.45 ACP revolver test coming up.

[44man]

I made some bushings for a few cases to take a SP primer to try in the revolver.
I will post after we shoot.

[HATCH]

seems like a lot of work.
Can you explain to me whats the advantage or purpose of doing this?

[Tom W.]

He's retired.. Let him have fun. Other than that , get some of the Winchester NT cases...
However if you run out of LP primers and a SHTF scenario develops, it can be a good thing to know.:popcorn:

[Char-Gar]

What would be the advantage of a Small Pistol primer over a Large Pistol primer.

[Tom W.]

I can see no advantage, when given some NT brass I just made sure it was kept separate from my "regular" brass. It shot just as well. I ended up taking the NT brass to the woods and blasted away, unconcerned about finding it.

[white eagle]

gives everyone else something to talk about

[kmag]

Have shot a bit of the NT brass in both pistol and revolver. Seems to give a little less volicity, but no practical difference with the same load. I keep all the NT brass I come across for hard times. When primers were in short supply was glad I had a supply of 38 spec. brass that used large primers.

[RobS]

The reason to use a SP primer is to create less primer ignition or less pressure from the primer so there is less possiblilities of the primer moving the boolit forward from crimp before the powder starts a good ignition. He's experiencing less than his desired accuracy so he's trying another approach to making load development work for his revolver. Shooting a revolver is different than an auto so primer difference may be just the ticket he's after.

[Tom W.]

Uhhh, O.K. I guess.....

[Grapeshot]

Nice Idea. Have three .454 Casull cartridges that I use small pistol primers in. I drilled the flash hole to 3/32nds inch and they ignite Red Dot and Unique with no problems. I also have fifty plus .45 ACP by Federal that use small pistol primers and they also have, from the factory, larger than normal flash holes. They shoot just fine with any of the folowing powders and a 250 grain bullet; Bullseye, Trailboss, Unique, Red Dot, HP38, or Clays.

[44man]

The reason to use a SP primer is to create less primer ignition or less pressure from the primer so there is less possiblilities of the primer moving the boolit forward from crimp before the powder starts a good ignition. He's experiencing less than his desired accuracy so he's trying another approach to making load development work for his revolver. Shooting a revolver is different than an auto so primer difference may be just the ticket he's after.
Yep, those were my thoughts. There is such a small space from the flash hole to the base of the boolit that I am thinking the LP primer has too much pressure.
Whether a SP primer will change anything is up in the air so I just made 7 bushings.
I have to wait for my friend to bring the gun over and we have some nasty weather coming in.

[frank505]

I get quite a bit of 45 brass from deputy. It seems it has shot out of something with a grossly oversize chamber and some cases have a huge bulge on the bottom. I'll bet they were not shot from a 1911. I will refrain from voicing an opinion of the "cat vomit" pistol they were shot in.
Most are small pistol primer cases because these are much safer(?) This is another stupid idea, we are saving them for making bullet jackets out of...............

[44man]

No safety issues at all and regular LP primers work just fine in a 1911.
I just want to see if a SP will affect the revolver accuracy. We can't get better then 2" at 25 yards and get some fliers.
After drilling out .454 brass to take a LP mag primer and running test loads to 55,000 psi without even a flat primer, I sure am not worried about the little ACP with 5 gr of Unique! :bigsmyl2:

[Shooter6br]

It benchrest shooting small pistol cases are more accurate. 6PPC and 6 BR all use small pistol primers vs large. Does it matter in a pistol? Dont know.Good method to use up small primers in a large primer case i guess

[44man]

OK, John came out and we cast boolits for a few hours and then went down to shoot his gun. It was sloppy with slush all the way down the hill so I just took 2 targets.
I took the first three and the SP primer cut the group WAY down.
John shot the rest and had the same thing on his target, 1". He then shot a bunch of the LP primer loads and they just scattered all over and the best I could do was about 2-1/2"-3".
Even though it was just a quick test, it really showed us something, the SP primer works so we need more testing but it is hard with just a few cases.
Hang on, I have to delete a bunch of pictures. [smilie=l:

[44man]

Here is how they shot.
Now where can he buy brass for the .45 ACP with small pockets?

