Aftermath of Arizona

[BSkerj]

What do you guys think...are we going to see the hoarding starting up again after last weekend in Arizona and the recent gun control comments. I am thinking of uping my primer supply just in case and while the prices are down. Sure don't want to go through what we went through a couple years ago again. :x

[Recluse]

Honest opinion? I doubt it.

Never hurts to keep a good supply of components, though.

Think about the last mid-term elections. The liberal agenda got kicked squarely in the testicles--and hard. In 2012, Hussein will be gone and so will a lot of numbnuts Senators that were responsible for dark-of-the-night healthcare reform bills and legislation. Ben Nelson will be history, as well as others.

Secondly, the fraud that is the liberal spin machine is already becoming exposed to air, and as such, already beginning to go rotten. Sheriff Dipdick of Pima County has already been exposed for the intentional lying fraud that he is. Rumor is now speculating among higher echelons of law enforcement that he might be forced to resign due to the irreparable damage he's done to the investigation and the chances for prosecution.

While we have a lot more corners to turn in the months and years coming up, we turned a big one this past November, and that was the Corner of Truth.

The Truth came out about a lot of professional and career politicians, and they could not hide from it. The quiet majority liked the Truth, and now seems to be seeking it in other matters of concern. The Truth will continue to surface so far as this nutsack Jared Loughner is concerned, and the Truth will continue to expose the leftist loony-goons for the crazy, cowardly nutsacks that they are too.

McCarthy and other communists like her are just trying to hone in on the national stage and get a little face time and name recognition since they're otherwise too pathetic to get it any other way.

Don't think for a minute that I'm not keeping an eye and ear on this thing, but I would be very surprised if we see another run on components and guns. Fact is, there is nowhere near a majority to pass such legislation--and the leftists know it.

:coffee:

[exile]

Thanks Recluse,

I feel better. (Not being sarcastic, I am serious). I still have a check ready to mail to the National Rifle Assocation anyway. They are not perfect, but where would we be without them.

exile

[Jim]

Yeah, I think Recluse has it right.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Bozo and the crew are working on the path of "normalization" for us, that is, to accept things like the UN anti-gun treaty, which needs only senate approval, and then he can start the squeeze on the 2ND amendment Rights.

A perfect example is what we in America do regarding DOVE HUNTING, being mostly because of treaties with foreign countries. They KILL them in Mexico in huge numbers, we have small limits. Our federal wildlife people colluded in that.

Think of those US jurisdictions not following the gun rights ruling. They are intelligent people. They know darn well they are denying the people their rights.They deny our rights for sure in DC and CHICAGO, and OTHER places.

These are exactly the kind of issue the colonists had with the British forcing them to accept the quartering of troops in their homes, among other things.

Do not be fooled by the liar in chief, and his evil hirelings. The agenda is there BvT

[Maven]

Aftermath? Lots of bloviating by politicians, radio talk shows, TV news, but I doubt much will come of it. Perhaps an AZ legislator will introduce a bill to limit high capacity magazines, but it will likely die in committee. The Feds will wring their hands, but this issue (or non-issue) is basically one of States' Rights, and so will be unable to exert much influence.

[1Shirt]

Agree with Recluse! Buy enough primers and powder to last for at least a couple of years, 3-5 if you can afford it.:coffee:
1Shirt!

[76 WARLOCK]

If you are prone to donating money to politicians, do not give to the RNCC because of Rep King in NY, he is jumping on the anti gun bandwagon.

[starmac]

On fox last night, they said at least some stores have reported gun sales doubling or better in Az since the shooting.

[Recluse]

On fox last night, they said at least some stores have reported gun sales doubling or better in Az since the shooting.

I talked to an old military pal in Phoenix last night. He said a lot of the gun sales were from first time gun/handgun owners--a shooting in the middle of a grocery store parking lot woke up a LOT of people.

Saw the same thing happen here in Texas after the infamous Luby's Cafeteria shooting. Gun sales went through the roof--and we didn't even have a CHL back then, yet people were still buying handguns like there was no tomorrow, and carrying them regardless of the law.

Earlier, I spoke about the Truth, and I think as we got the Truth out this past year and saw what it did in terms of the election results, I think the next ramification of the Truth will come as a direct result of this Tuscon shooting.

And that Truth will be that the Media has its own agenda.

We, as conservatives and level-headed, objective folks already know that. But you know as well as I do that there are still the sheeple out there who just do not think for themselves. Now, I'm even hearing THEM talk about what a mess the media has made of this and how full of carp the media is.

