SWC in a 1911, does it work?

[jlmomaha]

hello im looking at getting 454423 mihec mold ill be shooting in a 1911 and a taurus tactical and perhaps a G-21 later in life, please give me advice..
Thanks guys

[462]

I shoot the very popular Lyman 200-grain 452460 SWC. You might need a heavier recoil spring for that heavy boolit, though.

[jlmomaha]

that is in a 1911?, also may I inquire on the manufacturer, mine is a cita

[btroj]

I would suggest a lighter bullet. While a 454423 can be used in a 45 ACP it is not always an easy fit. I tend to stay with a 200 swc or a 230 tc/RN. I like to feed my 1911 what it likes and these fit that bill. I think of using a 250 gr swc as being more of a specialty loading. I am sure someone here will have load suggestions, I know it has been discussed here before. Did you try the search function?

[jlmomaha]

I tried and failed horribly bt, lol.. I will try again, Im not too internet savvy lol..

[HangFireW8]

I used to have an fancy "Competition" 1911, throated, comped, guide rod, big sights, the whole nine yards. Couldn't shoot SWC worth a darn. Even the Hornady jacketed SWC was a loss.

Got an old Colt, no mods, no problem.

So, a lot depends on the gun.

[35remington]

You're shooting a bullet intended for a revolver through an automatic. While this isn't exactly the same as putting a square block in a round hole, it's sorta close.

The profile of the bullet is wide, flat, and when seated to chamber, the overall length of the round is rather short.

This means:

You must reduce charges noticeably over what is appropriate for a 230 grain bullet due to this deep seating and;

The bullet doesn't glance off the feed ramp or the top of the chamber very well on the way into the barrel.

Usually, a early release SWC magazine of the Chip McCormick type with straight rear feed lips does about as well as can be expected with this very, very nonstandard design. Breakover and extractor pickup need to coincide with when the cartridge is pointing its way down the barrel. A little late and you'll get three point jams. If using tapered lip magazines try the seven shot type Colt distributes with its pistols. These have the dimple and release about at that point. If the gun three points it's releasing a little too late. That, or the bullet is striking the barrel ramp low.

I'd suggest 5.0 Unique to start, and try for about 750-800 fps as a good working load. This may require fiddling with the charge until you wind up where you want to be.

If your gun doesn't like this bullet too much despite your efforts, don't condemn it as faulty. 1911's weren't meant to feed everything, and this shape and overall length are pushing its design limitations.

Now you'll have all kinds of guys chime in here and say it works for them, and it very well may, but just be aware you're swimming upstream a little bit.

If you're purchasing this mould with the express intent of using it exclusively in an automatic pistol you're purchasing the wrong design.

Sorry.......but it had to be said.

The HG 68 pattern SWC is more attuned to a 1911. The 452423 is not. The Glock may not like it either.

[jlmomaha]

ok im not gonna get it now, I dont want to spend money on something ill not be able to use..

[462]

"...may I inquire on the manufacturer..."

Randall.

[jlmomaha]

citadel

[Big Boomer]

Like 35Remington says ... your mileage may vary. May or may not work if it has a flat nose.

However, I found that an LBT 220 gr. LFN cast boolit gives great accuracy in a Chas Daly and a Dan Wesson Pointeman II, especially the latter.

With anything weighing 200 to 230 grs., try 4.5 to 4.8 grs. of Bullseye. That load was made for the .45 ACP. But work up, as always. Good luck. 'Tuck

[Shakey Jakey]

Look at the H&G 68 and its many clones. Absolutely the most popular bullet in the 1911.

[wingnut49b]

I will add another vote for the HG68 clone. Mihecs mold that I have is a work of art. Makes this newbie look like a champ!

Shooting it from a RIA 1911 tactical is cheap and accurate. I like it.

[MtGun44]

While the H&G 68 is the gold standard for function in 1911s, the 452460 has been a bit more accurate
for me. The 452423 will feed fine in my 1911s, but as 35 Rem says, it is Elmer Keith's .45 ACP
revolver boolit design. IIRC several gun writers have reported using the 452423 very
successfully for years as a 1911 boolit.

Bill

[David2011]

The 454423 Mihec really is better suited for a Colt SAA or Ruger Blackhawk than an autoloader. It's a little heavy for the 1911 so it may be pretty tough on other designs. My favorite .45 SWC is an old 4 cav Saeco 200 gr SWC. I think it's very similar to the H&G 68. It will shoot at 640-650 fps reliably with a properly tuned 1911 which means you have minimal ejection and re-chambering forces. With a heavier recoil spring the same boolit is good for full house .45 ACP loads. I had to radius the bottom of the feed ramp a LITTLE to keep it from doing 3 point jams which is a very normal procedure. I just used Cratex abrasive rubber points and a Foredom tool. The barrel was a new one that had no radius transition from the feed ramp portion of the barrel to the chamber; just a sharp corner. Once the tiny radius was adequate it no longer shaved or cut into the brass and has fed flawlessly ever since. The meplat is smaller and the geometry is very different from the revolver boolit. It looks to me like getting the Mihec to feed would be a real struggle.

