a GB 235 gr. and the custom LBT 250 gr. All of them can be sized 0.350", but it would be good for you to see if they will chamber unsized in your rifle. Accuracy is better that way. I have 0.350" and 0.352" sizers. If it fits without reduction, it gets lubed in the oversize 0.352", otherwise a trip thru the 0.350" happens.
Thank's for the info'....... as long as I'm picking your brain; what do you use for a case neck expander/mouth bell? I looked at the Lyman website and they don't list an "M" die for the .348. I suppose I could get one in .35 cal and turn it down :confused:

John C. Saubak

[jtaylor1960]

RCBS makes an expander die in 348.

[peerlesscowboy]

RCBS makes an expander die in 348.
Thank's, I'll be able to get one from RCBS then :-D

[insanelupus]

Mike,

I have hunted with both (though more with a Model 71 than the 1886 and all were borrowed rifles) and I've shot 2 or 3 whitetails with the .348 (none with the .33 WCF, but another in my hunting party has). As to the ballistics of the two rounds in real world use, I'd say there isn't that much differnece.

Now, that said, if I have a choice between the two, I'll take the Model 71 each and every time. I absolutely am in love with the Model 71 as the pistol grip design packs terrific. I've never handled a pistol grip 1886 (there were some made, I've just never handled an orignal to my recollection).

Also, I think the action of the Model 71 is smoother to cycle. Granted they are both practically the same design, with the exception being the bevel of the locking lugs, but that makes a difference for the rifles I've handled.

But why wonder about both of 'em. Buy both and give us a full run down report! :D

[45 2.1]

thank's for the info'....... As long as i'm picking your brain; what do you use for a case neck expander/mouth bell? I looked at the lyman website and they don't list an "m" die for the .348. I suppose i could get one in .35 cal and turn it down :confused:

John c. Saubak


rcbs makes an expander die in 348.

rcbs.................