1911 question - Operator Error??

[7br]

I purchased a Rock Island 1911 used. Looks to be in pretty good condition, but I have a couple of concerns.

If I rack the slide back on an empty magazine, it locks back like I expect. I drop the magazine and depress the slide release and the slide slams forward like I expect. What I did not expect was every once in a while the hammer follows the slide back. I will mention that the trigger is considerably lighter than what I was expecting. Probably in the 5lb range.

I do not have reloading dies to make dummy rounds yet and haven't had time to go to the range. so I do not know if it will happen on a loaded chamber. I let it slam shut on an empty case a couple of times and it did not seem to follow, but it really doesn't give me a warm, fuzzy feeling.

Couple of questions:
1) Is this normal?
2) Is it safe?
3) Will I damage the gun letting the slide forward on an empty chamber?

[35remington]

First.....

STOP dropping the slide on an empty chamber!

This is just not done. Don't do it. This is hard on the lug feet of the barrel.

If sear engagement is on the minimal side the hammer will follow, but abusing the gun by dropping the slide on an empty chamber is asking for problems.

Get the trigger looked at to be sure, but you're also bringing on part of the problem yourself.

I suppose you can figure out why it doesn't follow with a live round.

[Tazman1602]

7br --

That gun *may* have had trigger work done. On one of my 1911's that I've built -- one for me and me alone I have a VERY light trigger. If I drop the slide on an empty chamber once in a while the trigger will follow it to half cock. Technically that is_not supposed to happen and IS considered unacceptable. Seeing as I'm the one who did the trigger work I know what is going on and choose to live with it. My trigger never, EVER follows the slide with either dummy rounds or live rounds (Thank God......)

Make up some dummy rounds -- pour some lead in the case to aproximate the weight of a loaded cartridge and make CERTAIN that hammer does not follow the slide home when chamberiing a round.

UMMM..........if you've ever had a 1911 go full auto on you before because of a botched trigger job you will NEVER forget to try this test again although it IS VERY exciting..................

Art

[35remington]

BTW, don't drop the slide if a round is in the chamber, either.

All ammo for a 1911 must be fed from the magazine. To do otherwise is to overwork and damage the extractor eventually.

If making dummy rounds, simply seat a bullet to the proper depth sans powder and primer.

Feed them ONLY from the magazine......do NOT single load them in the chamber!

[7br]

Thank you for your quick replies. I remembered that I have a couple of dummy rounds in my hunter's ed supplies. After a couple dozen closings on a dummy round, the hammer never followed. It is a range pistol for now anyways, but it will be examined by a gunsmith before I trust it very much.

[bhn22]

It probably doesn't have quite enough spring tension on the sear. I've also seen ultra-light triggers cause this. If you're not comfortable adjusting the leaf spring then by all means have it done by someone familiar with 1911s. As mentioned before, don't drop the slide on an empty chamber, it looks cool on TV but those clowns don't have to pay for their own guns.

[btroj]

So, how do you close the slide after you are done shooting? Or after reassembly? Do you hit the slide release while holding the slide and ease it forward?
I was not aware this could be an issue. I certainly don't do it all the time but will do what I can to not do it all.

[35remington]

"Do you hit the slide release while holding the slide and ease it forward?"

Exactly.

"....will do what I can to not do it all."

Actually it's possible to avoid it completely. You should do this. Just like you can avoid deliberately pounding it on a rock.

[Hometek]

So, how do you close the slide after you are done shooting? Or after reassembly? Do you hit the slide release while holding the slide and ease it forward?
I was not aware this could be an issue. I certainly don't do it all the time but will do what I can to not do it all.

I drop the mag and simply pull the slide back and ease it forward. But I also like to slingshot the slide on mag changes to so rarely use the slide stop lever.

[MtGun44]

While dropping the slide without feeding a round is hard on the gun, MY trigger jobs,
including my std 2 lb trigger (for me) will NEVER follow when I test it that way a few times.
If any trigger I am testing does, I fix it properly so it will not.

I have multiple 1911s that have had the same 2 lb trigger for over 70,000 rounds and never
changed or failed. If you know what you are doing and use quality parts, this is not terribly hard
to do. Unfortunately, there are a LOT of folks, including some that get paid a lot to work
on 1911s that can't do a proper trigger job. I have dissected a few "big name" trigger jobs
(altho it is impossible to prove that it wasn't fiddled after it left their shops) that did not
impress me at all. One took quite a lot of rework to bring it up to my standards.

Actually, tho it is a good 'torture test', it is really irrelevant if the hammer doesn't follow
when feeding a round.

Bill

[That'll Do]

I purchased a Rock Island 1911 used. Looks to be in pretty good condition, but I have a couple of concerns.

If I rack the slide back on an empty magazine, it locks back like I expect. I drop the magazine and depress the slide release and the slide slams forward like I expect. What I did not expect was every once in a while the hammer follows the slide back. I will mention that the trigger is considerably lighter than what I was expecting. Probably in the 5lb range.

I do not have reloading dies to make dummy rounds yet and haven't had time to go to the range. so I do not know if it will happen on a loaded chamber. I let it slam shut on an empty case a couple of times and it did not seem to follow, but it really doesn't give me a warm, fuzzy feeling.

Couple of questions:
1) Is this normal?
2) Is it safe?
3) Will I damage the gun letting the slide forward on an empty chamber?

To answer your questions:

1) No, it is not normal.
2) It is not safe, the gun NEEDS to be inspected by a competent gunsmith.
3) If you're letting the slide slam forward by pressing the slide release on an empty chamber, then yes, you may very well be damaging the gun.

