How much superhard to add?

[WM5L]

So I want to make some hard bullets for a 44 mag. I got WW ingots running out my a$$. I want to make 10 pounds of alloy. How much Superhard alloy do I add to my WW (in pounds or ounces) to get 10 lbs (total of all the metals) of something close to Saeco "10" or 22 BHN? I guess I could water quench them to make them even harder if they are on the soft side. I just need to get close. I can tweak it from there. For some reason my math skills have left me. Getting old sucks.

[BeemerMark]

Depends what "Superhard" alloy is an alloy of.

[WM5L]

Depends what "Superhard" alloy is an alloy of.

I am going to guess you never been to rotometals web site?
http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/30_antimony_70_lead.htm

[white eagle]

I made the hardball alloy with equal amounts of lino/lead
also you can make Lyman #2 by using 6#ww with 4# of lino
they are 16 and 15 bhn respectively
and like you say w/q them to get the harder alloy

[WM5L]

I am thinking 2.25 lbs WW to 1 lb of Superhard then and an pinch of tin should get me close? That would be 2.95 lbs lead and .3 lbs SH add a little tin say .2lbs and I would have 3 pounds of alloy. Triple that that for 9lbs and start casting? Is my math or theory wrong? Sounds like a lot of tin to me?

[WM5L]

I don't have any Linotype. All I bought was Superhard, Antimony shot and tin


I made the hardball alloy with equal amounts of lino/lead
also you can make Lyman #2 by using 6#ww with 4# of lino
they are 16 and 15 bhn respectively
and like you say w/q them to get the harder alloy

[lwknight]

I am thinking 2.25 lbs WW to 1 lb of Superhard then and an pinch of tin should get me close? That would be 2.95 lbs lead and .3 lbs SH add a little tin say .2lbs and I would have 3 pounds of alloy. Triple that that for 9lbs and start casting? Is my math or theory wrong? Sounds like a lot of tin to me?

That would probably be more tin that you would need.
2.25 WW and .2 tin with 1 SH equals 6-10.5-83.5 ( tin/SB/lead)

I'm guessing that the WWs are clip-on type and the stick on WWs are just called lead

I would think that about half the amount of tin would make a nice alloy with the 10% antimony.

Hardball is 2-6-92 and linotype is 4-12-84. Do you see a pattern?
Popular alloys generally have about 1 tin to 3 antimony regardless of the lead balance.

[WM5L]

Yes on the clip on WW. All I need now are some good scales and a charged battery for my sawzall....Jim


That would probably be more tin that you would need.
2.25 WW and .2 tin with 1 SH equals 6-10.5-83.5 ( tin/SB/lead)

I'm guessing that the WWs are clip-on type and the stick on WWs are just called lead

I would think that about half the amount of tin would make a nice alloy with the 10% antimony.

Hardball is 2-6-92 and linotype is 4-12-84. Do you see a pattern?
Popular alloys generally have about 1 tin to 3 antimony regardless of the lead balance.

[lwknight]

Sawzall? You can break the superhard with a sharp hammer smack.
Weigh and calibrate the tin so you can melt off just what you need
or cast it into small ingots like 240 grain bullet shaped ingots.

[Matt_G]

Here is an article on this that you should read.
http://www.lasc.us/SuperHard.htm

[WM5L]

Well I made a batch with my formula and it is VERY hard. Saeco 13-14 witch is about 35 BHN! Think I will add some more lead and try again ha ha! I am thinking I would like about 25 BHN. I dont want a steel bullet just a hard one that wont lead the barrel but yet still deform just a little in large game.



PS Water quenching some of them made no major difference in hardness as far as my Saeco tester could tell. What is up with that?

[WM5L]

Thanks for the info but I already saw it. There are no hard recipes listed there that I can find. The stuff I made tonight is WAY, WAY harder than anything I see on that page unless I overlooked something....Jim



Here is an article on this that you should read.
http://www.lasc.us/SuperHard.htm

[WM5L]

I might try that hammer thing on the Superhard. About 2 inches of a tin ingot is just about the weight I needed. I just take a sharp chisel and wack it with a 3lb hammer on the anvil. Cuts it real clean.


Sawzall? You can break the superhard with a sharp hammer smack.
Weigh and calibrate the tin so you can melt off just what you need
or cast it into small ingots like 240 grain bullet shaped ingots.

[Matt_G]

Assuming you are using clip on WW's and assuming they are 3% Sb and 0.25% Sn,
this should get you close.

6 lbs. of WW (2.88 ounces of Sb at 3% and .25 ounces of Sn)
3.5 lbs Superhard (16.8 ounces of Sb)
6 ounces of tin.

That will give you a batch just 2 ounces short of 10 lbs that will be roughly the equivalent of linotype which is 22 BHN. ( 84% Pb, 12% Sb, 4% Sn)
It will actually be a bit heavy on the Antimony and a touch light on the Tin.

