A Question on .40 S&W Autos

[klcarroll]

As a favor to a friend, I took on the task of reloading his .40 S&W rounds for him: …….So now I have dies, molds, and sizers for a caliber that I do not personally shoot.

This just seems wrong.

…..Consequently, I have been considering picking up a weapon in this caliber; …..But the selection and price range have made this a rather daunting task.

One item that REALLY confuses me is the “Double Action Only” status that seems to be standard with both Ruger and Smith & Wesson automatics. I have always liked the way my old single action 1911 Colts shoot, and I know that I would be REALLY unhappy if I had to drag the trigger through a full double action pull for each and every shot!

Is that really what you get with these “D/A Only” Rugers and Smiths??

I did look into visiting the local range and renting one to find out: …..But between the Range Fee, the Rental Fee, and the cost of a box of their ammo (mandatory), it turned into a $65 outing! ……And those of you who know me know that I am, first and foremost, CHEAP! (I also used to hate people who would come into the shop and dry fire new weapons, …..so I am disinclined to do that either!)

Any opinions will be appreciated!

Kent

[9.3X62AL]

Kent--

I'm not closely acquainted with DAO autopistols, much more so with traditional single-action or double-action self-loaders. The few DAO examples I've shot seemed to have somewhat smoother D/A strokes with less end stacking than those found on traditional D/A autos, but I stress that my sample population was quite small.

You have a lot more options than ever, these days. I have a CZ-75B in 40 S&W that I think the world of. It is a traditional D/A pistol that lacks decocking ability, but can be safely carried and operated in Condition 1 mode like a 1911A1 or Browning HP. There are 40 S&W variants on the 1911A1 platform (Springfield Armory has at least one), and the Browning HP is so chambered. CZ offers a decocker variant if you prefer starting the music in D/A.

The Glock influence can't be discounted, and a number of striker-fired autopistols are out there. My usual social attire includes a Glock 23. Its trigger can be learned easily, and an aftermarket barrel removes the question about cast boolits and reloads. They're as ugly as a mud fence, but the things flat-out WORK.

SIG-Sauer offers traditional D/A autopistols as well as DAOs and even a few SAOs. The P-226 (full size) and P-229 (compact) are EXCELLENT service pistols in 40 S&W, perhaps best of breed. And are priced accordingly.

I would choose a preferred trigger system first, then examine what's available in that mode and go from there.

[Piedmont]

klcarroll, I have a Smith M&P 9mm I bought last year. It's trigger is not revolver-like. It isn't like a 1911 target gun but is perfectly acceptable for a defense and informal target pistol. I have shot a Springfield XDM and several Glocks. They are all fine and the triggers are much better than say the DA first shot on a Sig DA-to-SA mechanism.

Most gun shops will let you dryfire and that will save you rental money and tell you what the trigger is like.

[crabo]

What does your friend shoot?

[klcarroll]

What does your friend shoot?


He has a Taurus PT100.

He likes it, ......and it seems to behave itself; ........But somehow, Taurus products just don't make my pulse-rate rise.

Kent

[HeavyMetal]

CZ 75 a good choice, Star had a firestar in 40 good luck finding one, EAA has several and, of course, several 1911 clone companies offer the platform in 40.

Don't own a 40 but do help a kid I work with feed his. He's got one of those XD's.

Potential for a 5 inch gun is pretty good But that might not be a deciding factor for you.

I've shot the DAO guns, after living with tuned 1911's all my life they suck.

Someday I might buy a 40 the short list will be:

Firestar

CZ-75 if I can find one with an ambi safety

EAA witness, a CZ 75 clone, check thier web site these certainly are looking better these days.

Taurus offers a 1911 in 38 super and 40 S&W

Charles Daly had one in a 1911 format

never can tell what mght pop up on the "grid" when you least expect it.

[rtracy2001]

My 40 smith pistol is a Ruger P-944 (but it only says P-94 on the side, go figure?). Anyway, it is a DA-SA just like (as I understand it) the standard 1911 action works. The first trigger pull is a bit tough, and I do need to work on it, but subsequent pulls are quite light. I also like the decocker safety.

As far as dry firing goes, invest in a couple of snap caps, and tell the folks what you are up to when you go into the shop. Most won't mind, the snap caps ensure no damage to the weapon, and if you let them know ahead of time they won't panic when you start loading the magazine.

