Opening up the neck in a FL die?

[rayg]

The cases in my Berthier's 8mm N chamber opens up the necks to .340 ID dia. when fired. The FL die necks them back down to .325 or .015 smaller.
I shoot a .330 Lee cast bullet and for a good fit the case neck should be about .330 ID or .005 more then the.325 the FL die neck sizes them down to.
Can the neck portion in the FL die be opened up from .325 to .330 so the case necks have less to reduce so the brass don't get worked so much? Has anyone done it?

I've opened up several Lee bullet sizers to larger diameters but not tried the neck in the FL die, Ray

[jonk]

In theory you could, but I just swapped the expander for one from their 8X56R set; opens it up to .329.

[rayg]

Thanks Jonk, yes that would open it back up to the .329 dia but that doesn't cure the problem that the case has to be overworked by reducing the neck a whole .015 from the .340 fired dia to the .325 FL die dia first. I was just thinking by opening up the FL neck it might help save the brass by only having to reduce the neck .010 and also giving me the correct .330 dia I need.
The Lee 8mm Lebel dies are designed to use .323 bullets and not the .327.5 Lebel bullets.

If it can't be done, I will order the .329 expander as you suggested, Ray

[rhbrink]

It can be done, I had the same exact problem with a 7.62 X 54. I was seriously over working the brass that is hard to come by and ain't cheap either. The only problem you might have is that you might remove enough metal to get through the hardened surface of the die. A guy named David Wilson did mine he can be reached at fc60net@comcast.net I think that he charged $25.

[rayg]

Thanks rhbrink, but Yonk made me think about getting a .329 expander and I thought that possibly in the future I might want to shoot regular .323 jacketed bullets and if I opened up the FL dia to the .330 dia. they would be too loose. So I ordered the expander from Lee. Ray

[rhbrink]

That is a problem with opening up the neck of the die. I figured that someday I would run across another sizing die cheap and buy that just in case I would want to use jacket stuff probably never happen but you never know.

[rayg]

Here is a unique idea that was posted in response to my question on Gunboards.
Quote: "You could also use a Lee bullet sizer (closest size) and lap out to the size you need your neck OD needs to be for the best fit on your cast bullet You just wont be pulling the neck back through a expander ball"

I measured the neck OD of a .330 ID case and it was about .341. I checked with Lee and the bullet sizers jump from .329 to .356. I think to enlarge .015 in the .329 die might be a bit too much but don't doubt that it probably could be done. I have to keep that idea in mind, Ray

[mike in co]

ok go to the benchrest world.
have the die opened for .5 dia od neck bushings and pick a size...

common practice..

mike in co

[rhbrink]

ok go to the benchrest world.
have the die opened for .5 dia od neck bushings and pick a size...

common practice..

mike in co

That was my original plan but couldn't find anyone to do it. Do you have any names or contacts?

[JeffinNZ]

I have to open up the die neck on my Carcano FL die. The factory default sizes brass to accomodate .264 bullets but I shoot .269 projectiles. Over working the brass something shocking.

[SciFiJim]

ok go to the benchrest world.
have the die opened for .5 dia od neck bushings and pick a size...

common practice..

Could you explain this in more detail? I am still kind of new to all of this and I have trouble picturing this.

[mike in co]

in several mags there are ad's newlon carmichael.....

but i have asked for a list from the br guys at benchrest central...you might search on 6mmbr.com


mike in co

i'll be back later........

[Nrut]

rayg,
Buckshot here on this forum makes a neck sizer die with bushings..
Works slicker than snot...

[nanuk]

does Buckshot have a link?

[geargnasher]

Two routes: Sinclair International is an example of one.

The other is 400 grit emory paper, a split dowel rod, any kind of light oil, and an electric drill.

I recommend getting Lee dies to lap out, and go to Lee's website to find dimensions of expander stems for other calibers and buy turn to the size you need with the drill and sandpaper. Works for me in three bottleneck rifle calibers. Sometimes I need to FL resize for use in different guns but all have a common neck size need, so honing a standard FL die is the cheapest option.

