Lewis Gun Photo

[Mike Venturino]

Gents: This is the photo of my Japanese Naval Type 92 Lewis Gun. Believe it or not my wife bought this for me in 2010. She bought another present for me at the same time but I'll show that one later.

MLV
http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr169/MLV1/photobucket001.jpg

[RugerFan]

Ohhh very nice! Now if we just had a video or you shooting it.

[Gunsmoke4570]

Dang! The way those handguns are staged reminds me of the shelves in my "gun closet"!

[scrapcan]

nice guns. can we see what is in the violin case?

[218bee]

Is that 7.7 caliber?
Damn my wife bought me new socks and a coffee pot

[Mike Venturino]

This is what is in the violin case whenever it leaves home with me. It is the M1 version made in '42.

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr169/MLV1/6-25-08135LargeWebview.jpg

Caliber for the Japanese Lewis Gun is 7.7x56mm Japanese rimmed. That's as opposed to the 7.7x58mm Japanese rimless or the 7.7x58mm Japanese semi-rimmed.

In actual fact the Japanese 7.7x56mm rimmed is no more and no less than .303 British.

MLV

[Jim]

A Chicago piano, baby!!

[Tazman1602]

Oh my word...............that gun is a DREAM for me. I'd give up food for a year and go on a liquid diet for that...........



This is what is in the violin case whenever it leaves home with me. It is the M1 version made in '42.

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr169/MLV1/6-25-08135LargeWebview.jpg

Caliber for the Japanese Lewis Gun is 7.7x56mm Japanese rimmed. That's as opposed to the 7.7x58mm Japanese rimless or the 7.7x58mm Japanese semi-rimmed.

In actual fact the Japanese 7.7x56mm rimmed is no more and no less than .303 British.

MLV

[scrapcan]

I was pretty sur what you would show us in that case. Just had to make sure you were not playing hte real fiddle!

[Mike Venturino]

Thanks guys, I won't tell you how many Colt SAAs, Winchester Lever Guns, and top break S&W revolvers I sold to buy that Thompson and a few other smgs.

MLV

[Arisaka99]

So im guessing you have your class 3? I want a KAC M110, and I wouldnt mind an AA12, but you cant buy those yet.

[Mike Venturino]

No Class 3 license. That's for people who actually deal in full-autos.

I own them on Form 4s as any private citizen can IF his state allows ownership and if the ATF's background check comes up clean.

MLV

[9.3X62AL]

Beautiful examples, sir. Some day, I need to move back to the USA from California.

[Screwbolts]

Does anyone know what country invented / or the Lewis gun was designed in?

Ken

[Mike Venturino]

Col. Lewis was an American, West Pointer, retired officer, etc. The U.S. Army wasn't interested in his machine gun but the Brits were in WW1 so BSA was the primary manufacturer over there.

There's a fascinating book about Lewis Guns named THE BELGIAN RATTLESNAKE full of all sorts of trivia about them.

MLV

[Mike Venturino]

I found a better photo of my Lewis gun. Note the enlongated trigger guard. That supposed to be the only difference between British and Japanese Lewis Guns but I don't know for sure - did the Japanese built them to Imperial dimensions or metic?

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr169/MLV1/photobucket005.jpg

And while I was at it I found a photo of the Thompson in the violin case right after I got it in 2008. By the way those violin cases are sold at Sportsman Warehouse labeled for Thompsons.

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr169/MLV1/photobucket006.jpg

MLV

[Landric]

I found a better photo of my Lewis gun. Note the enlongated trigger guard. That supposed to be the only difference between British and Japanese Lewis Guns but I don't know for sure - did the Japanese built them to Imperial dimensions or metic?

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr169/MLV1/photobucket005.jpg

And while I was at it I found a photo of the Thompson in the violin case right after I got it in 2008. By the way those violin cases are sold at Sportsman Warehouse labeled for Thompsons.

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr169/MLV1/photobucket006.jpg

MLV

Are you, by any chance, looking for a son? :)

[Mike Venturino]

Funny, I get asked that question a lot.........

MLV

[MtGun44]

Mike,

I have wondered at the barrel structure on the Lewis gun ground versions. From that pic,
I can see what looks like an aluminum finned piece hanging out of a sheet metal (?) shroud.
Is there some sort of extractor system using muzzle gasses to pull air thru for cooling?

From memory only, it seems like the WW1 aircraft guns had simple barrel assys, I assume that with
high speed airflow in aircraft, they could get away with it.