[Moonie]

http://oncefiredbrass.com/45acpspeer.aspx

[bigboredad]

I recall reading a article in a gun rag but I can't remember wich one or who it was written by. But any way the writer did quite a lot of testing with the sp brass and came to the conclusion that the sp was producing better groups. So I believe once again 44man is the man when it comes to working with stubborn guns

[44man]

http://oncefiredbrass.com/45acpspeer.aspx
Thank you, looks perfect.

[44man]

Looks like a bad bolt face. No indications of pressure on the head. Then what gun were they shot in?

[Rio Grande]

Well Tom W. posted it, and he's right on, there's brass for .45acp out there now that takes small primers, the Win "NT" marked supposedly , and I have picked up from the range Federal cases that have definitely small primers, I will check size at the shop today.
I think its a pain since thats just one more thing for a scrounger to sort out (like sorting .45 and .40),
BUT I think it's good - and not just SHTF, remember the primer shortage ? (what short memories we have!) What if you had .45 to load and only small primers?
Not to mention it may increase accuracy, and MAY allow higher pressures and velocity.
Anybody that wants to toss that brass out, send it to 44man and me!

[Lloyd Smale]

theres enough differnce in accuracy between differnt lg primers in the same load that it would be a tough call to say a small primer is more accurate unless you used every one you could find and compared it to every large one you found and used 3 or 4 differnt guns. Ive got two 1911s that will shoot 1/2 to 3/4s of an inch a 25 yards with lg primers so i have to doubt if the large primers are detrimental to accuracy.

[44man]

theres enough differnce in accuracy between differnt lg primers in the same load that it would be a tough call to say a small primer is more accurate unless you used every one you could find and compared it to every large one you found and used 3 or 4 differnt guns. Ive got two 1911s that will shoot 1/2 to 3/4s of an inch a 25 yards with lg primers so i have to doubt if the large primers are detrimental to accuracy.
True but my concern is the revolver. We have had super accuracy in the 1911 too with normal LP primers and we still need to test the 1911.
But I did try every primer brand I have with no luck from the revolver. The worst was the WW marked for standard or magnum. Fed, Rem and CCI all shot the same.
John has a 1911 I built up for him years ago that I was able to shoot 1/2" groups with at 30 yards from a bag. It cost him a bundle for parts and all that was original was the frame. It took me a long time to hand fit every part. The trigger is 1-1/2#.
Then Dave has a DAN Wesson 1911 that I managed a 1/2" group with at 50 yards ONCE, but he never comes out with the same loads. Different boolits, powder and charge every time for the last 30 years I have known him and for every gun. I have never known him to load the same thing twice! :holysheep
Anyway we have a few test beds that can really show if there is a difference. If there is, I will post.
I have strange friends! [smilie=l: Another bought a varmint rifle and loaded 10 each of every powder, bullet and load. He had boxes of loads and never put a single shot on paper. He went out and shot them all at woodchucks! :redneck:

[Grapeshot]

Look at the primers on the link for the "once fired" brass. Looks like proof loads shot in a 1911 with a stuck firing pin. I don't think I have ever seen a primer look that bad before!!

LongPoint

Not proof loads. Looks more like they were fired from GLOCK or another auto using a FLAT firing pin.

[MtGun44]

Had friend with a 1050 set of the primer tube due to one of the darned small primer
.45 ACP Speer cases. He is not happy with Speer. It is very load to set of a tube of
primers, he reports. No personal injury, new parts on the way from Dillon.

Wonder why Speer did that? Screw up everyone, darned inconsiderate of handloaders
to blow away a 100 yr standard - just because.