[Phat Man Mike]

had a PT-140 and was a really nice pistol.. only sold it to move up the chain of things.. but I liked the trigger it had.. :castmine:

[jameslovesjammie]

Another vote for the CZ 75B. You can carry it cocked and locked like a 1911 or with a round in the chamber with the hammer down and have a d/a first shot and single action afterwards.

You mention that you are a 1911 fan. So was Col. Jeff Cooper, and he thought VERY highly of the CZ 75.

[klcarroll]

Thanks to everyone who responded!!

.......I looks like I'm going to be taking a very serious look at the CZ!


Kent

[Potsy]

I've got a Ruger P-94 DC .40. Shoots pretty well with jacketed, but I've not tried cast. It's fed well for the 100 rounds or so my wife and I have put through it. She likes it so it's her nightstand gun. I tote my Kimber as I like the feel of it better.
FWIW, a buddy put a 3 pound spring and an overtravel stop in one of his Glocks. Gave me a whole new appreciation for them.

[Trey45]

I have 4 40 S&W's, for years I only had one, a variant one HKUSP fullsize stainless. Then came the Beretta's, now I'm hooked on the CZ75B. If I was told that I could only have one 40SW pistol for the rest of my life, I'd pick the CZ. It would be difficult for me to say goodbye to the HK, but the CZ still wins.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=415&pictureid=2849

[Stick_man]

Kent, my advice would be to keep an open mind about the striker fired guns as well. I have an M&P40 and really like it. The trigger comes a little rough from the factory, but smooths out nicely after about 400-500 rounds through it. It has the interchangeable backstraps to accommodate different sized shooting hands, has a really nice natural pointing ability, and a 15+1 capacity (in those states that still allow it). It is often referred to as "the next generation Glock" but I would dare say that there is nothing you could do to get the M&P to be as ugly as the Glock.

It doesn't have an external hammer like the 1911's or a grip safety like the XDs do, but it is a wonderful shooting gun that is made in the USA.

[9.3X62AL]

In the context of CAST BOOLITS.......the CZ-75B in 40 S&W uses a twist rate of 1-16", rather than the 1-10" or 4 turns/meter twist that most OEM 40 S&W barrels use.

I wonder what COL Cooper thought of the CZ-97 in 45 ACP. :)

[bbs70]

I've had a Glock model 22 in 40 cal for some years now.
I've have owned S&W and Ruger 9mm and a Ruger .40 cal.
I prefer the 40 Glock.

It is light for carry and a great shooter.
I put in a Wolff barrel and had a target trigger put in.
Have had zero problems with it

Don't know about the ugly part though, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder holder I guess.

[9.3X62AL]

Don't know about the ugly part though, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder holder I guess.

True that. Just the same, the Glock is no Browning Hi-Power or Beretta 96 in an aesthetic sense.

[sqlbullet]

Gotta throw the plug out there.

Your 40 S&W dies will also load 10mm Auto. Since this seems to be a hobby/fun gun anyway, why not get the 10mm?

EAA Witness is available in 10mm in the CZ 75B format. I would suggest a Witness Elite Match. Mine is a tack driver.

Colt, Kimber, Fusion and STI all have 1911/2011 guns in 10mm. There are also some fine Dan Wessons used in 10mm.

Of course there is also Glock, and the S&W 610/310 if those suit you.

You can always download 10mm Auto to 40 S&W power levels, but you can't load back up. And with all these options, a 40 S&W gun is just a barrel swap away.

[bbs70]

True that. Just the same, the Glock is no Browning Hi-Power or Beretta 96 in an aesthetic sense.


Blasphemy :kidding:

Truthfully, I like the lines of the SIG.

[msp2640]

I have a department issued SIG 226 in 40S&W that is DAO, we used to carry a regular 226 SA/DA (in 40) before the DAO was available. Prior to that we had the same 226 but in 9mm, before the 40 came into favor. My preference and the best shooting "duty" firearm, Ive ever used is the SIG, but I do prefer the SA/DA version. With both jacketed and cast it's just a great shooting pistol. I think that some of the reasoning behind the change over from the SA/DA version to the DAO is that- it's alway's the same trigger pull and no decocking lever makes it somewhat easier for those on our job that are not "gun" people to qualify. If you're looking for a "duty" style/ size 40 I'd recommend the SIG - not sure if they still offer the DA/SA version, I'm just not up on their latest offerings.

I should add that on my prior department we had the full size Glock, first in 9 and later in 40. I could shot the Glock pretty well, but I'm far better with the SIG. My impression is that the SIG shoots cast better as well.