[MGySgt]

Even though the hammer does not follow when working with dummy rounds - when fired it can.

To test for this.

Load dummy round in mag
Then load live round in mag
Inset mag in pistol
work slide to chamber live round
Fire live round
Did the hammer follow the slide when it picked up the dummy round?
If yes - take to a compatent gunsmith
If not - repeat test at least 10 times.
If at any time the hammer follows the slide
Quit shooting it and take it to a compatent gunsmith,

I had a Colt Gold Cup go full atuo on me one time. Afterwards the owner said 'It does that once in awhile. I punched his lights out!

Any pistol going full auto is an acident just waiting to kill or maime someone. By the time you realize what happened - the gun is empty and you don't know where all those rounds went. They diffentely did not all hit the target or even the backstop.

[BD]

You guys are certainly more careful of your 1911's than I am. While it is true that dropping the slide on an empty chamber can ruin a fine bullseye trigger job, and it's not something I'd recommend doing to pass the time, the idea that it damages the gun beyond that is a bit of a stretch IMHO. I shot various disciplines of action pistol over about a 15 year period. The range command, "show clear and holster" led to virtually every competitor dropping the slide on an empty chamber and reholstering at the end of every string, irregardless of the design of the pistol, 1911s included. At a rough guess, I'd say I've dropped the slide and reholstered my 5" 1911 about 700 times. This year I decided that gun was getting a little sloppy after 70,000 rounds and decided to go over it closely and put some parts in it. Bushing, link and pin, fp stop, ejector and another extractor. No damage to the frame or barrel lugs at all. In fact the barrel looks good as new.

I had put an Ed Brown Hardcore extractor in it when it was new. That extractor never broke, but the tip is worn down to the nub and there's a groove worn into the tip slot behind the hook. I'm gonna send it back and see if they'll honor the "lifetime guarantee":)

I currently don't own any 1911s that are strictly "range" guns, or "target" guns. A 1911 trigger that breaks at 3 or 4 pounds is fine with me. It's the cleanness of the break that I care about more than some ultra light weight. I'd hate to shoot myself in the foot just because I was wearing gloves one day. This is just my own opinion, but if I had one in which the trigger would follow the slide under any condition I'd be changing that trigger and sear immediately.

BD

[9.3X62AL]

My agency's curriculum in the autopistol handling and firing regimen is to avoid uncontrolled slide motion when not feeding a cartridge--and to allow free slide travel when the pistol IS cycling ammo. ALL AUTOPISTOLS. Same story as to all cartridge feeding being from the magazine. ALL AUTOPISTOLS WERE DESIGNED WITH THIS IN MIND. I dunno if or how much damage gets done by bypassing this regimen, but I doubt that much good results from such departures.

[August]

We shoot "Wild Bunch" competitions with 1911 pistols.

It is very common on "tuned" pistols for people to experience hammer falls. Really messes up their stage times.

Lots of guys leave the match and point their car toward the gunsmith's office.

[CJR]

In my view, hammer follow-through on 1911s can be caused by more than a misadjusted/light sear spring. When it happens, the following needs to be checked:
1. hammer and sear pins may be loose in frame. The hammer should not move laterally. If it does, worn/undersized hammer & sear pins may need replacing.
2. pin hole in hammer may be oversized.
3. disconnector may have worn down in length and may be shorter than spec. and needs to be replaced.
4. pin hole in sear may be sloppy and sear may need to be replaced.
5. sear tip may be chipped and may need replacing.
6. hammer engagement surface may be chipped and hammer may need to be replaced.
7. frame pin holes may need to be bushed if oversized pins are still loose in the frame..

If the hammer & sear pins or hammer are sloppy, during recoil the hammer/sear engagement geometry will vary each time the hammer resets. This will cause the trigger pull to vary and safety/follow-through will be an issue. Whatever you or someone else does to this piece, when you check it out with live ammo ALWAYS load one dummy round and then one live round into the mag. As someone mentioned earlier, check to see if the hammer followed on the dummy round. If it did, stop shooting and get it checked-out again. Many, many years ago I once had a 1911 go full auto when the disconnector had worn down below its spec. length. I don't believe there's any gun faster than a 1911 in full auto. Once that happens you become really anal about gun safety and checking all gun parts during cleaning.

Best regards,

CJR

[Gary Carter]

It probably doesn't have quite enough spring tension on the sear. I've also seen ultra-light triggers cause this. If you're not comfortable adjusting the leaf spring then by all means have it done by someone familiar with 1911s. As mentioned before, don't drop the slide on an empty chamber, it looks cool on TV but those clowns don't have to pay for their own guns.

Springfield even states in the owner manual for the 1911, that allowing the slide to drop on an empty chamber will damage the gun.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I helped a friend cure his 1911 that had the same problem of the hammer following the slide. He had put a after market 4 finger spring into his pistol. We put the factory spring back in and the problem stopped happening. Some things require a trained gunsmith to adjust, not just throw in and expect to work great.Robert

[7br]

Got to the range today. Loaded one round in a magazine and let the slide go home. No Slam Boom. Loaded another round in magazine and re inserted it. Squeezed the trigger and got boom and not boom-boom. Ran three magazines through it without a hickup. Prints a group about the size of my palm at 10 yards with the standard GI sights. I think I am going to like this gun.

[hicard]

I had a brand new Browning Hi-Power do that and I ended up with a hole in my bedroom floor when I loaded a live round from the magazine into the chamber. I checked and sure enough, the hammer dropped with the slide most of the time. I promptly took it back for a replacement.