If ANY good can come from this such as more levelheaded citizens learning, realizing and accepting the Truth about our mainstream media, then that will be one more positive upon which we can try to straighten out this nation.

:coffee:

[454PB]

I own some Ruger stock, and the price is up over 4% today alone.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-11/glock-pistol-sales-surge-in-aftermath-of-shooting-of-arizona-s-giffords.html?cmpid=yhoo

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

I got enough to last a really looooooonnnnggggggg time!

I do have a couple of guns I've been think of selling though, I bought "replacements" a while ago . . . might be a good time to cash in! But . . . I'm not really in a hurry, having a few "extras" above and beyond the overflowing safe . . . hasn't cluttered up the house too bad yet!


[smilie=s:

[9.3X62AL]

I think Recluse nailed it. I hope there are no further "runs" on ammo or components.

[MakeMineA10mm]

The day after this event, I was watching NBC (for the weather, honest - most of their liberal-leaning body language and tone of voice makes me sick), and they had on their "consultant" who is the retired FBI Profiler (sorry, can't remember his name right now), and he said something to the effect of:

"Look, there's nothing you can do to stop this. We have two or three mass murders a year, often by shooting, by crazy people. We live in America. You're never going to have a situation where you can just lock somebody up because someone thinks they are crazy, and you're not getting rid of the guns, so just get used to this. This guy was not politically motivated; he's just nuts."

He said it a LOT better than that, and it was wonderful to see the crest-fallen look on Matt and Katie's faces when he cinched up the perfect argument and left them no room for their agenda. LOVE that guy!! :D

The funny thing is that, during their "coverage" of this event, right before the profiler came on, they had a segment on the "political aspect" of the shootings. They talked about Sarah Palin's map with scope cross-hairs and how it was in bad taste (how? Sarah did that LONG before the shooting happened!), or how it may have motivated this nut-job to do the shootings. Then, they cut to Hillary, who was, literally, almost as far away geographically as a person can be from AZ, in YEMEN, and she's up there shooting her mouth off about this event that she could barely have any knowledge of, other than what the slanted media was broadcasting by satellite over to the other side of the world. Hillary said the stupidest thing I think I've ever heard a politician say, basically blaming this nut-jobs actions on Sarah Palin, the NRA, and the Republicans!

You know, as much as I don't like his socialst policies/leanings, at least Obama is not a hysterical idiot! I'm actually thankful he won the primaries, so we're not stuck with "her witchiness". Sorry, the rant had to be let out! 8-)

[starmac]

The fact that he used a gun should not be a big deal here, it was just the easiest f thing to use and also hurt and killed way less people than other easily obtainable ways of commiting mass murder. The fact that guns are available and legal could have possibly shut this down quicker if the guy standing next to him or behind him was also armed. this would not have been the case if he had built even an sorry excuse for a bomb or hit the crowd with an automobile. It is my opinion that the world would be a lot safer if everyone was armed.

[Ole]

I think if we get any new federal gun laws they will be on the order of limiting magazine capacities to 10 rounds like the Brady bill.

[Mal Paso]

Agree with Recluse! Buy enough primers and powder to last for at least a couple of years, 3-5 if you can afford it.:coffee:
1Shirt!

That's more money than I made last year!:veryconfu

[starmac]

I think if we get any new federal gun laws they will be on the order of limiting magazine capacities to 10 rounds like the Brady bill.

I don't own anything other than pistols with larger than a 10 round mag, and personally have no use for the large capacity mags. We don't need any more laws period. I think before they pass any new laws they should have to remove 100 old laws for every new one, and enforce what we have first.

The reason reported that the shooter quit shooting was a spring broke in his high capacity mag. It is very likely if he had used the very reliable glock mags he would have been able to keep shooting, it may very well be a blessing he chose to use the high capacity mags.

[Stick_man]

I think the liberal media and "talking heads" need to pull their heads out and realize this kind of thing will continue to happen until they start to address the real issues. How many times have you heard it was the mental health care's failure? It has been reported several times, but it is obviously not as glamorous to go after the mental health industry as it is to go after the "evil" gun industry. With all the turmoil and hopelessness that is so abundant in todays world, it is no surprise that people crack. If the medical field had not dropped the ball on this guy, the whole thing likely could have been avoided. I am not saying with 100% certainty that it would have been avoided, but the odds would have been exponentially increased of avoiding the situation.

The laws are already on the books prohibiting somebody who has been judged mentally incompetent from buying a gun. I believe even a stay of more than a week or two in a psychiatric care facility also disqualifies a person from purchasing a gun. Schizophrenia (sp?) is a psychiatric disorder that is lucky enough to have some pretty effective medications available for treatment. Same with bipolar disorders.