Good luck!

David

[MiHec]

You should look for this one - HG#68


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=96920

[Guesser]

I have a Norinco 1911A1 that will feed reliably everything that will fit in the magazine, 155 gr. SWC to 255 gr. Remington swaged conical nose, concave based bullets designed for 45 Colt. As long as I stay in the designed pressure parameters it will work reliably with any and all, mix and match.
My Colt LWE Commander is a little bit picky, it will work with most anything except the long nosed 185/200 gr. SWC, such as the Lee designs and the type most commercial casters produce. It loves the Lyman 452460 and the RCBS copy.

[Dave C.]

Many times it is the magazines that determine if a bullet feeds or not in a
1911.

Dave C.

[casterofboolits]

+2 on the H&G #68 200 grain SWC and it's clones. I've put a couple hundred thousand of these thru 1911's over the last twenty five years.

[StrawHat]

Read this.

http://www.sixguns.com/crew/cba.htm

It seems to work well.

[Larry Gibson]

There's probably a bajillion SWCs shot through thousands of M1911 type handguns every year. They've been doing that for many, many years. Most new M1911s come already throated for them and the new magazines have the lips adjusted or made for them to feed reliably.

I've not had to throat a M1911 for over 20 years for it to feed SWCs with absolute reliability. Most often, these days a feed problem with SWCs is magazine related, especially when old surplus magazines are used. For example; the P14 I got a couple years ago when I retired had a ramp on the barrel and SWCs would ham on the ramp becuse they were hitiing it at too sharp and angle. I simple bent the front of the magazine lips up a bit to allow a shallower angle. I've ovr 1000 rounds through the P14 now using all 5 magazines without a single malfunction. I used commercial 205 SWCs of H&G design and Lee 195 gr SWCs. Back in my IPSC days ('70s) there wasn't a lot of after market accessories like magazines available. I modified, as did many shooters, the lips of surplus mags to the same configuration as Colt Commander magazines. They fed SWCs in many unthroated M1911s and in throated ones were absolutely reliable. I still have the 15 magazines I altered and they feed SWCs in every Commander and M1911 I've put them in and it has been quite a few I had 83 M1911A1s in my arms vault and shot every one of them on the armory's indoor range using those magazines and SWCs of various make and design. Feeding was 100% on all except 3 really beat up ones. When I tightened the slides on those 3 they also fed SWCs just fine, especially the H&G #68 nose style.

Larry Gibson

[Char-Gar]

I have been shooting 452423 in the 1911 autopistol for 50 years and continue to do so. Because I do it, doesn't mean it is the best choice for everybody. It certainly isn't the place for someone new to the pistol and round to start. There are a few issues with this bullet that you don't have with more traditional designs bullets. 452423 was designed by Elmer Keith for use in the 45 Auto Rim case. Depending on the alloy it will weight between 235 and 245 grains.

1. The heavier weight means a longer bullet that will reduce powder capacity, thereby increasing pressure above the same powder charge with a shorter bullet.

2. There is not much reliable pressure tested data available for this bullet in the 45 ACP case.

3. Some pistols won't feed this bullet without modification.

4. There is the issue of increase recoil with the heavier than nominal bullet, requiring a heavier recoil spring and other issues.

5. The heavier bullet may very well give POI issues with fixed sights.

A bullet such as Hensley & Gibbs 68 (or a clone) or Lyman 452460 (my favorite) are better choices for the guy starting out with cast bullet in the 1911 autopistol.

On the upside, 452423 will work and works well if you deal with the issues. The large meplat makes it very effective on game. I have killed several deer with the bullet in a Colt Gold Cup. I think it would also take the starch out of a bad guy intent of doing harm. It also is just great for the 45 Auto Rim cartridge. It also does a good job in the 45 Colt round if the range is 100 yards or less.

Your money...your choice. Below is a pic of my brush pistol and ammo loaded with 452423.

[philzilla]

this is good to know

[DougGuy]

I have a Gubmint model that gobbles the 452423 without issue. The barrel has been throated you WILL need a barrel with a decent throat. The other thing you have to have is a slide stop that doesn't get knocked up by the boolit an lock the gun up. After that, 6.0gr Unique rock and roll this LSWC in a 1911!

[NavyVet1959]

I've had 1911s that would only feed round nose bullets and one that would even feed an empty piece of brass. It's going to depend on your particular gun.

[Shiloh]

Does for me. 200 gr. SWC H&G 68 clone.

Shiloh