Sizing bullets

[oscarflytyer]

Cast my first boolits. Lee 44s. Mold is oversize. 44-200 is dropping 216-217 grn bullets - this is fine and preferable for me.

But... as cast size is b/n .432-.434. My BH cylinder slugs at .432 and barrel slugs .431. I had planned to size using a Lee sizer (don't have a lubri-sizer doodle...)at .432. BUT - Lee only goes up to .430!

Can you buy a Lee (or same style?) sizer in .432? If not - how hard is it to 'beagle'/ ream out a sizer die to .432? Thanx

[stubshaft]

It's not too hard to ream out a Lee sizer a couple of thousandths. There are numerous threads on this site to explain how to do it. OR You can contact Buckshot who is a member here and makes the same style sizer at affordable prices in the exact size that you want.(would go with .433" myself)

[mdi]

One "trick" is to push your boolits through one of the .432" cylinders for a quick push through sizing. I've opened up a Lee size die a little (to .432") with a split end dowel, crocus cloth, oil, and a hand drill. Wrap the crocus cloth around the dowel and spin it in the die with the drill. Keep it oiled and keep it moving, in and out. Check often. I've also heard Lee will make custom sizes if you give them a call.

FWIW, prolly wouldn't hurt anything to shoot them as cast...

[RobS]

Size .001-.002 over groove diameter and you'll be setting your revolver up to have less issues concerning leading and easier outcomes in regards to accuracy. You can rely on obturation with a small bullet for groove diameter, but don't plan on it being easy thats for sure.

Sizing over cylinder throats will work only if your loaded round's front drive band doesn't make it's way into the cylinder throats. If you are loading to a COAL were the front drive band is then you have to size at or .0005 under. Since you have a .431 bore I would go .432 if your boolits are going to be seated with the front drive band in the cylinder throats and .433 otherwise.

Another note:
.432 will be give you a sizing die that will work for every boolit design.

If you don't want to hone one out yourself then I give a +1 to Buckshot here on the forum; excellent work.

[357tex]

I would shoot them as cast.I almost never size pistol boolits.I like lee because I have never,got one under size.

[peerlesscowboy]

Buffalo Arms...........RCBS/Lyman sizing dies are available in .001" incrediments from .427" to .434"

[RobS]

Buffalo Arms...........RCBS/Lyman sizing dies are available in .001" incrediments from .427" to .434"

That would be great if he used a Lyman/RCBS lubricator.

[kelbro]

Ranch Dog also has them in stock:

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_34&products_id=65

[oscarflytyer]

It's not too hard to ream out a Lee sizer a couple of thousandths. There are numerous threads on this site to explain how to do it. OR You can contact Buckshot who is a member here and makes the same style sizer at affordable prices in the exact size that you want.(would go with .433" myself)

So you recommend bbl size + 2?

[oscarflytyer]

Ok - was going over the cast bullets some more... Guess what - they are out of round! There seems to be a single sweet spot where they mic .432. Then as you rotate the bullet 1/8 to 1/4 turns, and remeasure - it goes up to b/n .434-.435.

So... the bullets/mold is out of round. After reading your suggestions, I am sure the bullet will swage down/fill the bbl/cylinders. But I do NOT want an out of round bullet/mold. Figure they would shoot like rocks!

Think I am going to try to get Lee to exchange the mold. Hopefully new one will weigh about 210-215 grns, and be round and be about .434! I can hope, CAN'T I?!?

[Hometek]

I would shoot them as cast.I almost never size pistol boolits.I like lee because I have never,got one under size.

You must get all the good ones. Admittedly I don't have many molds (2cav 9mm and 40sw, 6cav 9mm,40sw, and 45acp) but I haven't recieved any lee molds that weren't .0015-.002 undersized. All my sizer dies have been the same size as the dies. I'm in the process now of trying to open the dies up. I have a gunsmith friend that claims to have a method. I'm going over there tomorrow and will report back if it works.

[RobS]

There is a possibility that your current mold may not be closing all the way. Hold the mold up to the light and see if you see any light between the mold halves; there could be a small bit of lead between the halves or even a burr in there somewhere. As to finding a Lee mold cast out at .434...........good luck as .432 is maxing things out.

An out of round boolit may not have the negative effects you might think. They do end up being swaged down when they hit the forcing cone and barrel and to a point of being as round as your barrel is. :) I've seen the Lyman 452651 (325 grain GC mold) cast out of round by .002 and shoot very accurately.

Don't forget: If the boolit designs front drive band is not going to extend into the cylinder throats then .434 will work, but if they are going to extend into the cylinder throats you will have a hard time putting a .434 diameter boolit into a .432 hole.

[oscarflytyer]

There is a possibility that your current mold may not be closing all the way. Hold the mold up to the light and see if you see any light between the mold halves; there could be a small bit of lead between the halves or even a burr in there somewhere. As to finding a Lee mold cast out at .434...........good luck as .432 is maxing things out.

RS - You NAILED it! I checked the mold. There is a HUGE light gap from the inner edge of the front cavity to the inner edge of the rear cavity!

I just spent and hour+ using 4/0 steel wool on the mold, scrubbing it with Crest, and in total frustration - scraping the mold outer edges with a pen knife blade!!! Got to the point that I didn't give a $hit and figured I am only out $20 if I completely destroy the mold..

I am chocking it up as a defective mold... Going to try and get my $ back. Failing that - I will consider it a lesson learned and buy Lyman. I am very frustrated...