How many times did we hear there were lots of signs that went ignored? How many times have we heard it in the past that somebody is "just not right" or that somebody is acting strangely or that somebody feels uncomfortable around somebody else?

The gun didn't cause these killings. Gun laws didn't allow them. Gun laws didn't stop them. The medical profession didn't stop them either, but was in the best position to do so. Why doesn't anybody talk about that?

Sorry for the ranting and the long post.

[starmac]

If we do something about everybody that isn't right, I would be all by myself.
There is actually laws that won't let someone be institunalized (spelling) unless they consent to it, until they do something against the law. How many crazy people admit or think they are crazy.
On the other hand if we could just lock up everyone that is deemed crazy, who would do the deeming. This would not be a pleasant prospect.
The law has apparantely been called on this individual several times. The sherrif was quick to point out the correct pronuciation of this guys name and give the origination of the pronunciation, giving me the feeling he has had contact with the shooter.
It has also been reported his mother works for the county, he could have been familar with it there.
Personally I think the sherrifs office should be looked at closely, he was just too quick to point the blame where he did, can he be hiding his own faults. If he actually belives everything he has said on the record, he is also a nutcase in my opinion.

[dragonrider]

A sudden increase in gun sales would naturaly result in an increase in ammunition sales, but I don't see that happening with components. Most of these new sales are a knee jerk reaction to a horrendous incident and will taper off in a couple months or less.

[giz189]

the undoubtedly bias news media stated that gun sales on that particular pistol and large cap magazine had gone up 500% since the shooting. You can bet something goofy will be thrown out there by our anti gun politicians. Already Carolyn McCarthy has been reported putting together a new 'bill' and two or three others had jumped on her band wagon. For what its worth the report on the sales increase was on Fox News.

[Phillip]

You know what, let the Democrats and the news media try to push there agenda that nobody wants. The People are tired of it and it will only cost them another election.

Also, before Carolyn McCarthy tries to push her own as usual agenda, she should be asking some serous questions, like;

Q1) Where was her security detail? And if one was not issued, why was this allowed?
(My best bet on this, is the sheriff felt that he could not support it, like the immigration law.)

Q2) With the people coming out about the shooter being insane, why did any speak up to the police about it? (I think these people should be charged.)

Q3) The shooter was posting videos and on Face book, saying he was going to do this. Why was this not caught by the FBI and local law enforcement? (The FBI and secret service had the time to visit a WCF fighter for saying he would be willing to fight Obama in the ring, but they could not catch this?.....Sad.)

[MakeMineA10mm]

You make some good points:

Your question #1 is the most important, in my opinion, and I'll share my opinion on this at the end.

As far as your question #2, it's not very easy to get something done.

First of all, the family has to be engaged with the crazy person. Whether it be the stigma of admitting there is someone in the family with mental health problems, or the wearing-down process of dealing with it for years, or sticking one's head in the sand and not admitting to yourself that there's a problem, it is not uncommon for families to not be engaged with a family-member with mental problems.

Let's say the family is engaged and pro-active. Then, they have to be assertive and get the cooperation of the crazy person to commit himself, unless he's done a criminal act already. As you might imagine, it's kind-of hard for that to be accomplished. In my state, the only way to get someone committed against their will is if they make a threat to seriously harm themselves or someone else. Often, this happens AFTER an event, like cutting their own wrists, or a notebook being found where they've made RECENT (like in the last 7-10 days at most) threats towards someone else. The other way is if a Judge orders it, which means the family would have had to spend the bucks to hire and atty., file court motions, and then fight it out in court with their family-member, or the crazy family member is involved in the court system already for a criminal act.

Now, let's say the person IS committed. Most of the time, if they were admitted due to being a threat to themselves or someone else, they are released in 3-10 days, as soon as they are "stabilized" and not making threats. (They get stabilized by being put on psych. meds, which they very frequently quit taking as soon as they're released....) They also get a referral to voluntarily follow-up about their mental health problems with a local outpatient treatment provider who can do counseling, casework, and prescribe meds. Want to guess how many follow up with that?? If they are committed by court order, they will stay for 6mos to 2 years in a mental health hospital (not free to leave, usually), where the same stuff is going on that happens at local psychiatric wards, except over a longer time and with better long-term outcomes. However, these people are still released and live among us after that. Usually, since the courts are involved at this level, the person gets follow-up because it's a condition of their bail or probation that they follow-up with the local outpatient treatment.