And lastly - as odd as it seems, while assigned to our department's detective unit, we had the option of carry a job issued SIG 239 in 40. This version is a single column DA/SA version - I could/ can shoot that better than our regular duty issued 226 - go figure. I think alot of it's personal preference and how well a particular pistol feels/ shoots for you. I admit that I don't carry often while off duty, but when I do it's a SIG 239 in 40 that I bought myself. I had a Glock 23 for years that was my own, but after shooting the 239 so much better, I sold it and bought the SIG.

Just my thoughts - I don't have stock in/ or work for SIG - just like shooting them - Bill L

[9.3X62AL]

Blasphemy :kidding:

Truthfully, I like the lines of the SIG.

Me too! Just so ya know, I am a long-establish Heretic-In-Good-Standing, here and elsewhere. If I get thrown off one more forum, I'll earn my "Ace" rating.

[klcarroll]

Gotta throw the plug out there.

Your 40 S&W dies will also load 10mm Auto. Since this seems to be a hobby/fun gun anyway, why not get the 10mm?

EAA Witness is available in 10mm in the CZ 75B format. I would suggest a Witness Elite Match. Mine is a tack driver.

Colt, Kimber, Fusion and STI all have 1911/2011 guns in 10mm. There are also some fine Dan Wessons used in 10mm.

Of course there is also Glock, and the S&W 610/310 if those suit you.

You can always download 10mm Auto to 40 S&W power levels, but you can't load back up. And with all these options, a 40 S&W gun is just a barrel swap away.


Well.........., Yhe only reason for not going this route is that my buddy and I went a bit overboard when we stocked up on .40 S&W brass: .......I am now sitting on about 5000 rounds that are waiting to be cleaned up and refilled.

To tell the truth, .......I do find the S&W 610 really appealing. (....I understand that it's "Moon Clips" will allow you to also shoot .40 S&W.) .....It's just that the current asking prices are a bit on the silly side; .....Particularly for a "Fun Shooter". (...As opposed to a weapon that I have a serious use for.)

I really wish Ruger or some other "mid-range" manufacturer would produce a nice 4" revolver in both .40 S&W and .45 ACP! (....A little while ago, I looked around for a Taurus Tracker in .45 ACP, but they had discontinued the model, and every example I came across was priced like a collectable Smith or Colt.)

Kent

[sqlbullet]

I really wish Ruger or some other "mid-range" manufacturer would produce a nice 4" revolver in both .40 S&W and .45 ACP! (....A little while ago, I looked around for a Taurus Tracker in .45 ACP, but they had discontinued the model, and every example I came across was priced like a collectable Smith or Colt.)

I will second that motion. A Ruger GP100 in a .400 bore would be very nice. Should be long enough to be reamed for 10mm magnum, making it a three cartridge gun.

[Trey45]

Charter Arms Rimless Revolver (CARR) is supposedly just about ready for release in 40S&W. The plus side to this is, NO MOON CLIPS needed!

[klcarroll]

Charter Arms Rimless Revolver (CARR) is supposedly just about ready for release in 40S&W. The plus side to this is, NO MOON CLIPS needed!

Well THIS caught my attention instantly!! I thought Charter Arms had given up on that model! .......If anyone sees anything on this model, please post the link!!


Kent

[Trey45]

This years shot show it was unveiled.

Here's Jeff Quinn shooting one, around 1:30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfCBDhz4RMU

I want one, been wanting one since they started talking about it last year ago or so.
I wish I had more confidence in Charter Arms quality, but I'll still buy one. S&W or Ruger really should build one of these.

http://gunblast.com/images/SHOT2011/Day0/DSC02602.JPG

[sargenv]

I have 3 S&W 610's.. a -2 classic model, and two -3 models (both barrel lengths). The second 6.5" -3 model is for when my -2 model is too worn to shoot in competition anymore.. I really like the 610. Accurate, can load pinkers or downright hot 10 mm. Brass is cheap (40 S&W) and plentiful. I prefer the RIMZ moon clips (Polymer) as the 40/10 mm gives enough room to have some real "Meat" so that the cartridges never come loose until you pull them loose. The RIMZ don't work as well in the 625 series.. I've used my 610 to get me to A class in USPSA Revo and ICORE Limited.. even against the 8 shooters.. I beat a fair # of those 8 shooters at the IRC every year. :) Your two barrel lengths are 3 7/8 and 6.5. You may be able to find earlier models in a 5".