Lee FCD and Revolvers

[Tazman1602]

I've already written a couple of knowledgeable forum members this, but would like to get all the info I can. I have searched the forums and the internet both and this is what I'm thinking.

Long story short, I"m a .357 Mag guy and been working with a Ruger Vaquero to try to get acceptable accuracy with my cast bullets -- I got pretty good results with Lyman 358429's by trimming the cases back .125 and seating to the crimp groove, or by using full length brass and crimping on the forward edge of the front driving band......then decided.....

I've had OUTSTANDING luck with the Lee FCD and my big bore rifles so thought I'd try one for my .357..................and accuracy fell all to heck.

Looking at the pistol die vs. the rifle die it's a whole different concept. As I can see and from what I've read, the FCD for pistol ammo and that blasted carbide ring *may* be squashing my carefully sized pistol bullets down smaller than I need them to be in spite of the fact it puts a dandy crimp on the bullet --- can you confirm that?

I'm going to load up 100 or so tomorrow and go BACK to an extra bullet seater/crimp die from a standard Lee set (I have two so I can seat and crimp in two separate stations on my RL550....) and see if that cures the problems I've been having since I started using the FCD for .357 a couple of weeks ago.

Any input appreciated, like I said, the FCD for my big bore rifle stuff gives me really great accuracy, but the pistol die is a whole different ballgame when I look at it. I don't need my bullets sized/squashed as they are already the proper size, just wanted to get a nice even crimp on them as the factory crimp dies do to my rifle brass with the collets they use -- only the pistol dies don't have the collets.........

...........or maybe I can get that blasted carbide sizer ring out of the FCD and just use the crimp portion????? Any advice appreciated.

Many Thanks,

Art

[KYCaster]

Somewhere around here I have a 38/357 taper crimp die. Made by Lyman I think.

I got it way back when I was shooting a 357 wheel gun in IPSC. Properly adjusted, it made a very nice crimp that didn't bulge the case or let the case mouth hang up on the edge of the chamber when reloading on the timer. I could get a good crimp on the 9mm and 38 Super boolits with no crimp groove that I preferred. Worked on jacketed bullets with no crimp groove too.

I know lots of people swear by the LFC dies, but I just don't get it. If there's a problem with your ammo that doesn't allow it to chamber in your gun, then you need to identify the problem and correct it at the source. The one-size-fits-all approach doesn't make sense to me.

In a pinch you can use a 9mm sizing die with the decapping stem removed to taper crimp 38/357. Not real easy to get adjusted right, but will work.

Good luck.
Jerry

[outdoorfan]

I cut the carbide sizer out of my .45 die. Works great now.

[462]

Tazman1602,
Your experience is typical. Pull a boolit and measure it. A doughnut says it's been swaged to .357".

Use a conventional roll crimp die and seat and crimp in two seperate steps.

[Tazman1602]

That's what I thought I might do Outdoorfan. Going to test some today and see what gives then I think it's going to be a trip to the lathe to cut that ring out of the blasted die.

Man the *rifle* FCD works SO well I just thought I'd give the pistol die a try and it has not been a great deal.

...........me and my bright ideas...........................

Thanks guys.......


I cut the carbide sizer out of my .45 die. Works great now.

[Tazman1602]

Hey 462

I do indeed prefer to seat and crimp with two separate dies and two separate operations, just makes more sense to me. I am 90% certain this is what's happening as I can feel the entire case/bullet getting sized when I shove it up in that FCD.

What a great forum this is. If there's 1000 ways to screw up reloading a cartridge, chances are good 999 of them have been documented here..............

Thanks,

Art


Tazman1602,
Your experience is typical. Pull a boolit and measure it. A doughnut says it's been swaged to .357".

Use a conventional roll crimp die and seat and crimp in two seperate steps.

[462]

Tazman,
As you said, Lee's rifle collet crimp die does an excellent job, and I feel that their neck sizer dies do, too. However, their handgun dies caused me nothing but problems so I got rid of them.

[dla]

Has anyone actually gone to the trouble of pulling a bullet and measuring it?

[Dale53]

I have had great results using the Lee Factory Crimp die on cast bullet pistol and revolver cases. I shot .313" in the .32's, .358" in the .38/.357's, .430" in the .44's, and 452" in the .45's. I get NO sizing down of bullets. That, of course, will depend on what size your cast bullets are. If you need oversize, then it may be a problem for you.

Since I LOVE the finger adjustable crimping adjustment, if mine were causing a problem with sizing my bullets, I would just do what others here suggest, remove the carbide ring from the bottom of the die.

NOTE: If you pull a bullet from a completed round, I will guarantee that the crimp will reduce the bullet size screwing up your measurements. When you are checking, be sure you have the crimp backed off - that way when you pull the bullet you won't get a false reading. When the round is shot normally the "young" gas blasts the case mouth open so it doesn't affect bullet diameter the way it would if you pulled the bullet through a crimp. If you don't believe me, just do it both ways. Of course, bullet hardness can make a difference (really hard bullets might not be affected, I guess).