Bill

[AnthonyB]

Do a search and you should find past references for a member selling SP 45 ACP brass at a much better price than the one in the link. I think I paid $20/1000 plus shipping for what I bought from him. Couldn't pass it up at that price. Send me a PM if you need a couple hundred for further testing - I can handle that but don't want to get rid of large numbers.
Tony

[AnthonyB]

MtGun44:
I load 45 ACP on a Dillon 550 and have learned to seat primers very gently. I can't imagine operating my press with enough force to detonate a primer.
Tony

[softpoint]

Look at the primers on the link for the "once fired" brass. Looks like proof loads shot in a 1911 with a stuck firing pin. I don't think I have ever seen a primer look that bad before!!

LongPoint

Looks like Glock fired brass to me.

[Bass Ackward]

I'm interested in this because I have no experience here. My 625s have different firing pins than my other Smiths. Those are smaller and pointed. The 625 pin is MUCH larger in diameter, is longer, and is completely rounded. So it requires even more force than other models of Smiths, which of coarse the lighter springs don't address.

When I look at the dent in my large primers, I can't possibly imagine how that HUGE pin will get deep enough to set off a small primer. If it hits the edge of the primer, the vertical portion of the cup will be strengthened negating any advantage from a softer style of primer. That's why the AR brass is a real aid to ignition because that thick rim holds brass consistently at that depth as opposed to ACP brass in the clips that is bound to have some movement in the extractor notch of the case.

[runfiverun]

from what i have been hearing all the federal ammo at walmart has been small primed lately.
get used to the small primers.

and plus one to the AR brass adding to accuracy in the 625.

[44man]

from what i have been hearing all the federal ammo at walmart has been small primed lately.
get used to the small primers.

and plus one to the AR brass adding to accuracy in the 625.
I find it kind of funny that what I have found is being done more and more by factories. Standard primers in the .44 and small primers in the .45 ACP. Is there a method to my madness?
But then they still make .454 brass for a SR primer???????
Then the stupidity of needing more and more pressure to shoot inline muzzle loaders with shotgun primers. Why not just leave the powder out and use a primer? I suppose the compressed chunks of fake BP need more pressure to fire.
The hardest thing to buck is what has been used all along with no thought to what actually is going on.
Don't you know the .44 MAGNUM NEEDS A MAGNUM PRIMER because of the name! The .38 works fine with a regular primer but the .357 mag NEEDS a mag primer.
Next we will see a .32 with a pocket for a .50 BMG primer!

[exile]

So, what you are saying is that if you use a primer that is too hot for the load, the primer itself will move the boolit out of the case prior to the optimal ignition of the powder, thus degrading accuracy? If I have this right, it sounds like in the hotter loads this could also contribute to flame cutting of the topstrap or erosion of the forcing cone? (based on the discussion about the guy who kept having problems with forcing cones on his Ruger SBH).

(I am using AA # 9 in .41 magnum and 32 H & R, so it makes me glad they don't specify a magnum primer with this powder.)

exile

[44man]

So, what you are saying is that if you use a primer that is too hot for the load, the primer itself will move the boolit out of the case prior to the optimal ignition of the powder, thus degrading accuracy? If I have this right, it sounds like in the hotter loads this could also contribute to flame cutting of the topstrap or erosion of the forcing cone? (based on the discussion about the guy who kept having problems with forcing cones on his Ruger SBH).

(I am using AA # 9 in .41 magnum and 32 H & R, so it makes me glad they don't specify a magnum primer with this powder.)

exile
Yes, exactly. But it is not primer heat, it is primer pressure that causes the problems. You need heat. You need good ignition.
You can have troubles with what are called "low pressure loads" too.
The velocity you shoot has no bearing on cone damage and you can ruin a gun with those "plinking" loads as fast as the full power ones. The solution for both is the same. Keep the boolit in place until good ignition.
296 and H110 are easy to ignite if you don't blow them away from the fire. That is the reason they say to not cut the charge.

[Moonie]

I load 45acp on a progressive press, sometimes I miss a small primed one, really hate them...

[44man]

I load 45acp on a progressive press, sometimes I miss a small primed one, really hate them...
I can see where it would drive you nuts! :holysheep