Bill

[Multigunner]

Mike,

I have wondered at the barrel structure on the Lewis gun ground versions. From that pic,
I can see what looks like an aluminum finned piece hanging out of a sheet metal (?) shroud.
Is there some sort of extractor system using muzzle gasses to pull air thru for cooling?

From memory only, it seems like the WW1 aircraft guns had simple barrel assys, I assume that with
high speed airflow in aircraft, they could get away with it.

Bill

The muzzle end of the barrel jacket acts as a venturi. Muzzle blast entering the cone and stepped down tube creates a vaccum that pulls air through the rear opening over the aluminum radiator fins.

Some old aircraft Lewisguns were converted for ground use by British Home Guard and shipboard AA use on merchantmen, without barrel jackets.

The pre WW1 US Machinegun trials revealed some serious flaws in the early production Lewisguns, otherwise it might have been adopted by the US.
The original guns were a bit flimsey, after being bounced around in the back of a truck on manuvers some were inoperable. Broken parts were also common.
When BSA began manufacture they greatly improved its durability.

[Mike Venturino]

In the book THE BELGIAN RATTLESNAKE there is quite a story about Col. Lewis and the general of the Ordnance Dept. being enemies from their days at West Point. That was supposed to be the main reason for the U.S. Army's disdain for the Lewis Gun. The general was supposedly censured by congress after World War I for his behavior.

Some .30-06 Lewis guns were bought by the Navy and Coast Guard. I've found one mention in books that on landing craft going into Guadalcanal in August 1942, there were Lewis guns mounted on them.

MLV

[Bull Schmitt]

Does your wife have any sisters??[smilie=1:

[Mike Venturino]

Bull: Yes but they are as different as night and day.

MLV

[MtGun44]

Multigunner,

Thanks, that was what it was looking like, trying to understand what I was seeing
with the fat bbl assy and apparent sheet metal exterior. I had wondered in museums where
the lighting is poor and gun is not fully visible if it was a water shroud, but Mike's
pic showed the finned aluminum piece and the light bulb went on.

Remember the scene at the end of "High Road to China" when Tom Sellick has landed his
Gypsy Moth and pulled off the Lewis gun and a spare mag (I think). He held off hoards of
attackers with it, finally saved at the end. After kissing the girl, he casually pulls the mag
and looks inside (we can't see inside) and a bit of a "OH, crud!" look just flickers across his
face like there were 5 rds left in the mag. Nice TINY little touch.

Mike - thanks for sharing the pix of these neat old guns. Most of us will never handle them and only
see them in museums, poorly lit in most cases. Good pix and stories from them that are shooting
them are very interesting.

Bill

[Multigunner]

Heres a couple of New York Times articles on the Lewis Gun Controversy.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10C16FF3F5F13738DDDA00994D1405B 868DF1D3

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10613F7395412738FDDA10994DA415B 868DF1D3

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20F1EFE3F5F13738DDDA10994D1405B 868DF1D3

The Lewisgun submitted for the 1913 Endurance test suffered 206 jams, 35 broken parts, and 15 parts not broken but requiring replacement.
The Benet-Mercier gun, suffered 59 jams, 7 broken parts, and no parts not broken that would require replacement.

Lewis actually never offered the gun to the US for free. Savage who held the manufacturing rights in the US offered the guns at a price not exceeding $1,000 per unit and offered licenced production rights at a $150 per unit royalty.

The Lewis gun failed the endurance tests so soundly that the War Dept withdrew it from consideration, the Ordnance Dept never had it under consideration till after BSA further developed the gun for British service.

PS
The original Lewisgun design was also unsuitable for rimless cartridges. To adapt it to the .30-06 a stop had to be added to limit forwards stroke of the bolt, otherwise it jammed the case far too deeply into the chamber.
The gun was also not sturdy enough for the pressure levels of the .30-06.
The redesigned Lewis in .30-06 weighed quite a bit more than the British .303 Lewisguns.

[Mike Venturino]

Good information, Multigunner, so far I hadn't come across any of that in THE BELGIAN RATTLESNAKE book.

MLV

[gnoahhh]

I had the opportunity to fire a Lewis gun (British), many years ago. Quite a treat. The owner went on to trade it in on a Maxim gun. (More in keeping with the German he portrayed in the WWI re-ennacting game.)