[lwknight]

To break superhard into smaller pieces , lay it on the dirt and whack it very swiftly with a light weight hammer. The hammer should be lighter than what you are trying to break.
Otherwise its like punching a fly. Nothing happens to the fly unless you trap him.
I find that a 12 oz ball peen hammer is most excellant.

[Boolseye]

I would say a pound of superhard to 9 lbs of WW would easily get you in the ballpark, 'specially if you water quenched 'em. WW are up around 15 on their own...superhard is like bhn 40 or something.
Them gonna be some hard boolits

Ohh...I see Matt G actually did the math. May wanna listen to him...I just wing it, like my cookin'8-)

[WM5L]

I am gonna try 2.75lbs of ww and 1lb SH and 2oz tin. I think my WW are pretty hard cause that last batch was REAL hard. Way harder than the math predicted.





I would say a pound of superhard to 9 lbs of WW would easily get you in the ballpark, 'specially if you water quenched 'em. WW are up around 15 on their own...superhard is like bhn 40 or something.
Them gonna be some hard boolits

Ohh...I see Matt G actually did the math. May wanna listen to him...I just wing it, like my cookin'8-)

[Boolseye]

I am gonna try 2.75lbs of ww and 1lb SH and 2oz tin. I think my WW are pretty hard cause that last batch was REAL hard. Way harder than the math predicted.

Wait...you're going to add superhard to wheelweights at better than 1 to 3? This batch is gonna be real hard, too. I think a little goes a long way with that stuff...I don't see why you'd need add any to wheelweight alloy, unless you're going for high velocity rifle boolits, like, over 2200 fps. Even out of a rifle that .44 mag is only going to be around 1500 fps...nowhere near fast enough to justify a sky-high bhn. Even without a gas check, wheelweight alloy should be fine as-is. I'd reserve your superhard for when you've got pure lead you need to harden up.

[cbrick]

Here is an article on this that you should read.
http://www.lasc.us/SuperHard.htm


Thanks for the info but I already saw it. There are no hard recipes listed there that I can find. The stuff I made tonight is WAY, WAY harder than anything I see on that page unless I overlooked something....Jim

You are correct, there are no recipes listed there anywhere near as hard as your looking for and for very good reason . . . The BHN range your looking for is much too hard for practical cast bullets. I believe you mentioned in this post that you would like some expansion in game. I can assure you that by attempting to harden your alloy this much by the use of antimony that you will get zero expansion, none, nada. What you will get is an extremely brittle bullet.

Do not fall into the "Hard Cast" or "Harder is better" trap, it simply is not true and can cause many more problems than it could possibly cure.

Rick

[onesonek]

Well I made a batch with my formula and it is VERY hard. Saeco 13-14 witch is about 35 BHN! Think I will add some more lead and try again ha ha! I am thinking I would like about 25 BHN. I dont want a steel bullet just a hard one that wont lead the barrel but yet still deform just a little in large game.



PS Water quenching some of them made no major difference in hardness as far as my Saeco tester could tell. What is up with that?

You received a lot of good pointers here from the guys that have far more experience than I. I also have learned a great deal from them!
As for some deformation or expansion,,,,I agree, you won't get any at a BHN of 25,, or likely even above a BHN of 15-17 at .44 mag velocities.
If it were me, I would enough SH and just a tad extra tin to the WW's for roughly a BHN 14 which ain't alot of either, and see how they act. If you desire harder afterwards, I think heat treating can be controlled in smaller bhn increments
Or I would just use straight WW's and heat treat from there to desired hardness.
Then save the SH for alloying pure as suggested earlier.

As for your PS,,,, I'm guessing you did a hardness test shortly after quenching,,,,they still need up to a month to age

[lwknight]

PS Water quenching some of them made no major difference in hardness as far as my Saeco tester could tell. What is up with that?

It will not make much if any difference at the casting time.
Check then again in a few days and a few weeks.

[leadman]

I have shot rifle bullets to 3,000 fps with 22BHN bullets with great accuracy and no leading.
I shoot most of my 41 Magnum revolver bullets at 14BHN, along with rifle bullets to 1,700 to 1,800 fps with great results to 200 yards.

Try dropping one of thos 35bhn bullets on the concrete and see what happens.

[Ole]

22BHN from clip on wheel weights should be easy.

Just water drop them and call it a day.

[bigjake]

I've been using straight WW's water dropped w/lee liquid alox on max loaded 44 mag 240 gr. bullets. Not a bit of lead in the barrels of the redhawk or 29.
I'd do what boolseye said to do; save all the hard stuff for the pure lead you are sure to come across if you scrounge for lead like most of us do.
I have a friend that has 2000 lbs of those 100 lb ingots of pure. I'm not all that excited about it yet because its going to cost more to blend it into shape than what ive been spending on WW's. when the WW's dry up, then I will be paying him a visit. I'll have to figure out how to cut those huge ingots into usable chunks.