[Bret4207]

Okay, first off, cool down. You skipped the basic first question- how does it shoot? Do the boolits fill out completely? Are the blocks closing all the way now? Seriously, you're going about this the wrong way. Start at square one and read the "Leementing" stickies. Then, once you have the mould closing correctly, cast up a mess of as near perfect boolits as you can. Based on your earlier measurements you may be able to shoot them as cast. While I love perfectly round boolits, I don't think I have any moulds (Lee, Lyman/Ideal, RCBS, NEI, Cramer, H+G, LBT, SAECO, B+M) that drop them perfectly round. They aren't even perfectly round out of the sizer and darn sure they aren't perfectly round coming out of muzzle because your barrel isn't perfectly round! What you need to establish is some acceptable (to your gun and load) variations and limits. If those boolits will chamber, shoot them. Start with low end loads and observe/record/test. See what the gun tells you.

I'll bet there's a good number of guys here who can relate their experiences firing "culls", boolits that were out of round. not filled completely, etc., into smaller groups than the "perfect" boolits fired. The barrel is the final sizer and your gun and laod will determine what they want in the end. Start with proper static fit (fill the throat and grooves) and see where your dynamic fit takes you. Chances are you chamber and throat aren't perfectly aligned, your brass doesn't have perfect neck wall thickness, your barrel isn't perfectly round or concentric and even throughout it's length, etc. All those tiny variations add up. You just need to back up a little and realize we work within those variations and we get great results once we realize what the gun wants.

So slow down, calm down and start at the beginning. If you do need to open up a Lee sizer it's very easy to do or have done.

[onesonek]

Good advice there from Bret, as there are darn few things that are perfect.

"RS - You NAILED it! I checked the mold. There is a HUGE light gap from the inner edge of the front cavity to the inner edge of the rear cavity! "

The other thing is, one may see a "light gap" when the mold is cold but not when hot, or visaversa. Or if one isn't putting enough pressure on the handles,,they seem to bow and flex to some degree. Likely due to the cavities themselves. Providing something isn't between them, such a speck of lead. If that is the case, I wouldn't try scraping the mold face, rather just put a touch of lube on it, then heat it up and wipe it off.

[oscarflytyer]

Thanx ALL for the input and advice and assistance.

I leemented the mold last night. Did some other things to it as well. It still has the gap, but as mentioned above, may close when hot. Also missed the lube note.

And I had already decided I was going to at least shoot 50 of the cast bullets to see what happens. Lee agreed to replace the mold (no questions asked - thought that was great). But I am going to fire things up again (tonight I hope) and start over, per se and see what happens.

Will check the 'new' bullets the mold throws. If they are the same, will load a batch and shoot. If they are different/better, will probably also continue to shoot the first batch just so I can see if there are any real differences in performance, etc.

Nothing like learning by doing and making all the mistakes possible at once!!!

:brokenima

[RobS]

As a favor to yourself, read up on boolit age hardening and how your sized brass can swage down on cast boolits.

Here is a tread in the beginnings that I feel will help many newbies; keep an eye on it as you continue to explore the silver stream.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=1126993#post1126993

[mdi]

Ok - was going over the cast bullets some more... Guess what - they are out of round! There seems to be a single sweet spot where they mic .432. Then as you rotate the bullet 1/8 to 1/4 turns, and remeasure - it goes up to b/n .434-.435.

So... the bullets/mold is out of round. After reading your suggestions, I am sure the bullet will swage down/fill the bbl/cylinders. But I do NOT want an out of round bullet/mold. Figure they would shoot like rocks!

Think I am going to try to get Lee to exchange the mold. Hopefully new one will weigh about 210-215 grns, and be round and be about .434! I can hope, CAN'T I?!?

JUST SHOOT 'EM. Your gun won't blow up. Use common sense, shoot them, and report back. Why would you think they'll be accurate as "rocks"? Inspect your mold for tiny specs of lead, burrs and vary your casting temp. Don't overthink the situation...

[chuckbuster]

Accurate as Rocks? I can only hope my boolits are....
http://www.wimp.com/toogood/

[Char-Gar]

Oscar.. Step one is to shoot your pistol with what you have! Most likely you will find that works just fine. To much time, money and worry is spent of issues that really are not problems.

[geargnasher]

So you recommend bbl size + 2?

NO. If the groove is .431 and the cylinder throats are .432, then depending on boolit style .432 boolits would probably work the best.

The rub with revolvers is their dimensions can be all over the map, and that greatly affects how well it will shoot with a given boolit size.

Here's what you want in a revolver: Cylinder throats from .0005" to .0030" larger than the groove diameter, with .0010" being pretty ideal. Generally, you want your boolits to be *just* smaller than your throats so they will chamber, even when the gun is dirty, but if you use a boolit that has a short front driving bandset to "pilot" on the tapered leade of the cylinder throat, you can use boolits bigger than your throats and have the boolit sized twice as it goes through the gun. That's not ideal, but it works. The less you size your boolits before they're in the air flying toward a target the better, so having a revolver with minimally larger-than-groove throats and using a boolit about throat size is usually a pretty good setup.

If you cylinder throats are smaller than groove diameter, you have no choice but to ream them out.

Gear

[oscarflytyer]

Gear

Thanx. Then I should be good. All throats appear to slug at .432. Bbl at .431. It is a new Ruger BH 44 Spc.

My cast are running .432-.434. I ordered a RD .432 sizer. Went ahead and loaded some of the .434 bullets to shoot next week. But think I will end up sizing the rest once I get the .432 sizer. Logic for this is that it is that much less I have to bell the case to start the bullet. I hate to bell a case mouth, but I hate using BB boolits WAY more!