[doubs43]

I found a better photo of my Lewis gun. Note the enlongated trigger guard. That supposed to be the only difference between British and Japanese Lewis Guns but I don't know for sure - did the Japanese built them to Imperial dimensions or metic? MLV

I can't say WRT the Lewis Gun but the Japanese copied a Chevy truck so closely that engine and drive train parts were cannibalized by American GI's to repair our own military Chevy trucks during the Pacific campaign.

A good analysis of Japanese small arms is in the book "Shots Fired in Anger" by Lt.Col. George. However, I don't think the Japanese copy of the Lewis Gun is included.

[Mike Venturino]

doubs43: That Shots Fired In Anger is an excellent book and I've read the weapons parts many times. Since the Lewis gun was Japanese Navy I doubt if any of their Special Naval Landing Forces were on "the Canal" by the time John George got there, if any were ever there.

The SNLF was the primary enemy forces on Tarawa but I've not been able to find mention of Lewis guns there either.

I did come across one passage of a Marine (I think) saying that they were being fired on by Japanese troops with a Lewis Gun but I forgot to mark it down and now can't find it.

If any of you guys come across mentions of Japanese Lewis guns in action I'd sure like to hear about it.

MLV

[Shooter]

Mike,
You rule!
I am still using your .32 H&R Mag. Data From G&A.

[KCSO]

Well it's a better photo than the one in the latest American Handgunner! That squinty look and the sword make you look like an extra in an old war movie.

I have shot a number of Thompson's and they are fine shooters, but I really did better work with either a M3 or a PPSH. Just finished machining a receiver for a Thompson just like yours. I have never got to shoot a Lewis gun and am going to have to some day. I do have about 2000 bullets cast up for 303 though ????

By the way my wife gave me clothing for Christmas you must have been a MUCH better boy this year!

[Mike Venturino]

KSCO: You forgot to mention the helmet. I agree about the PPsh. They are something else. Pull the trigger just a bit and the brass comes tinkling down around your head for what seems a minute.

MLV

[WineMan]

The other movie that has some nice Lewis Gun cameos and also a BAR is the Sand Pebbles with Steve McQueen.

They were also used on British WWI aircraft. When forward firing it was on a flexible mount (the SE5A comes to mind). This allowed the magazine to be changed (no easy task I am sure), clear jams, fire over the propeller without a synchronization device and also to shoot vertically for Zeppelin attacks.

Wineman

[Combat Diver]

Mike,

That's one thing that I hate about my generation is that I can not bring back any war thropies like the guys did from WWII or Korea. The PPSh41s are found in large numbers in Iraq have always had the 71 rd drum mags. Never did see any 35 rd stick mags (out of about 100 PPSh's). No kidding about getting rained on by 7.62x25 brass. The Lewis gun is one of the few that I never got to play with.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/P5010011_PPSh_41_rz.jpg


I've have always enjoyed reading your articles, thanks.

[Multigunner]

doubs43: That Shots Fired In Anger is an excellent book and I've read the weapons parts many times. Since the Lewis gun was Japanese Navy I doubt if any of their Special Naval Landing Forces were on "the Canal" by the time John George got there, if any were ever there.

The SNLF was the primary enemy forces on Tarawa but I've not been able to find mention of Lewis guns there either.

I did come across one passage of a Marine (I think) saying that they were being fired on by Japanese troops with a Lewis Gun but I forgot to mark it down and now can't find it.

If any of you guys come across mentions of Japanese Lewis guns in action I'd sure like to hear about it.

MLV

Many Naval and aircraft Lewisguns were salvaged by the Japanese land forces from shot up aircraft and landing/supply barges and such.
US Marines also salvaged the flexible guns from shot up US Aircraft for ground use.
The "Stinger" was a Browning (AN2?) aircraft gun fitted with a sawn off Garand stock and used by Marines as a squad auto, its high rate of fire making it an awesome weapon for clearing out japanese positions.
The Germans also adapted many aircraft and naval weapons for ground use.

