Need help with Encore and WLR primers

[strangwn]

I recently loaded some .22-250 cartridges for shooting in a Thompson/Center Encore, but several of the primers would not fire on the first attempt. The loads are 55 gr Vmax, 36 gr Varget, Winchester Large Rifle(WLR) primers, 1X brass. The primers and powder are newly purchased. The primers that have had trouble firing may be seated very slightly deeper than the primers that are firing, but the difference is only very slight. I will try to do some measuring and report here. The firing pin appears to be striking the primers adequately. The rifle has been shot with only factory ammo in the past without any problems. I normally use only CCI primers and have never had failed ignitions even if primers were seated well below flush, but this is my first time at loading .22-250 and first time with an Encore. Has anyone had these kinds of problems with the Encore and/or WLR primers?

[BABore]

Handloading for the Encore (or any hinged action single shot) is a bit different than your normal bolt action reloading habits. Your best bet is to go to Mike Bellm's website and do some reading. Here's is a link to possibily some of your issue.

http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=172

I have no association with Bellm other than being a customer. A happy one at that. I made my own headspacing gauge rather than buy his. I ran into accuracy issue with my 338 WM when I first got a high end custom bbl. Following the directions on this site led me to outstanding accuracy. If you want some further info, send me a PM and I can walk you through it. I can give you my phone # so we can chat about it faster than me typing it all out.

[rhbrink]

Any of the break open actions can be a bit tricky to reload for Bellm has a great site with lots of info. For some ideas for a quick fix do you have a hammer spur mounted on the hammer sometimes they are heavy enough to slow the hammer down enough to cause problems and you might be resizing your brass a tad bit too short, easy to do in a Encore.

[Shooter]

Do you neck size, or full lenght? Full lenght may be pushing the shoulder back too far.

[BABore]

Do you neck size, or full lenght? Full lenght may be pushing the shoulder back too far.

Neck sizing is what will get you into accuracy problems with the Encore. The gap between the breech end of the bbl and the breech face need to measured. You do this by closing the action on a leave-type feeler gauge. You then subtract 0.001" off of the feeler that the action will just close tight on. This is the dimension you set your FL sizing die up for. Setting the shoulder datum too far back will cause excessive slop and cause ingition problems. If you neck size, you will be preloading the frame.

When a round is fired in a hinged breech rifle, the frame flexes some and the case is pushed back against the breech face. For instance, my Encore with its 338 WM bbl will just close tight on a 0.0015 feeler. I size the cases so they are flush with the bbl end. This allows a 0.001" gap. When I fie a round, then measure how much it sticks below or above the bbl end, I get up to 0.012" of protrusion. Should I just neck size this case, then I would be preloaded the frame when I close the action. My 0.012" protrusion results in a 0.011" preload or interference fit. You may never notice any accuracy issues if you only fired the identical pressure load and all cases were perfectly consistent. Problem is that just don't happen. Varying preload amounts cause shifting POI's.

I found this out the hard way prior to even knowing about Mike Bellm's site and info. I got a nice, shiny new Bullberry 338 WM bbl and 100 new cases. I then set about working up a load with three rounds in half gr. increments. Eighteen rounds total. I found a sweet spot where it was shooting around 0.75" IIRC. I promptly returned home, neck sized the fireformed cases, and loaded them all at the sweet spot. The next time out I fired 6 3-shot groups with this load. They all sucked big time. ***! I had to have done something wrong. I repeated the load workup with 18 new cases. The sweet spot showed up again at the same powder weight. I repeated the neck sizing and loaded all 18 rounds again. The first 3 rounds went about 4 inches. I was PO'd now. I continued firing rounds at the same target, mainly in anger. After about 9 rounds it started dawning on me. The overall group was about 5 inches now. But, several of the holes had another shot almost bugholing it. When I got done firing all 18 rounds I about choked. Sprayed around the target were 6 3-shot groups. Each was sub-inch.

That was about when I went to Bellm's site and did some reading. I made my own headspace gauge with dial indicator. I then repeated my load workup for the third time with new brass. This time I kept fired cases in order. Once home I pulled the bbl and removed the extractor. Each case was dropped in and measured with the HS gauge. My starting load protruded out of the bbl end by 0.003". The next 1/2 grain increment went 0.005". I ended up at 0.012" with my max load. Had I kept brass segregated I never would have seen this effect. By having them mixed, with varying amounts of frame preload, it sunk in fast.

Now I FL size all new lots of brass and use my bbl and gauge to check each one. Cases that were a bit long had the shoulder set to the proper position. Ones that go below flush need to get blown back so I can get the shoulder back where it belongs. Once all of them are done that way they're always fully resized to my 0.001" gap requirement. Final Encore accuracy enhancements were an oversized hinge pin and extra power locking bolt spring.

[rhbrink]

I had just about the same exact experience with a new .223 barrel only after seeing that I had not sized the cases enough I then sized them too much pushing the shoulder back too far. After a couple of reloadings I had one seperate in the chamber, a double "***" first time in nearly 50 years of reloading and I thought that I knew what I was doing. Well that sure opened my eyes did a lot of looking and reading found Bellms site and did a lot of learning got everything squared away and fixed now shoot sub MOA at 100 yards and am a lot happier camper.

[strangwn]

Thanks everyone for all the great advice. Have been to Bellm website and will be taking action.