New modular rifles with cast

[45r]

There have been a lot of modular rifles coming out that are said to run better with much fewer jams in harsh sandy envirenments like Iraq and afganistan.The H&K 416,FN Scar,etc.I wonder if the military will ever replace the M-4 with one of these type rifles and if any of these would make a good cast boolit shooter.I like the BM ACR and think it would be easy to keep clean and I've read that it shoots pretty good and can be changed into many different lenghts and chamberings with easy barrel changes and that it works real well at the 16 inch lenght which is ideal for a 300BLK.That is a chambering I'd like to get.They said they thought they could make them for around 1500 bucks at first but that is around 1100 less than what ones that are coming out go for.I wonder if that is why they keep sticking with the M-4.I wonder if they will ever go to a more reliable CR that doesn't jam when there isn't time to do maintainence on a regular basis.I think they where going to get a replacement but don't seem to be going to now.Does anyone have a BM ACR and do you like it.

[Landric]

I'm sure our armed forces will eventually change to something different. Who knows when and what that will be. It involves an incredible outlay of cash, not to mention congressional approval, to make a purchase of the magnitude that would be required to replace all the M16/M4 platform weapons currently in service.

Then one has to consider the fact that not everyone in positions of power in the armed forces agrees that the M16/M4 platform is a problem in the first place. Cartridges like the 6.8 SPC (which is essentially a reinvention of the 6.5x50mm Arisaka and/or the 6.5x52mm Carcono) exist because of the much debated effectiveness of the 5.56mm NATO, but not everyone agrees that there is something wrong with the 5.56 either.

I'm far from an authority on the subject. The only "black rifle" I own is a SIG 556, which I chose specifically because its piston driven and I've experienced spotty reliability with AR type rifles of several makes in non-battlefield conditions. My department issued rifle is a .223, but its a Ruger Mini-14. While its not cutting edge technology, its also been more reliable than any AR type rifle I have owned.

As for the 5.56, in law enforcement applications it has a good reputation as a stopper. I suspect that is due mostly in part to our use of expanding ammunition and the close range at which police gun fights take place. 100 yards is a long shot for a rifle in US law enforcement. I suspect those that have had bad experiences with the 5.56 in battle conditions had the experiences they did because of the use of FMJ ammunition and/or extended engagement ranges more common on battlefields than US streets.

If it were up to me there would be a change. More reliable systems than the M16/M4 exist, and more effective cartridges than the 5.56 NATO exist. Then again, I'm more of a fan of rifles from earlier days anyway. I think one would be hard pressed to find a GI from WWII or Korea that thought the Garand/.30-06 wasn't effective. At the same time, obviously the solution is not to pull a bunch of Garands out of moth balls, but there is likely a better choice somewhere in the middle.

[Zbench]

I think the armed forces are very close to "converting" the M16s from gas driven to piston driven. It is one of the things they are looking at. 30 caliber weapons are creeping back on the battlefield as well. Mostly in the black ops /SF area. To your point, they now make a Scar in 308. Big downside to any new 30 caliber rifle would be the weight gain in soldiers packs. There is no denying that 223 pound for pound is a pretty good round.

With the current cost cutting being whispered in Congress (and demanded by the people), I would not be surprised to see the armed forces convert the M4s and M16s to piston driven as opposed to buying something completely new. Time will tell.

Pete

[milsurp mike]

The best Rifle for less than ideal conditions is already in production.By far the best battle rifle ever developed.This Rifle my Friends is called the AK-47.Our Enemies have been using it for decades against us.Mike

[Landric]

Yeah, but the AK feels cheap and isn't an American design, so obviously it must be inferior right? :)

[WineMan]

It is now the longest serving front line rifle in US service. The Israel military has kept the M16/AR15 platform in service for a while. It would seem to me that if they thought the AK series was better they would have dumped the AR platform. I know they have the Galil an AK improved rifle in 5.56 NATO and 7.62 NATO but their exports have not been to major military powers. I have always wondered that the reason they do not use any original AK's is that anyone carrying one is probably not their friend and too many friendly fire incidents would occur.

Wineman

[Zbench]

The reason the US Army moved to the M16 in the 1960s was because of the tremendous logistics in dealing with 30 caliber resupply. If you have ever humped a ruck that already weighs a 100#, the last thing you need is to carry twice as much weight in ammo than you need to. I doubt that the Army will ever move away from the 5.56 bullet for that reason. Not to mention that we would no longer be NATO standard.

As for the AK, if you like cheap pressed steel stuff and can deal with the weight of carrying a full battle supply of ammo, it's definitely for you! :)

Pete

[45r]

The CR's that have been around are very good in their own way but these new ones seem Very good.I've seen the ACR on you tube go through 8 30 round mags full auto like it was nothing and the muzzle stayed right on the whole time.It didn't seem to move much at all.It didn't spray all over the place.You can shoot anything on the 223,6.8, or 7.62x39 platforms by swapping out the barrel which doesn't take long at all.Remington is putting a lot of time and money in it.I've read Colt is making something like it.It has passed navy seal tests that other rifles have failed and some blow up.Remington is making their own receiver for their version.It seems that modulars might be the rifle of the future.They are said to be pretty accurate and have a decent trigger.You can put the same good ones for the AR on them.It isn't perfect yet but some say it's close to it.I wonder if they can get the price down to 1500 bucks.They said that would be the price but the folder cost over 3 grand.

[PAT303]

I read somewhere that they wanted to change to the H&K G36 rifle but they won't on the grounds that it's not an American rifle.I personally think that to much effort has been put into firepower and not enough into training men to hit what they aim at.The BEF in the first world war prooved beyond doubt the effectiveness of well trained riflemen. Pat

[nicholst55]

Interestingly, Big Army has stopped purchasing the SCAR-16 (5.56), and diverted all funds allocated for SCAR procurement towards the SCAR-17 (7.62). They've decided that the SCAR-16 doesn't do anything that an M4 won't, so their money is better spent on a bigger bang. The M4 is still being issued to everyone (Army) for their 5.56mm needs.

There are ongoing plans to 'new & improve' the M4, but I don't know that anyone has stated definitively what all that will entail. I've heard that the heavier M4A1 barrel will replace the M4 barrel, and that everyone will have a 'fun' switch (as opposed to 3-rd burst), but not much beyond that.