[NHlever]

When I was in Vietnam, there were two guys in my unit that stayed in Saigon to "obtain" things that our unit could use. When the Tet Offensive started in 68 they were there, and we were unable to get a convoy to Saigon because highway 13 wasn't secured at all, and things were pretty tense for much longer than most folks realize. Anyway, come May we thought we could run a convoy with a helicopter gunship escort, and we badly needed supplies so we got one together. I was one of the few "old timers" there who knew where these two guys were in Saigon so the CO asked me if I would pull them out if I could get to them with reasonable safety. It turned out that the guys were fine, and although we got ourselves in a bit of a firefight getting out, we did all get out safely. Anyway, the point of all this is that these two guys had "obtained" a Lewis gun, and had it on the roof of their apartment, and had used it with great effectivness on many occassions during the five months of conflict in the city. Some of the people that these two guys dealt with played pretty rough, and in the heatt of things it was sometimes hard to tell them from the VC. In fact I think the fire fight we found ourselves in was with a black market gang, and not regular VC, but I will never know that for sure. What I do know is that I am glad that day that they had the Lewis gun, and that it worked flawlessly. Just one more story in the long, and colorful history of that gun. One interesting thing about the Vietnam conflict is that war had been going on for so long there that one was apt to run into battle rifles from many different eras. The runway we used for example was built by American prisioners in WWII, and the buildings that were the Japanese prision camp where they were housed was just outside our "wire". Mike, I hope this adds a little color to your battle rifle adventures. My toys there were a "grease gun" and an M2 Carbine that was lots of fun, and "borrowed" from a nice VC lady.

[Mike Venturino]

NHlever: That is indeed an interesting story. You don't by chance remember exactly what caliber it might have been?

MLV

[doubs43]

There's a decent picture of a Lewis Gun being used in the trenches of WW1 on page 166 of Herbert McBride's "The Emma Gees".

[NHlever]

NHlever: That is indeed an interesting story. You don't by chance remember exactly what caliber it might have been?

MLV

Mike, I think it was a .303 British, but there were other things on our mind that day, and I was too tired to care by the time we got back to our firebase. They were firing the gun from an upstairs window, and I was pretty busy covering the front door of their place at ground level. Good thing for me the VC remembered me as being over 6' tall. :D That helped as I lay on the floor.I came home about 4 days later, and didn't see the gun again.

[Mike Venturino]

NHlever: I'm glad you got home at all! Thanks for the story.
Mike

[Multigunner]

I just looked up some .303 headstamps and found that China had manufactured a 7.7/.303 cartridge specifically for use in captured Japanese Lewsis guns.

I'd read long ago that the Chinese had salvaged thousands of Lewis guns from Japanese vessels scuttled in harbors or sunk by allied air raids and some of these were later used by the Red Chinese during the Korean War.

[doubs43]

I'd read long ago that the Chinese had salvaged thousands of Lewis guns from Japanese vessels scuttled in harbors or sunk by allied air raids and some of these were later used by the Red Chinese during the Korean War.

When the Communist Chinese gained control of mainland China in 1949, their arms were anything and everything they could get their hands on; a motley collection from ancient to modern for the time. They were desperate for arms and accounts I've read indicate that sometimes only limited numbers of an attacking force would be armed. When a man with a weapon went down, the next unarmed soldier picked up the weapon and continued the attack.

While primarily an account of the heroic fight by a company of Marines to keep the road open for the retreat from the Chosin Reservoir, the book "The Last Stand of Fox Company" is rich in accounts of the small arms used by the Chi-Coms as well as those used by our own troops. IIRC, the PPSh is thought by many to have been the best close combat weapon of that conflict.

[arjacobson]

This is what is in the violin case whenever it leaves home with me. It is the M1 version made in '42.

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr169/MLV1/6-25-08135LargeWebview.jpg

Caliber for the Japanese Lewis Gun is 7.7x56mm Japanese rimmed. That's as opposed to the 7.7x58mm Japanese rimless or the 7.7x58mm Japanese semi-rimmed.

In actual fact the Japanese 7.7x56mm rimmed is no more and no less than .303 British.

MLV

That is my all time favorite.. In all the ww2 history stuff I read they were very popular also... I like the military version better than the drum magazine type..Very cool firearm:-D

[MakeMineA10mm]

Thank you very much for the photos, Mike! Are you loading 303 to standard pressures (as in a SMLE) for that Lewis? Have you shot it much yet?? I'm seriously jealous!!

Here's a short clip from the Sand Pebbles and you can see the two Lewis guns on each end of the fly-bridge's wings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HrSylc6Yqg

There are a couple other scenes in that movie where the Lewis Guns are prominent, including one IIRC where they are being loaded and unloaded (with frustration due to not getting to use them) and another scene where they are used. I gotta get that on DVD!

[Von Dingo]

I saw the Sand Pebbles DVD around Christmas for $5.00, it almost came home with me.