Dale53

[2shot]

Tazman;

I shoot NRA Bullseye and I sometimes use my S&W M-14 for the center fire portion and here's what I have found.
When using the 1911 every round goes through the Lee FCD and I have not had an alibi since doing this. I too figured that if it's good for my .45 acp it would be good for my revolver also. WRONG!!!!!!!! What I found out to work the best for me is to not re-size the cases at all. I de-cap, reprime, drop powder, seat bullet and crimp. If you are familiar with the Remington HBWC you know that it is quite a bit larger than .358, the base is almost .363 on most of mine. When I would use the FCD it would size the Rem HBWC down and I would get bad accuracy and lots of leading with a 2.8 grain load of BE. If I didn't size the cases accuracy was excellent with no leading. By not sizing the cases and using them in the same gun they were fired in I got the same effect as someone just neck sizing bottleneck rifle cartridges. My cases centered up much better unsized than sized in the cylinder which I'm sure contributes to accuracy. I will say that some of the cases loaded this way would not "drop into the cylinder and required a push with my thumb but it was never a very hard push. These were target loads so I don't know how many times you could not re-size with stiffer loads before you had to because of the case not entering the cylinder. Wouldn't matter much to find a tight case if your using the revolver for hunting or target shooting. If your using it for a CCW or self defense I would definatly use the Lee FCD for those loads.

Some people do it different that I and just re-size a portion of the case, not the full lenght. They feel that they get the same effect as I do with the web portion of the rim fitting the cylinder better and centering it but still have the mouth sized small enough to get a good hold on the bullets they are using ( mostly SWC or RN when shooting for their Distinguished Revolver badge). This works out for them and I have tried it too but I mostly shoot the Rem HBWC's so I don't want any portion of the case sized down. Either way it's done NO FCD for revolver with us.

[outdoorfan]

I thought I could lap the carbide out a bit with some every cloth. Wrong! It's hardened. I used my angle grinder to cut the whole lower portion of the die right off.

[Tazman1602]

Dale --

You are CORRECT. Even when crimping the bullet in the case it did NOT downsize the blasted bullet even when pulled with a kinetic puller. I did three of each this morning and they all still measured .359 that I size to when I pulled them............back to the drawring board.

I have some loaded with both FCD and standard crimp dies I just have to get up off my butt, get out in the cold, and shoot them to see if there is a diff or if I'm just a lousy revolver shooter................ok scratch that one, I already know the answer to that..................:violin:

Art

[RobS]

Funny thing is I think Lee may be listening. My Dad just started to reload for 45 auto and his Lee 4 dies set's factory crimp dies carbide ring is large enough to not touch the round upon entry of the carbide ring/die's mouth. Here is the more interesting part...........he sizes his to .454 for his ruger 45 auto. I asked him to pull a boolit to make sure it wasn't being swaged down during the seating process and he varified .454 after pulling.

My Lee 4 die set with the FCD I purchased years ago would swage the heck out of a .452 cast boolit yielding a .4505-.451 measurements after pulling. I also noted on their recent carbide case sizing dies the mouth of the carbide ring is more beveled vs their older dies as well which sure does make it nice with progressive presses. Now their case sizing dies are really close to a Dillon die regarding the mouth radius of the carbide ring.

[Dale53]

>>>Funny thing is I think Lee may be listening.<<<

That's good to hear. Manufacturers are often listening and can change things without fanfare.

Dale53

[KYCaster]

Funny thing is I think Lee may be listening. My Dad just started to reload for 45 auto and his Lee 4 dies set's factory crimp dies carbide ring is large enough to not touch the round upon entry of the carbide ring/die's mouth. Here is the more interesting part...........he sizes his to .454 for his ruger 45 auto. I asked him to pull a boolit to make sure it wasn't being swaged down during the seating process and he varified .454 after pulling.

My Lee 4 die set with the FCD I purchased years ago would swage the heck out of a .452 cast boolit yielding a .4505-.451 measurements after pulling. I also noted on their recent carbide case sizing dies the mouth of the carbide ring is more beveled vs their older dies as well which sure does make it nice with progressive presses. Now their case sizing dies are really close to a Dillon die regarding the mouth radius of the carbide ring.



DANG!! That's my biggest beef with Dillon....the "generous" radius on their sizing dies. The die doesn't come close to sizing all the way to the extractor groove. That sometimes can be a problem.

I always preferred the Lee sizing dies over Dillon. Now what am I gonna do?? :groner:

Jerry

[RobS]

DANG!! That's my biggest beef with Dillon....the "generous" radius on their sizing dies. The die doesn't come close to sizing all the way to the extractor groove. That sometimes can be a problem.

I always preferred the Lee sizing dies over Dillon. Now what am I gonna do?? :groner:

Jerry

Not to worry too much as the bevel on the carbide ring of Lee brass sizing die doesn't go in as far as on the Dillon; the bevel is shallower on the Lee's.

[Phillip]

If you are using a bullet seater and crip die combo with the LFC die, make shure that the bullet seater in the die is set to about 3/4 down in the die and use the dies threads to adjust your bullet seat hight.

It seems that the lee bullet seater/crimp die will still do a taper crimp if it set too deep.

[dragonrider]

I was having the same problem with 357 FCD die. My .360" boolits going in where coming out at .358". Pulled out the ring and after crimping the rounds would not chamber. So I put the ring back in and using my tool post grinder and a diamond bit on my lathe I ground the ID of the ring out .002", works like a charm now. Boolits that go into the case at .360" come out of the case at .360" even after crimping. I find that the problem is when putting a roll crimp on a case many times the case will bulge and this bulge is what you feel when pulling a case out of an FCD. The carbide ring is removing that bulge on the way out.

[44man]

My experience with a Lee FCD is that the brass is STAKED, shortens case life and the stakes can not open smoothly and that will size a boolit shot through the brass. Scraping lead through the stake marks can open gas channels.
You can do about the same with a center punch around the mouth.
A roll crimp will roll back open but if there is any crimp left on fired brass, you still sized the boolit.
Lead, even very hard, does not tolerate a hole it can not go through.
Young gas opening brass is a mistake, it can't happen. Brass does not open from gas pressure, only after boolit passage. Yet crimp can remain because only the boolit can iron out the crimp. Soft lead will not open a crimp.