Basically, our system based on freedom doesn't want to take anyone's freedom away until the facts are exposed. (How would you like it if someone had the power to just say you were crazy, and the police would come scoop you up for a couple weeks in a confined mental ward?? -- That's what we have to avoid. I don't see a lot of middle ground from where we are, before we starting hitting that slippery slope...) Sometimes, with a guy like this one in AZ, the facts don't reach an actionable level until the worst happens...

As far as your Q3, I had not heard that. That puts a very different spin on things, in my mind. Something more proactive could have and should have been done, in that case.

I said I would hit the protection-issue at the beginning of my post. I think this is the one law that could make sense. So far, we've been speculating about new gun control laws, and there's already been a bill written that makes it illegal to carry a weapon within 1000' of an elected federal official. Seems like the laws we already have against murder, possessing a gun when you're crazy, and carrying a gun illegally didn't do a DANG thing to stop this. Why do they think it will help to add another (stupid and unenforceable) law on top of the ones we already have?!? If they want to do something, don't attack guns and don't make more STUPID laws. Want to do something actually helpful?? How about we expand the Secret Service to provide protection details to all 435 Congressmen, and the 9 Supreme Court Judges? Also, how about we fund the US Marshal's to protect the lower federal court Judges (Appelate and District)? The protection details would not have to be as massive as the one provided for POTUS, probably 4-6 people would suffice. Just so the congressperson has a bodyguard 24/7 with potential for reinforcement to higher level when threats are detected or particular public events are being attended by their protectee. Seems reasonable to me, actually might be effective, and it doesn't hurt anyone's rights.

[JIMinPHX]

I don't expect a big run on ammo this time around. Most everybody stocked up when that "democrat" got into the oval office. The supply line has filled back up since then. There is plenty of ammo around. The same goes for components.

I would not be surprised if there is a short lived run on hi-cap magazines, since that is the one object that this incident has a small chance of actually affecting in new laws.

There is actually one change that I do expect will go through as a result of this shooting. Schumer is talking about changing the rules so that the military will report to the FBI when they toss someone out for excessive drug use. That one actually makes some sense to me. I'm surprised that it was not already the case. Any other law that they try to shove down our throats is likely to meet strong resistance.

As I see it, there were two basic failures here. First, the shooter was disqualified from owning a gun under laws that have been in place for decades. The NICS check just didn't work properly & identify him as such. That's a failure of the feds to properly implement existing laws. The other failure happened on the county level. The sheriff had received several calls about this guy having made death threats & buried them, allegedly for political reasons. The problem was not a lack of existing laws.

There is little public support for growing the government in any way these days. The father of the slain 9-year old even came out & said that he doesn't think that the public needs to be further limited because of this event.

Those blow hard politicians have stuck their fingers in the pudding too much already & the public is getting tired of it.

[firefly1957]

I do not think we will see any new gun laws at the national level . Some of the more liberal states might get one of their wishes though but hopefully people will see it for what it is and remove those politicians when they come up for reelection.


:bootgive: next election

[jsizemore]

Went to the Raleigh, NC gun show this past weekend. Got there Sat at 1pm. The line was roughly 120 yards long. I decided to give it some time to go down so I walked the flea market in search of pewter. No luck. Went back to checkout the gunshow line and it was 150 yards long. I headed for home.

I talked to a 3 gun shooter at breakfast that got into the show before it opened at 8:45 am Sat. He said when they opened the doors at 9 it looked like a dam had burst. He left after 45 minutes cuz folks was shoulder to shoulder and you couldn't get up to the tables.

I think most folks were scared of what might happen in Washington from all the news coverage. The local paper had editrial cartoons blaming guns for everything in Az.

[jhrosier]

Ammo and components will never be cheaper, more available, or better quality than they are right now.
Buy what you can afford, while you can.
Store your supply carefully and it will be usable for a lifetime and more.

I've been shooting and handloading for 45 years.
Prices are increasing much faster than can be explained by inflation.
Shortages of ammo and components are occurring more frequently with the passage of time.
Legislation, restrictions, and licensing are rapidly reducing legal sources for supplies.

Any crackpot liberal politician can completely cut off the supply of ammo with the stroke of a pen, in the middle of the night. (and there's not a darn thing that you can do to stop it)

Jack

[Olevern]

I was in a small local shop today that usually has competitive prices on ammo. Picked up a box of Rem. 45 "Long" Colt and put it right back on the shelf _ price was $49.95 ! Don't know if this was a result of the Arizona incident, but someone else is gonna have to purchase that box of ammo.

[starmac]

That is average here for 45 colt.