Gear

[Nrut]

does Buckshot have a link?
No he doesn't..
You have to PM him..

[rayg]

It can be done, The only problem you might have is that you might remove enough metal to get through the hardened surface of the die. .

To be honest I probably won't be shooting the Berthier much so I don't want to spend more money then I already have in the dies and a mould.
It'll be working the brass a lot by taking the fired case necks down about .020 in the FL die and then back up again with the expander I just ordered. But I'm not anticipating that I'll be shooting the rifle that much were that will be much of a problem and I can probaly live with that and if I have to, I'll aneal the cases once in a while.
I might try the drill option Gear mentioned as I probably only want to open up the FL neck die about .005, just enough to lessen the working of the brass a little and were the neck dia would still hold a .323 Jacketed bullet.

Does anyone know how thick that hardened surface is mentioned by rhbrink? I wouldn't want to ruin the die. Ray

[rhbrink]

Could you explain this in more detail? I am still kind of new to all of this and I have trouble picturing this.

SciFiJim this is taking a normal full length resize die and machine out the top of the die for a bushing. Look a Saeco Bushing dies, RCBS and Wilson both make similar dies. Great for the brass as that you don't oversize the brass and then expand to back out for proper boolit tension. Benchrest shooters have been doing this for years. The bushings come in .001 inch increments so you can get the brass and boolits fit just perfect. Little suckers ain't cheap though.

[rhbrink]

rayg, don't know for sure but would guess that it would be in the range of .004 to .005 could be a little more or a little less?

[Nobade]

I have used the carbide tipped ceramic drills ground to the size I wanted, and carbide tipped reamers from MSC for this. You still need to drill it a hair undersize and polish it to final size, but it does work. I recently turned a set of Lee 7mm Rem Mag dies into 375 Taylor dies this way, with the masonry drills from Home Depot.

[WineMan]

I always see the references to "working the brass" as a real negative to reloading. I know that the metallurgy of brass (and most metals but lead) causes them to become hard and brittle as they are flexed. Brass punches can become harder than steel after repeated use and even scratch steel surfaces. Of course annealing can mitigate the work hardening to a certain extent (another subject with plenty of back and forth for sure).

I would say that with very few exceptions (rare calibers, custom made brass etc.) we have all got our money's worth out of most cases when they go to the big recycling plant in the sky. Getting five or six reloads out of case seems like a fair deal to me. Heck, many of us take advantage of free range brass and then we are money ahead. Now there are rifles that benefit from less working, the SMLE III's and IV's come mind but that is the head and not the neck. At a recent CMP vintage rifle match the usual winner had a head separation in his 6.5x55. These are full power loads and he said it had been loaded 18 times. The outcome was that it was during the rapid section and his second shot. He lost 80 points (his first and the separated shot were 10's) and $20 in prize money.

Then again this is a hobby and obsession for fun and not profit. The joy of figuring out a way to increase the fun and save a buck is all part and parcel of this sport. My two cents that for a seldom shot rifle, a regular die, wider expander and a bit of propane every fourth time would work as well as a $70 bushing die for a military rifle.

Wineman

[rayg]

Then again this is a hobby and obsession for fun and not profit. The joy of figuring out a way to increase the fun and save a buck is all part and parcel of this sport. My two cents that for a seldom shot rifle, a regular die, wider expander and a bit of propane every fourth time would work as well as a $70 bushing die for a military rifle.

Wineman

Well put WineMan.
Well my expander from Lee just arrived today and I have twenty recently fired cases to try it out on. If I know me, I'll probably leave the die as it is for awhile and then I won't be able to stand it and will try opening up the die
I may email Lee to see how deep the hardness runs in the neck portion. Ray

[leadman]

Hornady lists a 338 die that sizes to .336". Maybe they could sell you one that is undersized.

[mike in co]

one
Contact Neil Jones, Custom Products.
814-763-2769 17217 Brookhouser Rd. Saegertown Pa. 16433

two
Jim Carstensen-JLC. Seems like it was $50 last time I had one done, including return postage. The email address I have for him is: jlcprec AT netins.net

and
buckshot( i guess i did not know)